Talk:Shogun (Trivium album)

Nick Raskulinecz
Well 411mania.com said about Trivium will record with Nick Raskulinecz and they have a hard time picking a song cause it said they are picking from 30 songs. --  " &mdash;The Black Dahlia Murder and Step Up 2 Rules Dirt Tv Show Rules 19:51, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Into the Mouth...
Under the article for that song should we mention that the uncensored album version has been leaked? It is all over YouTube and someone even provided a RapidShare link to download it. Haroldandkumar12 (talk) 14:30, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope, per WP:ALBUM, unless they do something about it. Jakisbak (talk) 16:09, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok. Haroldandkumar12 (talk) 18:19, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It also says its not a single i thought it was? I know Kirisute Gomen wasnt but Into the Mouth is avalible on iTunes. If so shouldnt it be considered a single. metallicafan1bryan (talk)  —Preceding undated comment was added at 05:21, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Genre
I say it's a combination of Metalcore and Thrash Metal. Tell me if you think different. Jonasbrothersareterrible —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonasbrotherareterrible (talk • contribs) 20:08, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, but that's not the way Wikipedia works. We need sources for that. --Kmaster (talk) 20:39, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Wouldn't that be Thrashcore? TimMC712 20:49, 16 September 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by TimMC712 (talk • contribs)


 * No, thrashcore is a hardcore punk subgenre that has nothing to do with metalcore nor thrash metal.--Kmaster (talk) 21:41, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Without reliable sources, the genre shouldn't be added. I doubt there will be any such sources based upon the leak, before it's released (though if there are, feel free to add them and that'll be fine), so until then there seems no point in adding any genres, no matter how much reasoning there might be. Prophaniti (talk) 15:58, 18 September 2008 (UTC)


 * There is something called consensus too, you don't see all the album articles on wikipedia with sources on their genres.--Kmaster (talk) 16:10, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The sources are your ears to hear the three singles released, showing the genres cited. Canniba  loki  16:36, 18 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, there is consensus, and I'm perfectly happy for that to be used once it's released. Until then, it really is just speculation. Leaks aren't considered reliable enough.
 * Unfortunately, my own ears (or yours, or anyone's) count for nothing. If they did, countless genres on wikipedia would be different. But wikipedia's own rules state that common sense and logic count for nothing whatsoever, which is not my doing. Prophaniti (talk) 17:30, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Right, now we have a source. Granted, it's allmusic, which is about as poor a source as there is, but a source nonetheless. Thank you for ending the childishness. Prophaniti (talk) 00:40, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Uh, Allmusic calls all metalcore bands "alternative metal". And we all know it's metalcore, no "alternative metal" --Kmaster (talk) 01:29, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * My statement on allmusic was based purely on the enormous number of errors they make elsewhere, not on this album specifically. Prophaniti (talk) 10:25, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

It's metalcore and thrash. I don't care if it goes against wiki's rules,I'm changing it. You have to be fucking deaf to not hear thrash and metalcore and allmusic is even worse as a source. 98.109.114.67 (talk) 19:05, 20 September 2008 (UTC) Jack Bauar (forgot to sign my comment yesterday haha.)

Alternative metal?! Go listen to A Sense of Purpose, Indestructible (Disturbed album), or Hypnotize (album) and Mezmerize if you want to see alternative metal blended with other genres. Thrash metal and metalcore. That's so obvious, I agree. You'd have to be really fucking deaf to not see that. -MetalKommandant (talk) 06:51, 20 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, we'll leave alternative metal there until more sources are available, at the very least. Knowing that AMG labels all metalcore bands as alternative metal means that we can override it when there are ample sources claiming this album as metalcore (as AMG are basically saying this album is metalcore, but do not have the label to express it as such), but as those sources are not yet available we'll need to leave it as is for a while. James25402 (talk) 11:57, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

I guess... but after it comes out, we can correct it back to thrash metal and metalcore. Any reviewer who has a bit of knowledge about Trivium knows that they're not alternative metal. :( Damn, alternative metal and metalcore could not be more polarized. -MetalKommandant (talk) 15:10, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

That’s allmusic for you. Remember, this is the same “reliable source” that claims Nightwish are symphonic black metal, Chimaira are punk revival, Draconian are goth rock, Hatebreed and Kamelot are death/black metal, and that black metal and death metal are one and the same, among dozens of other horrendous mistakes. Prophaniti (talk) 23:16, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Just a little comment - I dont think anybody at allmusic really listens to any heavy music. When it comes to more alternative rock bands, the genres are pretty accurate, but when it comes to heavy metal it can be really pathetic. Fezmar9 (talk) 04:50, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a consensus that this review should be taken down. Since it's, you know, not a reliable source. And that goes for The Crusade, too-- there is nothing alternative metal about that album, either. If so, then Metallica did a lot of alternative metal, too. Ugh. -MetalKommandant (talk) 18:10, 22 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Sounds fine to me. Any removal of allmusic regarding anything metal is always an improvement to wikipedia. My only objection was to genres being added long before the album was released with no source. Prophaniti (talk) 19:45, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Well its sounds defonetly not metalcore it has more of a thrashy/death metal side its brutaller than ascendancy there is a totall melodic death metal influence in it compining the aggression of thrash metal. Personally i do not see trivium as a metalcore band, The trivium guys also do not see them selves as a metalcore band. tbh its a pile of shit ascendancy sounded like At The Gates lets see do you class them as metalcore? anyway listen to upon the shores total death metal influence bassicaly most of the songs struckture is melodic death metal with the same amount of thrash. If they were metalcore that means they would sound like Bullet. Trivium i see apart from the crusade are a melodic death metal band.

Oh id like to add Paolo sees the band as a metal band combining Thrash/Death Metal so suck on that XD

OKTHANKSBYE XD xxxxx

Album Leak
Just wondering, should we add anything about the leak? Or do we have to wait until the band does something about it? 98.109.114.67 (talk) 20:40, 18 September 2008 (UTC) Jack Bauar
 * It shouldn't be included until there is some kind of reaction from the band or, preferably, some reliable sources discuss it. See the WikiProject guidance on the matter. J Milburn (talk) 20:46, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Singles
Which song is the first single, both Kirisute and Down from the Sky say they are the first single if anyone wanted to fix this 140.104.117.119 (talk) 16:21, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Throes of Peredition
The article can and SHOULD be removed. Its not a single and doesn't need a page. Hell, the link isn't even on Shogun's page.96.234.65.135 (talk) 20:26, 30 September 2008 (UTC) Jack Bauar

Melodic Death Metal?
ummmm how are they Melodeth? sure Heafe throws in some death growls here and there but other than that... I dnt see it, is there any sources? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.217.154.179 (talk) 07:36, 20 June 2009 (UTC) They are simply Trash Metal and one of the best. I don't think it has anything to do with death metal except the screaming ;). --Leonardo Da Vinci (talk) 06:49, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Genre
Well its sounds defonetly not metalcore it has more of a thrashy/death metal side its brutaller than ascendancy there is a totall melodic death metal influence in it compining the aggression of thrash metal. Personally i do not see trivium as a metalcore band, The trivium guys also do not see them selves as a metalcore band. tbh its a pile of shit ascendancy sounded like At The Gates lets see do you class them as metalcore? anyway listen to upon the shores total death metal influence bassicaly most of the songs struckture is melodic death metal with the same amount of thrash. If they were metalcore that means they would sound like Bullet. Trivium i see apart from the crusade are a melodic death metal band.

Oh id like to add Paolo sees the band as a metal band combining Thrash/Death Metal so suck on that XD

OKTHANKSBYE XD xxxxx Heres what the reviews say:

About.com - Thrash, Metalcore

Allmusic - Alternative Metal, Thrash, Heavy Metal

ChartAttack - no clear genre for this album

IGN - Thrash Metal, Tech Metal (He who Spawned the Furies)

Thrash Hits - no clear genre but says that it's not extreme or thrash metal

That gives three that say Thrash Metal, one that says Metalcore, one that says Alterative Metal and Heavy Metal (this one is allmusic which puts most metalcore under alternative metal). And one that says not thrash Metal.

None of the above say progressive metal. From the above reviews the genre should be Thrash Metal, Metalcore and perhaps Heavy Metal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Duck610 (talk • contribs) 08:36, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree with you, the genres "heavy metal, metalcore, and thrash metal," are the most used by music critics.--  C  anniba loki  16:45, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Look, guy at the top, I might agree with you and then I might not, it doesnt matter. You need to find reliable third party sources to back you up (Paolo is a first party source) or it wouldnt and shouldnt be changed. In case you didnt relise it is well known the modern metalcore bands take alot of infulence from At the Gates and other Melodic Death Metal bands. Korn also do not see themselves as a nu metal band, motorhead dont see themselves as a heavy metal band (ok, so argueably, they arent). While Trivium have always been a metal band with a very small amount of 'core' elements (mostly hardcore screaming and the lyrical theams on ascendency & ember to inferno). The fact is sources call it metalcore, so it must be added, trivium will always be related to metalcore because of matt's original vocal style (even if it was, as stated by him, because he couldnt sing) and the melodeath influence. Its the way it is. 60.230.13.158 (talk) 23:54, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Why always use shitty critics claiming they're sources? Wikipedia is retarded. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.96.52.134 (talk) 19:46, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Translation of the album thumbnail
Anyone has any idea what the two japanese symbols in the logo of the album mean? --Leonardo Da Vinci (talk) 06:50, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe it just says "Shogun", nothing more interesting than that. ~ mazca  talk 13:22, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Why was the Down From The Sky page deleted?
I want to know, what was wrong with it? It's a single, and the previous article wasn't bad at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.136.41.213 (talk) 11:33, 18 May 2011 (UTC)