Talk:Shinola/Archive 1

Shinola (brand) → Shinola
The product ("Shinola") is more notable than red links to pop albums ("shit"). &mdash;  F REAK OF N URxTURE  ( TALK )  03:06, 22 September 2005 (UTC) copied from WP:RM Septentrionalis 16:04, 22 September 2005 (UTC) It was Moved by Mairi, 14:01, October 13, 2005. &mdash;  F REAK OF N URxTURE  ( TALK )  10:22, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I support this move, since the brand is plainly the primary meaning. The redlinks should then be merged here, with the proverb. Septentrionalis 16:04, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Support the move. --Angr/undefined 10:46, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Support Ranveig 14:44, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

< http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shinola&diff=25450001&oldid=23810717 >.

This 2008 ad campaign suggests that the product is not defunct, even if it's no longer ubiquitous: 

(scroll down to see Frankenstein, the Mummy, and "Jack the Ripper" schilling for Shinola)

And here's a vintage ad from the 60s (again, scroll down):



--SkatingNerd —Preceding unsigned comment added by SkatingNerd (talk • contribs) 16:17, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Can & Contents
There is a photograph of the can. Considering the claims, does anyone have one that includes the content? There is not any likely method to test the clich%c3%a9. --User:Hopiakuta 23:21, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Vintage Shinola
I'd like to add this external link to the article.


 * http://graphic-design.tjs-labs.com/gallery-view?start=0&span=1000&sort=B&op=AND&match=LIKE&allfields=shinola&

The link displays a gallery of vintage graphic design used to advertise Shinola. The ads date from the 1930's, 40's, and 50's. --Mycroft.Holmes 19:42, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I've added this. Seems valuable to me (although you never know how a subsequent editor will interpret WP:EL). It is possible that another variant on the link, like would be more likely to survive redesign of that site, but I guess we can worry about that if it comes up. Kingdon 16:12, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Further References ... (list)
It is a shame that the list is in an apparently random sequence, with the first bullet-point holding 3 references, two of which are more-or-less duplicated further down the list. I'd suggest the following 3 changes be made simultaneously: (1) Trim the first bullet-point to just the first reference: "The 1992 David Lynch film Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me includes a memorable demonstration of the phrase." (2) Include its second reference in the fifth bullet-point: "In the 1979 film The Jerk, starring Steve Martin and directed by Carl Reiner, Navin Johnson (Martin) is instructed in the difference between Shit and Shinola by his father (Richard Ward)." (3) Include its third reference in the sixteenth bullet-point: "Thomas Pynchon's 1973 novel, Gravity's Rainbow, includes a lengthy discussion of the phrase, and in episode 4.6 Säure Bummer asks Seaman "Pig" Bodine, "you will tell me about the American expression 'Shit from Shinola,'" from which jumping-off point Pynchon sketches how a German-speaker with no knowledge of English might interpret the English words "shit" and "Shinola." " Sorry I'm just showing the TEXT - the REFERENCE LINKS need to be kept. Heraldica (talk) 09:01, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I think he's telling you to get your shinola together. WHPratt (talk) 13:58, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Great article
This is one of the finest articles on Wikipedia. Short, to the point, and the description of the phrase is one fine piece of writing. Rees11 (talk) 00:42, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

trademark falsehood
The article says that the trademark was filed in 1929 by the Shinola-Bixby Corporation which seems impossible as the brand was owned by Gold Dust in 1929. Gold dust bought the line in 1923 by acquiring the F.F. Dalley Company. See http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Bestfoods-Company-History.html. The USPTO reference shows the LAST APPLICANT(S)/OWNER(S) OF RECORD which says nothing about who actually trademarked it. Toddst1 (talk) 09:08, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Seems the company name Shinola-Bixby was still used as a subsidiary of Gold Dust. See: Business: Two Morrows. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.6.51.59 (talk) 18:15, 18 October 2011 (UTC) I will add some more info. Company was sold to Gold Dust ca 1923 by the estate of Henry M. Bixby (Salem MA) who had taken it over, around 1896-7 or 1906-7 from his uncle Samuel M. Bixby of Waren NH. Samuel had been in numerous business until finding the need for a good shoe blacking polish. They had numerous brands of polish but the earliest dated bottle I've seen was 1883. Jon Hoyt Jon Hoyt (talk) 14:26, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Is it "shine-ola" or "shin-ola"?
What is the correct pronunciation? I asked an elderly person the other day, and he said it was "shine-ola".

We need to get this clarified before this piece of information is lost to history. Prescottbush (talk) 16:05, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

My grandfather pronounced it shine-ola. PAR (talk) 20:05, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Shinola was (and now is again) shoe polish, as in, something to make your shoes shine. "Shine-ola" makes the most sense. Hzoi (talk) 21:32, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Era of Shinola's origin much earlier than article suggests
Materials at Dalley Family Papers recount the chronology of the F.F. Dalley company to its origin UNDER THAT NAME in 1875, and its predecessor organization which began in 1846 as a retail druggist operated by Edwin Dalley in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Reportedly, in 1851, Edwin Dalley "gave up his retail drug business to become involved in wholesaling and in the manufacture of blacking [shoe polish]...and other substances...." In 1875, Edwin's son, Frederick Fenner Dalley, "took over the business which he continued at F. F. Daley & Co." "In 1893 the business was incorporated as the F. F. Dalley Co. Ltd. and continued under that name until at least 1907. The company manufactured blacking, inks, SHOE POLISH [emphasis added], flavouring extracts, patent medicines, dye stuffs, baking powder, and spices, as well as being a wholesaler for oils, drug sundries, etc." The shoe polish business was sold by F.F. Dalley Co. in the late 1920s early 1930s. While the Shinola brand is not mentioned here by name, it is clear from the Gold Dust reference above ["trademark falsehood'] that Dalley was the manufacturer from which the brand was acquired.

Conjecture: perhaps the breakdown in the chronology here is due to the fact that Gold Dust and its parent company were based in the USA, while Dalley was a Canadian firm based in Hamilton, Ontario (although Dalley did have a subsidiary in Buffalo, NY as indicated in Who's Who and Why for 1914) So, it appears that Shinola has been around somewhat longer than the early and mid 20th century.

This writer has before him, at the time of this writing, a tin of brown Shinola bearing the inscription: "Hecker Products Corporation, successors to 2 in 1-Shinola-Bixby Corp., New York and Indianapolis, U.S.A." The tin is full, and a close inspection of its contents reveals, to this observer, differences in texture and smell which clearly distinguish it from shit. This is, of course, a purely subjective observation and may reflect the writer's inability to distinguish shit from Shinola.R2texas (talk) I have never found any connection with the name Dalley & Bixby and doubt there is or ever was one. I have seen a connection between Hecker and Bixby but I think this is a post 1920 one and only from NYC where the Bixby business was. Jon Hoyt Jon Hoyt (talk) 14:30, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

"In popular culture"
This RFC concluded that a secondary sources should be provided to verify a pop culture example's existence and cultural significance. I do not propose to reopen that consensus for discussion. 24.7.14.87 (talk) 00:34, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
 * You have thrown out the baby with the bathwater. Some of these had other sources, a fact that apparently escaped your notice. Am looking for sources.  7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 20:07, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
 * You are referring perhaps to the citation of a film script, which is a primary and not secondary source? 24.7.14.87 (talk) 20:49, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Would you prefer to see the films. That can be arranged.  7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 21:36, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Restored content. Added references.  I did run into a problem with song lyrics as the citations I had intended to use were on the wikipedia blacklist.  Am looking for other sources. WP:BRD. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 12:29, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Added references for all of the examples. 7&amp;6=thirteen (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 17:12, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Attribution
A portion of the text was added to Shinola (shoe polish) and copied from Shinola (disambiguation) and Shynola. I forgot to note it in the edit summary. I also added a reference from Shinola (John Scofield album), which I noted in the edit summary. Another reference copied from Shinola (band). <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 14:02, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Dispute
Perhaps you should just accept that things are not significant to mention in Wikipedia merely because you want them to be. The topic has been discussed, and the kind of reflexive inclusion policy that you are trying to push here was soundly defeated. If you think you can overturn that through the appropriate channels, have a go at it, but you cannot declare this article exempt from the consensus. 24.7.14.87 (talk) 20:30, 26 December 2016 (UTC)


 * The additions are just fine. Wikipedia operates by WP:CONSENSUS and that does not exist for the removal of the items. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 20:33, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
 * This is the right place and you have misapprehended the applicaility of your alleged consensus. You are in violation of WP:Edit warring and are about to violate WP:3RR Consider yourself warned. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 20:35, 26 December 2016 (UTC)


 * They are not "fine" until they have been sourced according to relevant standards. "Wikipedia's verifiability guidelines require all information to be citable to sources. When information is unsourced, and it is doubtful any sources are available for the information, it can be boldly removed." 20:43, 26 December 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.14.87 (talk)
 * Related dispute <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 21:31, 26 December 2016 (UTC)