Talk:Shoegaze/Archive 2

A.R. Kane
I really don't know why A.R. Kane are missing in this article. This must be a bad joke. --RivetHeadCulture (talk) 19:33, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't remember them being regarded as a shoegazing band back in the day - more of a dream pop band really, not really part of the shoegazing crowd. It comes down to reliable sources, ideally from the time they were around, revisionist journos being what they are. --Michig (talk) 19:54, 26 March 2015 (UTC)


 * 1.) There is and there never was a difference between dreampop and shoegazing. That's Wkipedia trash.
 * 2.) It doesn't really matter. They were an influence on Slowdive and other bands. They belong in the list of precursors. --RivetHeadCulture (talk) 22:23, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * 1. Your opinion, which you are perfectly entitled to. 2. Still need reliable sources. --Michig (talk) 22:28, 26 March 2015 (UTC)


 * 1.) A fact, supported by dozens of sources. On the other hand there is not a single source that describes "dreampop" as a stylistic origin of shoegazing. Strange, don't you think? The infobox is POV.
 * 2) Reynolds is reliable. --RivetHeadCulture (talk) 22:33, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Shoegaze Rhythm
One of the most noticeable aspects of shoegaze, that doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere in the article, is its approach to rhythm. Many if not most shoegaze songs have 2 beats going at the same time -- a regular one, in which, most often, the vocals, lead guitar and at least one rhythm instrument play, and a double time beat, often taken by the bass or rhythm guitar. The drums often play the one beat against the other, leading to the jumpy, syncopated feel of many of the songs.

The combination of beats can lend a feeling of forward thrust to songs, including ballads, that in most other styles would lack energy. This approach to rhythm was obviously not invented in the late 80's. You can hear it in some precursor music of the 60's, for example in songs by the Who and the Byrds (Eight Miles High is a good example). It is in this use of rhythms that a band like Swervedriver can be most easily associated with shoegaze.

Fotto 22:44, 22 September 2006 (UTC)fotto


 * I call it the "Vapour Trail" rhythm. It's in most every damn shoegaze song. If someone can put this in terms of music theory, I think it'd be a welcome addition.  WesleyDodds 02:08, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Could you explain this more clearly using an example so that I may be able to transalte it to music notation if possible?

An example: MBV's "Sugar"   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c0GrRbE6vw67.176.22.127 (talk) 01:08, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Pulling time/syncopation is a definite feature of shoegaze. Particularly the slow/fast contrast. But is it an original feature. These rhythms are all over the Cocteau Twins 1983 album Head over Heels, although they sound like a shoegaze band were proto-shoegaze quite a few years before anyone else. It seems some feature of post-punk as well as krautrock and even the dance/dub/hip-hop influence on shoegaze? But there is definitely a particular rhythmic feature i can't quite put my finger on which i think is how the rhythms the guitars play are half-time compared to this beat or even lagging slightly behind?80.189.74.185 (talk) 02:07, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Victorialand
In the timeline, why of all albums by Cocteau Twins, is Victorialand selected as emblematic of shoegaze? It's possibly the least shoegaze-sounding album they ever released, being acoustic-oriented. If a Twins record that was actually strongly influential to shoegaze (esp. in terms of production style, guitar effects, etc.) is going to be listed, shouldn't it be Head Over Heels or Treasure instead??? Greg Fasolino (talk) 15:46, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * "Head Over Heels" is too Goth-saturated for Shoegaze. And "Treasure"... not sure... Maybe some kind of Dreampop forerunner. But it also has this Banshees-Gothic/Ethereal vibe (e.g. "Beatrix", "Otterley" etc.). Generally, I wouldn't call Cocteau Twins a Shoegaze band. The term didn't even exist in the '80s.
 * "Dreampop" would be a better term for their later albums (Victorialand, Blue Bell Knoll). But there seems to be the same problem. Nobody called the Cocteaus "dreampop" back in the '80s. The only words i could find in '80s Cocteau reviews are "ethereal", "ethereal romanticism", "etherealism", "ethereality" and/or gothic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.244.72.251 (talk) 16:20, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Head over heels is most shoegaze. Victorialand is too ambient. HoH has the trademark drum rhythms as well as walls of chorusy guitars, treasure is more of the goth-ethereal. I would say HoH is the most proto-shoegaze record, and would even class it as sounding like a shoegaze record ahead of it's time, although the vocals are a bit too in the foreground and acrobatic, as well as being a bit too clean at times. Listening to the bass-line i think this deflects from the shoegaze too, but i dont think it defines, what it ends up as being is guitars+drums=shoegaze vocals+bass=post-punk/goth 80.189.74.185 (talk) 02:17, 23 August 2015 (UTC)..