Talk:Shonan Junai Gumi

Bad Company
There is one problem about this article. Whenever i click on the link about "Bad Company", it takes me to the article about the rock band, not the manga Tohru Fujisawa made. can someone make a "Bad Company" article about the manga and make a disambiguity page of that page ? thanks X***D.

Character
I was added the anime voices and live actors to the article and I ran into a problem. Their is a character named Kadena Hae listed on animenewsnetwork.com pages and its nowhere to be found on this article. I was wonder if it was a name change or something else? (Duane543 17:14, 14 February 2007 (UTC))


 * Same goes for Makoto Sou and Itou Tada. Are they name changes or characters made up for the anime OVA. (Duane543 17:40, 14 February 2007 (UTC))


 * These are all alternate readings of the kanji. Assuming this page is correct: Itou Tada should be Itou Yui, Makoto Sou should be Makoto Hashiri, and Kadena Hae should be Kadena Nao.  — TangentCube /c /t 04:39, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Kanji names- Misako
Just a quick note, the characters for Misako (Machiruda's girlfriend) are written as shown, I don't know why there isn't a kanji for the 'misa' section, but nonetheless I copied it from Shonan Junai Gumi Deluxe Vol. 11, so it should be correct ^^

Smith-Mizuki name arrangement
In one panel in SJG Deluxe Vol. 9, we see a shot of Natsu's sister's gravestone, which reads 'Fuyuka Smith Mizuki'. I had assumed that that meant her first name was Fuyuka, and 'Smith-Mizuki' was their surname, since in the background are other gravestones with Western names on them. However, the Japanese Wikipedia lists Natsu as 'Mizuki Smith Natsuki' and his sister as 'Mizuki Smith Fuyuka' so whether it's better to put 'Smith-Mizuki' or 'Mizuki-Smith' is a matter of preference, I suppose.

Ashiyura 20:54, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Folken de Fanel, why are you deleting the reference to the fansub group subbing this?
Please explain. I am not aware of any Wikipedia policy against stating that an anime is being fansubbed by a fansub group. After all, Wikipedia has both a Fansub page, Animesuki page, etc. You said you were deleting the reference to the fansubs because fansubbing is illegal, correct? I think maybe you're misunderstanding Wikipedia's policys about fansubs. Wikipedia has many articles talking about illegal things/activities, like drugs, piracy, murder, etc. The fact that the subject is an illegal thing or activity does not mean that discussion of it is somehow banned from Wikipedia. Please respond ASAP. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blackgaine (talk • contribs) 12:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, fansubs are illegal. Yes, one Wikipedia's principle is to respect copyrights, making it impossible to use the articles to promote violation of copyrights (or any illegal things).


 * First, saying that an anime is fansubbed, and telling the readers precisely where to get it (by mentioning the name of fansub teams) is promoting the illegal downloading of the said anime.
 * Second, the fact that a show can be illegally downloaded is is non-notable trivia, because it is anecdotal, it doesn't bring anything important to the article and to the understanding of the show. Wikipedia isn't a fansub encyclopedia.


 * Yes, WP has articles about drugs, weapons, fansubs...But these articles don't say where to get which drug or gun...Folken de Fanel 23:32, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I am not telling the readers where to get the fansub. Telling someone the name of the group fansubbing the work and giving them the link or the name of the site from which to download it are two completely different things.  How does knowing the name of the fansub group even make it siginficantly easier to download a fansub?  Is it any easier than just typing "Shonan Junai Gumi" and "fansub" into Google?  I don't think it is.  The bottom line is I'm not providing a link to any sites from which users can download the fansubs.


 * Whether the content of an article is non-notable doesn't matter. Notability only applies to topics: "[Notability] guidelines pertain to the suitability of article topics but do not directly limit the content of articles." source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability


 * As far as the content being trivia--trivia as defined at trivia refers to facts which are disconnected from the rest of the content, like a list of disconnected facts or something like that. That is not the case with the sentence mentioning the fansub.  It is part of a larger paragraph which describes the availability of Shonan Junai Gumi-related media (manga and anime) in the U.S.


 * Fansubs are an important part of the average anime consumer's consumption of anime. When an anime series is unavailable as a licensed DVD release, anime consumers turn to fansubs.  To deny that is like denying the sky is blue.  Fansubs are the only means by which people who can only speak English can watch this anime and understand the dialogue.  Therefore it is important to the article to acknowledge that there is a fansub in existance.


 * You argument also doesn't make sense in light of the fact that the Anime Suki Wikipedia article exists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animesuki  If people can't mention fansubs on Wikipedia, then why does an entire article exist to discuss one of the biggest fansub distribution sites on the internet?  It even links to the Anime Suki site itself, where people can freely download fansubs.  If you want to make a big change in Wikipedia policy, go after the big fish, Anime Suki.  Stop picking on little articles about individual series.  In my humble opinion, you come off as a bully.MightGaine 16:16, 3 September 2007 (UTC)MightGaine
 * Yes, giving the name of the fansub teams is first making unnecessary advertisement about illegal works, and then it is clearly a way to indicate to the reader precisely where her can dowload fansub of Shonan Junai Gumi. Typing fansub teams names in Google is even more easy than typing "fansub" and "SJG", and anyone wanting to download SGG would only have to read this article to know precisely where to look.


 * Yes, notability limits (indirectly) the content of articles.


 * Fansubs are not notable because they're not a regular way of distribution and the topic is restricted to small underground communities involved in illegal acts. Articles about drugs don't say where you can find dealers.


 * Wikipedia doesn't support copyright violations, so it's useless to argue about fansubs supposedly being "only means by which people who can only speak English can watch this anime", that's your opinion, and Wikipedia is not made to convey it. Besides that, it is not enough notable for Wikipedia, and anyway it absolutely cannot justify gratuicious advertisements for fansub teams...


 * Animesuki is a bad article in its form, but anyway, you're completely wrong if you're thinking that its presence on WP allows you to turn each anime article into a giant advertisement for illegal download. It's you who want to make changes to WP's policies, not me. I'm only making this article rule-compliant, but it's you who're trying to impose things which WP don't agree. WP is not a fansubbing site. So I will continue to remove fansub adds, whether you like it or not, because WP isn't about illegal downloads. Now my turn to give you advise, you should try to actually improve other articles, because currently your only contribs here have been revert warring in order to advertise illegal websites.Folken de Fanel 22:06, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * How does notability limit the content of articles? It says clearly in the Notability page linked to above: "The particular topics and facts within an article are not each required to meet the standards of the notability guidelines."  So where are you pulling this from?


 * And even if you were right that it had to be notable, I could probably make a very good argument that it is notable. Just because something is illegal does not somehow negate its notability.


 * I really take issue with you calling the two sentences about the fansub of Shonan Junai Gumi a "giant advertisement for illegal download." Exaggerate much?


 * As for revert warring, I'm new to Wikipedia, so I have that excuse. What's yours?  Anyway, you have a point (that we should find a better way to settle this), so I'll try to find someone who can help when I have some free time.MightGaine 12:07, 4 September 2007 (UTC)MightGaine

Should the two sentences referencing the fansub be removed?
This was the original paragraph:

The deluxe edition of the manga has been licensed for North America by Tokyopop, who have retitled it GTO: The Early Years, although they retain Shonan Junai Gumi as a subtitle. The first volume was released in June 2006. The OVA series is being fansubbed in a joint effort by Sentosha Fansubs and Planetary Defense Subtitling Group. Currently the first four OVAs have been released.

This is the paragraph with the reference to the fansub removed:

The deluxe edition of the manga has been licensed for North America by Tokyopop, who have retitled it GTO: The Early Years, although they retain Shonan Junai Gumi as a subtitle. The first volume was released in June 2006.

Should these two sentences have been removed? Folken de Fanel believes they should be removed for the reasons he states above. I do not think they should be removed for the reasons I state above.

''It seems to me that Folken de Fanel is not attempting to compromise at all in this situation. There appears to be nothing in the above sentences that would cause them to be deleted. Should a compromise be necessary, possibly only the progress made with the fansubbing should be omitted to make it less of an advertisment and more a simple statement of fact such as seems to have been intended. Deletion of the entire passage was overkill.''- Yoshio —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.168.108.44 (talk) 02:41, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

''To be truthfully honest, I do not regard this as advertisement in any way. In case you may not be aware of this, the Shonan Junai Gumi anime is a very rare and almost unheard of series. Due to this, I believe it is quite significant information that two fansubbing groups have gone to the trouble of tracking it down and working on it, as this is a clear indication that the title does have strong following and that people outside Japan do want to view it. Potentially, this could also spark some incentive among official licensees to pick up the series which appears to be something Shonan Junai Gumi fans would welcome graciously. At most the paragraph highlighted may need to be altered slightly to sound more informative than promotional, however omitting it completely is, as Yoshio just pointed out, overkill.''--SanDen 14:20, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

All right, I've had a RFC up for almost 2 weeks, and of the two people who commented, they both said that deleting the reference to the fansub was unnecessary. Therefore, I've added it back. I took SanDen's advice and tried to make the lines about the fansub "sound more informative than promotional" by integrating them into the paragraph a little better. I've also taken Yoshio's advice and taken out the part about the progress made for the same reason.MightGaine 14:02, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a promotional tool, and anime articles aren't here to incite companies to buy new series. Contributors cannot either use facts to favor their own opinions about the popularity of a series or the supposed "positive effects" of fansubs: there has been thousands of fansubbed series, that this one is fansubbed is not notable nor exceptional in any way (it's the prequel to a very popular manga which was released in english between 2002 and 2005. The fansub of SJG started in 2007, so I don't see why it would be notable)...Besides, don't forget WP's policy concerning copyrights. Fansubs, whether they can incite licensees to pick up the series or not, are copyright violations.Folken de Fanel 20:50, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

And yet Animesuki gets a whole article on itself, extremely detailed information including exactly where to find such copyrighted information, a direct link and a banner? What's with the double standards? This was simply a reference in an existing article, is this a case of the little fish?-Yoshio
 * Feel free to rid the Animesuki article of all illegal refs. Folken de Fanel 17:56, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

By your definition, the article itself is illegal, and a direct advertisment for Animesuki. Could it be that you are afraid to go after the big fish? Why the crusade against this particular group? (by the way, i am not a part, nor have ever been a part of sentosha) ~Yoshio —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.218.70.28 (talk) 12:39, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * There is no "crusade" except yours, there is in my edits a respect for the rules, which you should read before commenting again. Besides, if you had taken the time to look at my previous contributions you would have seen that I've tried to remove every ad or undue praise/promotion for fansub on Wikipedia, not only on this article. So really your comments are useless. I'm not afraid to go after the big fish, it has already been done, again you should look at the history of the animesuki article.
 * If "attacking" animesuki rather than this article seems important to you, why don't you do it yourself ?Folken de Fanel 10:49, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

GTO B.A.D. Action 200 guidebooks
Just a note for anyone who is reading this article for info, or just out of interest: I'll be translating my way through the Shonan Junai Gumi character profiles and 'reminiscences' in these two guidebooks in the near future, so I'll hopefully add some information from them; so far it all looks fairly interesting, such as giving background info on Onizuka's parents etc. Hope it proves useful ^^. Ashiyura (talk) 21:11, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Does anyone have a copy of traduction of B.A.D. Action 200 guidebook? Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.232.89.254 (talk) 14:29, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

New Page for Characters?
Just wondering. The characters section seemed really long. And there were a few grammar errors as well. Should there be a new page with all the characters there? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lilithyl (talk • contribs) 11:20, 22 June 2009 (UTC)