Talk:Shona Holmes health care incident

Discussion of the (various) diseases she claims
Where does the cancer claim come from? According the Mayo Clinic's write-up on Holmes, she had a Rathke's cleft cyst which is a benign tumor, which as I understand from Wikipedia's entry on the subject of benign tumors, is not cancer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ctbwiki (talk • contribs) 00:33, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Removed reference to Holmes having Cushing's Syndrome/Disease. The reference to the John Wayne Cancer Center provided for the claim is a generic discussion on Cushing's, not an indication that Holmes ever had it. Removed per WP:BLP Poorly sourced material policy --Ctbwiki (talk) 14:34, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Shona Holmes asserts that she has Cushing's Syndrome here in an interview with CBC's As It Happens:

http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/8752/asithappens/20090721-aih-1.wmv (at minute 6:30) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.226.245.153 (talk) 22:53, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Not sure where this fits in, but as it comes from the Doctors that treated her, it should be in there somewhere. but Mayo Clinic has a patient Story page for Shona Holmes. Shona Holmes - Treatment of rare brain cyst restores vision http://www.mayoclinic.org/patientstories/story-339.html Definitely not cancer, and definitely not a tumour, and definitely not Cushing's Syndrome. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.249.134.71 (talk) 03:23, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

The only claim of cancer comes from Holmes herself--she claims that her Canadian doctor diagnosis her with a brain cancer. This seems to be an exaggeration, however Canadian privacy laws prevent her doctor from discussing her case, so that can't be said for certain. The Mayo Clinic doesn't say she had cancer--only that she told them she had cancer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.193.128.193 (talk) 07:30, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Rathke's cleft cyst
I started an article on the Rathke's cleft cyst. It is a quite common congenital condition, that develops about the sixth week of pregnancy. So Holmes had it all her life. These cysts are found in more than 2 percent of the population, and are almost always totally asymptomatic.

The cysts are thin walled bags of fluid. Holmes and the Mayo clinic say she had hers removed. This is not the recommended treatment. The recommended treatment is to stick a flexible tool up the patient's nose, and get at the cyst through the bottom. A tiny sample is snipped, for a biopsy, and the bag is simply pierced allowing the fluid to drain away. This is preferred to excision, because removing the bag can result in taking away active brain cells, and can trigger bleeding.

So, it would be good to track down whether she really had an excision, and, if so, why the Mayo Clinic performed a non-standard procedure. Geo Swan (talk) 15:40, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Deletion review?
spent a bit of time looking for this, but it seems the article was never sent to deltion review. I cant find it. If it hasnt we should really remove the tag on the article Ottawa4ever (talk) 02:31, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * nm. it was found on August 9th and the discussion is archived. Im going to remove the tag Ottawa4ever (talk) 02:35, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Proposed Rename
During the third AFD, which I closed as Keep, a consensus emerged that this article might be better placed at a different title. This would narrow the focus of the article to the health care incidents surrounding Ms. Holmes, and would also avoid some of the issues raised by WP:BLP1E. The most frequently suggested title was Shona Holmes incident, though Shona Holmes health care controversy was also mentioned more than once. As the closing admin, I'm not going to enforce a new title; that decision should be made here - so here we are. Best, UltraExactZZ Claims~ Evidence 13:22, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Court Case - why the delay?
As I understand it Holmes filed a claim two years ago to get the Canadian government to meet the cost of her care overseas paid for by the Ontario Medicare scheme. But the article says the case has not yet been heard. Are their waiting lists for Ontario justice as well as health care? Or is this case held over pending further action by Holmes herself or for some other reason? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hauskalainen (talk • contribs)

The AG blames the plaintiff for the delay. The Four Deuces (talk) 18:19, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Benign cyst?
The current version of the article article [] states:


 * Her benign cyst was removed August 1, 2005.

However, none of the cited sources support that the claim that her cyst was benign. The closest thing that can be found about that is a (very often quoted) general blurb about Rathke's Cleft cysts from SAINT JOHN'S HEALTH CENTER (aka. John Wayne Cancer Center) which states in part:


 * Rathke’s Cleft Cysts are not true tumors or neoplasms; instead they are benign cysts. Rathke’s pouch forms as part of normal development and eventually forms the anterior lobe, pars intermedia and pars tuberalis, of the pituitary gland.  This pouch normally closes in fetal development, but a remnant often persists as a cleft that lies between the anterior and posterior lobes of the pituitary gland.  Occasionally, this remnant enlarges to form a cyst. RCCs can cause pituitary failure, headaches and in some instances, vision loss.

The first sentence of that quote was cited in some of the sources given for this article, often without including the last part of the original statement (i.e., RCCs can cause pituitary failure, headaches and in some instances, vision loss.) The quote refers to the condition generally, not to Shana Holmes condition specifically.

The San Diego Union-Tribune, LLC stated that:
 * The Mayo Clinic diagnosed Holmes with Rathke's cleft cyst, which the clinic describes as a rare fluid-filled sac that grows near the pituitary gland near the base of the brain and can cause hormone and vision problems over time. The condition is not known to be fatal and the clinic, in trumpeting her treatment, makes no claim that her life was in danger.


 * It does, though, say she would have eventually lost her sight without surgery.

The San Diego UT further states that Holmes has refused to release her medical records because of her law suit. They are a reliable source, and the claim from the Mayo Clinic is specific to Holmes' case, so I think is it incorrect to state that Holmes cyst was benign.

I'm changing the statement to reflect the facts and adding the SAINT JOHN'S HEALTH CENTER statement as a source.  Sparkie82 ( t • c )  22:26, 7 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Sparkie82 wrote: "However, none of the cited sources support that the claim that her cyst was benign."
 * Cancers grow in an uncontrolled way. They are malignant.  They lose the genetic integrity of the rest of the body.  They metastisize.  "Benign" here is the opposite of "malignant".  Sorry, it seems to me your concern is based on not understanding the accurate and neutral term you object to.


 * The "Rathke's cleft cyst" is a congenital condition -- like a cleft lip -- something that went wrong, in utero. Geo Swan (talk) 17:56, 8 June 2013 (UTC)