Talk:Shiva Sutras

Shiva Sutra has not to do with grammar! Excuse, but this article has nothing to do with the "heart" of Shiva Sutra, which is a spiritual teaching of Shiva, according shambhavopaya, shaktopaya and anavopaya, the tree divisions of the scripture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.232.242.183 (talk) 19:37, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

The article refers to the Shiva Sutra of Panini, which is indeed a grammatical text. The Shiva Sutra of Vasugupta is the religious text to which you are referring. Please do not paste the entirety of that other text into this article! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gpvillamil (talk • contribs) 19:33, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Linguists and Jargon
Would it be too much to ask of the linguists who constructed this article to write layman explanations and (god-forbid) a meaningful yet simple explanation in the first paragraph?! --71.107.217.63 22:35, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Can we invite people to pitch into the article and share the commentaries by Spiritual leaders which are simple enough for all to understand. User: Andy.went.wandy —Preceding undated comment added 06:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Characters inserted for pronunciation
The final paragraph contains a few errors. First is a minor typographical error. sUtra 6.1.77 reads "iko yaN aci". The rule does not, however, deal with vibhaktis, and the final "i" is not for pronunciation. When sandhis are removed, the sUtra reads "ikaH yaN aci". "ikaH" is the genitive (sixth vibhakti) of the pratyAhara "ik", "yaN" is the Nominative (first vibhakti) of the pratyAhara "yaN", and "aci" is the Locative (seventh vibhakti) of "ac". The sixth vibhakti (in this context) identifies the item to be replaced, by 1.1.49 "SaSThI sthAne yogA". The seventh vibhakti (in this context) indicates what must follow (be preceded by) that which is replaced, by 1.1.66 "tasminniti nirdiSTe pUrvasya". The first case (in this context) indicates the item which replaces (the item appearing in sixth vibhakti). Therefore, this sUtra means: "When 'ac' follows 'ik', 'yaN' comes". This is one of the first rules of sandhi that must be learned. In layman’s terms, when a word ending with "ik" (i, u, R, or L, or their savarNas) is followed by a word beginning with a different "ac" (a, i, u, R, L, e, o, ai, or au, or their savarNas), the "ik" gets replaced by "yaN" (y, v, r, or l), i.e. "i" changes to "y", "u" to "v", "R" to "r", and "L" to "l". For example, "sudhI + upAsya" becomes "sudhyupAsya", "madhu + ariH" becomes "madhvariH", "dAtR + arshaH" becomes "dAtrarshaH". For an example of characters inserted for pronunciation, sUtra 1.1.46 "Adyantau Takitau" comes to mind. Before sandhi, this is "Adi-antau T-kitau". This is nominative dual of the compounds "Adi + anta" and "'T + k' + it". The "i" in "Adi" becomes "y" by "iko yaN aci". The "a" inserted after the "T" is for pronunciation only. I'm not sure how to integrate this into the article.

Q885 20:11, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

History
It is not clear what is the source of the following : Nrittāvasāne Natarājarājō nanādadhakkām navapanchavāram | uddhartukāmah sanakādisiddhān etadvimarshe sivasūtrajālam ||

Who, when, where says these words/slokas? Is there a "date", (even) approximate for the Shiva Sutras? Thanks!--Aadal (talk) 16:37, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Regarding your question
Its really shocks me that even the people who r not having complete command on Paniniya siksha are not at all hesitating in questioning its authenticity. Have you read Panini's Astaadhyaayi or atleast any translations of it or any works based on it like Siddhaanta kaumudi, Vyakarana chandrika...then you will understand who told that..dates are not important, the content is important for an indian...if you are really interested you should have contacted some western indologists who waste their time only in calculating the the dates and timings instead of the actual content...(I am not all against you my dear brother...but conveyed my grief...) (A rough translation....pardon me if at all mistakes exists for i am still struggling to swim in the ocean of sanskrit) Nrittaavasane = at the end of the dance nataraajarajah = Shiva nanaada dakkaam = played the damaruka navapanchavaaram =14 times uddhartu kaamaah= in want of developing(or enlighten) Sanakaadi sidhdhaan=rishis such as sanaka, etc etat vimars'e=this was termed as siva sutrajaalam= sutra done by siva...

The stunning scientific ascpect of these sturas that, it was the world's first encoding of information (please refer to shannon's theorems to uunderstand about coding). Concentrate on that, not on dates...let the dates be glorified in heaven for god's sake not here in the earth..contribute to science not in history...understand the beauty of coding theory which is which is a branch of information theory.(I myself an master student in mobile communications, so if u have any doubts in coding theory surely i will clarify u)

I humble suggestion to all my dear friends..never bother abt date,time and all, concentrate on the actual work what our ancestors have done...that is of more importance for us... Vande mataram...Bsskchaitanya (talk) 11:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Some changes
I cleaned the article up a little (corrected spelling mistakes and transliteration inconsistencies and rewrote the first couple paragraphs). We could use a separate section on the pratyāhāras possible v. those actually used, the principles of its organization, and more examples of pratyāhāras in a more readable format. --Andrew Ollett (talk) 21:05, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Maaheshwar sutras
Maaheshwar sutras which were referred by Panini in Ashtadhyayi were written by yogi Swatantranand Nath of Siddha discipline in around 500 BC. Details can be found in his latter treatise "sri matrika chakra vivek".59.95.113.140 (talk) 10:49, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

The Śivasūtras are not an alphabet
Hello, Sanskritist here! Just thought I'd point out that the "see also" section for this page is a bit misleading. As far as I can tell, the Japanese Iroha and Chinese 1000-Character Classic do not in fact serve a similar purpose to the Śivasūtra. The Japanese and Chinese examples function, as far as I can tell, basically like the "alphabet song" for the Latin script. On the contrary, students do not use the Śivasūtras to learn the Sanskrit sound system or Devanāgarī characters. For that purpose one simply uses the mātṛkā or list of letters grouped by locus of articulation (sthāna). The Śivasūtra is one of the devices that the Aṣṭādhyāyī uses to increase its concision, and is learned when beginning the study of Pāṇini. If the Iroha or 1000-Character Classic serve a similarly technical grammatical function, it is not apparent from the respective articles.

If we really want to retain the comparative element here, my recommendation would be to promote the section on mātṛkā as a syllabary (in the corresponding article) to its own page, then put the "see also" there. Perhaps I will do this myself. Sahṛdayaḥ (talk) 19:22, 2 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Not sure that argument justifies severing the links entirely. Dyḗwsuh₃nus (talk) 20:37, 2 April 2022 (UTC)