Talk:Shishged River

The bridge near the sum center is actually a portable bridge, possibly of military origin. It's a beam bridge with extendable supports, the same system is used some dozen km southward at the Beltes gol, maybe also elsewhere in Mongolia. Yaan (talk) 16:58, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

River name
Soviet Geographic Ecyclopedic Vocabulary tells us: Maly Yenisei, Ka-Khem(in upper parts Shishkhid-Gol, Kyzyl-Khem) is the left component of Yenisei in MPR and Tuva ASSR. Length 563 km, basin area 58.7 th.sq.km. Derives from the Darkhad котловина. In upper parts is (Stromschnelle, rapid?), runs thru the West Sayan in the narrow dale. Lower part in the Tuva котловина, where is navigable (142 km).Av. debit 428 qb.m per sec. Kyzyl city is at the Large (Bolshoi) and Small (Maly) Yenisei junction.

See also Yenisei River and its chapter Upper Yenisei. Bogomolov.PL (talk) 05:30, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * So for the Russians this is just the upper part of the Small Yenisei, like the Ideriin Gol is just the upper part of the Selenge? But IMO the current name is OK since this is about the river in Mongolia, maybe in analogy to stuff like Brigach and Breg River, or Fulda River and Werra. There exist variants like "Shishigt Gol", but it seems "Shishged" is more common. But I think the Tuvan name could be added and the "mouth" row in the infobox corrected. Yaan (talk) 09:52, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * When river crosses international boundary it changes its name only, it runs with the different name not more. Selenge - Selenga. Tesiin Gol - Tes-Khem. Amur - Heilong Jiang. So this article is about only upper Mongolian part of the larger river. This position has to be reflected in the article and infobox.Bogomolov.PL (talk) 12:28, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * From only consulting google maps, I think this article is about one of the source rivers of the Kyzyl-Khem. The other ones would be Büsein gol (sp?) and some Bilin river (confluence is near [not at!] the border, Büsein gol flows northward along the border between Hövsgöl and Tuva, Bilin river flows southward). That is probably also the reason why this river is so much shorter than the Small Yenisei. I will try to find some more detailed and more reliable sources (google earth alone seems not reliable enough). Yaan (talk) 13:03, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Interestingly enough, google maps has the Small Yenesei start at a completely different location, at roughly 50.8,97.7 (see the terrain map & zoom in until 500m appears on the scale to the lower left, or see the normal map and zoom in to about 100-200m). Direct Link Yaan (talk) 13:24, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Russian maps may be are the reliable source - this stream shown in GM as Small Yenisei - Балыктыг-Хем. The Small Yenisei name starts from Balyktyg-Khem and Kyzyl Yenisei confluence. Kyzyl-Khem name is valid for fragment up to the Bilin mouth, where Шишхид-Гол(Мал.Енисей) ends. The notation Шишхид-Гол(Мал.Енисей) comes from Soviet 1:200 000 topo map M-47-III(avail.free from www.poehali.org), this name was several times repeated along the river.Bogomolov.PL (talk) 14:22, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I found it, but how can I display a .map file? Yaan (talk) 15:29, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Better now? Shoud we mention Ush-Bel'dir in the infobox as location of the confluence, since it even has an own airfield? Yaan (talk) 16:06, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that website btw. Yaan (talk) 16:07, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

reverted move
I have reverted the move to Little Yenisei River by user:Insider. The concepts are somewhat overlapping, but not identical. For the Mongolians, Shishged gol begins in the mountains, goes through Tsagaannuur and becomes a different river at its confluence with Büsein gol and Bilin gol. As far as I understand, for the Russians the Little Yenisei begins in Tsagaannuur, and goes through the confluence with Büsein gol and Bilin gol all the way to the confluence with the Yenisei. Thus we have all those different length measures of 344 km for Shishged gol and either 563(Insider's source) or 680(russian wp) for the little Yenisei River. Obviously, if it can be shown that Little Yenisei River is a notable concept, it should have an wp article. But that does not mean that there can be no separate article on Shishged gol - just like the existence of an article on the river Nile does not mean there can be no separate articles on White Nile and Blue Nile. Yaan (talk) 12:12, 29 January 2012 (UTC)