Talk:Shinhwa discography

Fair use rationale for Image:Shinhwastateoftheart.JPG
Image:Shinhwastateoftheart.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 20:04, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Shinhwawinterstory20062007.JPG
Image:Shinhwawinterstory20062007.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:04, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Album covers on discographies such as this
Album covers on discographies such as this have routinely been removed beginning this past Spring. Album covers are permitted to be displayed on articles about those specific albums, such as Resolver (Shinhwa album). They are not permitted in discographies such as this. The parent policy on this is WP:NFCC, and Foundation:Resolution:Licensing policy. Also see WP:NFC. --Hammersoft (talk) 16:04, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * They were fine just being there before. Apparently everything isn't permitted anymore in Wikipedia.206.40.103.92 (talk) 02:08, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Discography style
This discography article requires some work regarding its style. Please check WP:DISCOGSTYLE to see how it should look. For example, I don't see a point in having the tracklists next to every album in the discography table, when they are clearly in the albums' own articles. On the other hand, the discography could use some chart positions (max. 10 charts in the table) and music certifications, if there are any for these albums. —  Ma y ast  ( talk ) 11:51, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Solo discography...
...does not belong here. I'll be moving them to their own articles shortly (for Minwoo and Hyesung) or just as parts of their main articles (probably for Andy, Junjin, Dongwan, Eric - based on how long they wind up). Shinyang-i (talk) 23:00, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Also, the Winter Story albums are not compilation albums, they are studio albums. Compilation albums are 1) previously-released works (like My Choice) or 2) a collection of tracks by people who don't usually work together. Shinyang-i (talk) 23:03, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Issues still to resolve
For anyone who can help, here are some situations I'd like additional guidance with. Some of these questions also apply to the in-progress Shinhwa videography, too: I think that's it for now. Thanks for any help. This will aid me on the other discographies I'm also working on. Thank you thank you! Shinyang-i (talk) 14:19, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Please ignore the lead(s) for now.  I haven't begun making any changes to it yet.  Right now I'm focusing on the article content, formatting, and referencing.
 * 2) Basically, there are some weird quirks and a history to Korea's record charts, and I don't want those to get in the way of this article possibly reaching a good status on Wikipedia.  I'm not sure if these issues are clear in the article and how much they need to be documented.  Many of these issues don't effect the one FL or the other decent kpop discographies because the artists' histories aren't long enough to be impacted much (or they are just done poorly and reviewing editors were none the wiser).
 * 3) Korea has had multiple record charts over its history. From Jan 1999 to Sept 2008, a single chart of releases was compiled monthly, half-yearly, and yearly by the RIAK.  A nearly-complete record of these charts are on archive.org.  Since 2010, the Gaon charts have been used, which are broken into digital and physical sales charts, released weekly/monthly/annually.  There are no publicly-available charts for the gap between them or the time before Jan 1999.  Also, Gaon has been inconsistent with its releases; such as for some months, instead of releasing actual sales numbers it releases "Gaon points" instead, whatever the heck that is; so albums that peaked during those months have no sales figures.  Billboard had a chart in Korea for a few years but it's been discontinued. (There are many other charts, but none meet Wikipedia standards - they're too limited and not public (Hanteo), they are single-vendor charts (Olleh, Soridaba, Bugs, etc), whatever.)
 * 4) Because of this history, I went ahead and specified the chart name in the header of each Korean chart column, even on tables using only one Korean chart. I thought it would be more consistent and less confusing this way.  Cool? Not cool?
 * 5) Gaon album chart records any physical audio release, regardless of whether it's an album, an EP, a maxi-single, whatever. They're all "albums" to Gaon.  Gaon digital chart records digital song sales.  It is not possible to buy an entire album digitally in Korea, so each song charts on Gaon individually.  Just FYI.
 * 6) Every kpop discography I've looked at does not make any of this clear and I've not seen a single one that fully references all chart placements and sales accurately (and that includes the one kpop Featured List - someone dropped the ball during that review). For example, some have links for chart placements in 2005 to the Gaon website, despite the fact it didn't even exist at that time.  Many link to the front page of the Gaon website, which is useless and often the info they claim is there is absolutely nowhere on the site.
 * 7) There is no place on either the RIAK or Gaon site that has a centralized location for all of an artist's releases. Apparently Gaon used to have one, with a search function, but no longer does (doesn't seem to have archived either).  So the straightforward link method that is used for, say, the Oricon charts doesn't work for Gaon or RIAK, and I used a complex referencing system similar to the FL Girls' Generation discography (though their links are all broken) in each chart's column header.
 * 8) There are no public records for charting on Japan's Oricon charts prior to mid-2005.  I put a note on the article, but how does one put a source for something like that?  They're just...not there.  (Lotta broken links on Japanese music articles nowadays...)
 * 9) Prior to 2009ish, it was fairly rare in Korea for singles to be released for actual sale.  If they were, they were ranked on the RIAK chart along with albums and EPs.  Singles were used to promote albums; that is, they made music videos for them, they were released to radio and music video channels for airplay, they were performed on weekly music shows - all the kinds of things that for-sale singles do but they weren't actually for sale.  But they're still singles, right?  I put them in the singles' table, but none of them have any sales numbers or chart positions.  (Some kpop discogs have sales numbers for these (such as Rain discography and I have no idea where they pulled those numbers from; they are totally unsourced.)  Is it required the article "prove" the songs were singles?  If so, how does one do that?
 * 10) There was a pre-existing Shinhwa videography article in place when I began editing this article.  It contained a table of their music videos.  Because it already existed, I consulted the Madonna videography (a FL) and moved Shinhwa's video album releases over there.  Is that appropriate?  Is there sufficient article content to merit two articles?  I think there is (they have a 17-year career), but I'm no expert on it.  (Obviously the videography is also a work in progress.)
 * 11) Is the recommendation to only list a work's first release date/label a firm recommendation?
 * 12) As you can see, many of these items on this discog were secondarily released in Japan (especially on the videography), where they then charted as domestic releases in that country. This is often true for other places like Taiwan, as well, but unlike most other Asian countries, there are good, reliable, and searchable records for Japan's Oricon chart and it's the major music market in Asia.  What I don't like about putting only the initial release info is that the reader cannot tell if the record charted in Japan as an import or as a domestic release.  Especially in recent years, some records chart on Oricon's domestic charts as imports from Korea, before the record is even released in Japan.  This is a different accomplishment than charting as a domestic release.  This doesn't really apply to Shinhwa but does to other artists, some of whose discogs I might work on some day, so I wanted to know.  I'm just anal about precision. :)  I don't think this is a big deal to most Western artists' discogs because they often chart in many countries; but Korean artists usually chart only regionally (especially historically) and often have two countries as primary bases for promotion (Korea and Japan both, with separate ways of marketing to each) so the distinction is a bit more important.(?)
 * 13) Also, a common practice these days in Korea is to release Korean DVDs first in Japan (Region 2, with Japanese subtitles), because of the huge difference in price point (they can charge USD100 for a DVD in Japan but maybe USD30 in Korea for the same DVD). But it's purely economical; the DVD may actually be fundamentally Korean in nature - Korean language, from a concert in Korea, Korean-language music videos, whatever.  So to put the first release date only (Japan), it looks to the reader as though it were primarily a Japanese release in nature.  On the Shinhwa videography, for now I've listed Korean dates for Korean DVDs, even if they're not the first date.  Since most DVDs don't have their own articles, there is no secondary place to explain all this.  Feedback?
 * 14) Tracklistings - yay or nay?  WP:DISCOGRAPHIES has no guidance for track listing inclusion for items which do not have their own articles.  On the Shinhwa discog, this is an issue only for Summer Story 2005.  The track listing was there already so I've kept it just until I figure out what to do.  It's notable and could merit an article, but frankly it's very hard to find relevant info on anything more than a few years old in Korea.  (I also can't find any charting info for it, and I have nooooo idea why?!)  The other Shinhwa album articles are very not good right now and need tons and tons of work.  So maybe one day it'll get an article, but not right now.  And of course DVDs are hardly going to get their own articles.  So is this issue taken on a case-by-case basis or...?
 * 15) It's standard to put the formats in which each work was released, but if you look at the albums you see it's really inconsistent; for example, most old releases are not documented as having been on cassette, though they surely were.  The best source I personally know for things like catalog numbers and such is Hanteo, but a lot of info seems to be missing regarding format.  What do I do?  Assume they were released on cassette?  Ignore it?  I'm lost, ha ha.
 * That's a lot to highlight, I will take each point by point Shinyang and then lets see. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat ] 04:39, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the slow reply,, I've had the flu. Anyway, sorry also about the long post; most of it is actually me explaining things.  I removed the track listings on the videography, but I still want to know about track listings because I'm working on other discographies for which none of the albums have articles.  I'm in no hurry.  Thank you so much! Shinyang-i (talk) 17:42, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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