Talk:Shredder (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles)

Spelling
the spellings here really need to be more consistent. It's Oroku Saki, same with his brother Oroku Nagi.

cool.

The table
I deleted it because it doesn't contain accurate information.

1) The height and weight are for the 2003 cartoon version of Shredder only. And they are only when he wears his robotic exosuit (an Utrom is most definitly not 6'2'').  I've moved that information to the 2003 cartoon bio.

2) The henchmen version is pretty inaccurate. First of all, Hun is only in the 2003 version of the show, and although Baxter is in most (but not all) versions, he only worked with Shredder in the 1987 and 2003 versions.  So is this a list of Shredder's henchmen from the 2003 cartoon only?  If it is, then it doesn't belong in a box on top of the article, and it's incomplete, as it lacks Karai and that scientist that replaced Baxter.  If it's meant to be all of Shredder's henchmen, then it's even more inaccurate, as it lacks his henchmen for all the other series.

3) The enemies thing is rather pointless. It's a given that Shredder, being the bad guy from TMNT, will be the enemy of the Turtles, the good guys from TMNT.  Plus, he was only the enemy of the Utroms in the 2003 cartoon, not in any other incarnation of the franchise.

A lot of this information varies from one version of the franchise to the next, and would be better suited in the right category or in Comparisons within Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. In fact, some of it is already there.

-- Ritchy, 20 July 2005

"The" Shredder
I could swear he was consistantly refered to as "Shredder" without a "The" prefix. Any Thoughts?

Not consistently. His real name is Oroku Saki, and his title (self-given, I'd guess) is "The Shredder". Many characters simply omit the "The" when referring to him - in the cartoons and movies, for example, this saves screentime and lessens the need for extensive editing. Saying "The" so many times in an hour and a half has to add up. Also, though there are Wikipedia conventions saying to avoid "The" at the start of article titles, there are also conventions that say it is preferable to use article names that can easily be linked to in a sentence. I therefore suggest that this article be moved back to The Shredder. Most articles link there rather than here anyway. -- Supermorff 15:51, 5 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree that it should be moved back to The Shredder. It is, after all, his actual name. --Ritchy 6 September 2005
 * I moved it back to the accurate name. --Ritchy 12 September 2005


 * I reverted it. Naming conventions clearly states that definite articles are not to be used unless it is the name of a work or an offical name. The Shredder is a fictional character and can be referred to as simply "Shredder". This is convention followed by many articles, and I don't see the need for this to be an exception. Change policy, then you can move it. Until then, this is the proper place. That other "convention" is weak to me; it's easily solved by something called copy and paste. Consistency takes priority, not the amount of work editors have to do. --Apostrophe 06:06, 17 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Wait, one convention must be followed without doubt unless changed but the other is weak?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.98.252.199 (talk) 01:23, 13 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Fine, whatever. Could we at least try to find a shorter qualifier. Like Shredder (character) or Shredder (comics) or Shredder (TMNT) or Shredder (villain) or Shredder (ninja), etc. -- Supermorff 13:47, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Yeah Supermorff has a point. We should get some kind of consistency going between all the TMNT character pages. Right now, some are "Name (Ninja Turtles)", some are "Name (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles)", some are "Name (Ninja Turtle)" and some are just "Name". They should all have the same format. I propose "Name (TMNT)". It's short, clear and to the point. --Ritchy 20 September 2005.


 * Keep the parentheses relating to the fiction (not "(character)" or "(villain)") and only use them when necessary. Don't give articles like Krang a parenthesis when there's no ambiguity with the name. --Apostrophe 21:44, 22 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I ran through the article and removed "the"s from Shredder's name. I thought it sounded tacky to have to use an article like that to describe Shredder.  If you absolutely hate this change of mine and want to put them all back, I at least push that the capitalization of the "the"s has to be consistent.  I saw several occurrences with the T capitalized, and just as many with it uncapitalized.  --Brandon Dilbeck 07:00, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


 * His name is "The Shredder" the "The" was just often taken out in the old cartoon and video games, but in the Mirage comics, films, and the new series he is referred to as, "The Shredder".

Headline text
I remember from the 1980s cartoon series and the video games and movies that followed, Shredder was always just Shredder. "The Shredder" sounds very odd to my ears, too. Almost everyone who remembers the series and looks it up on Wikipedia is going to know him as "Shredder" and not "The Shredder," at least in the United States.--NeantHumain 01:31, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

But in other incarnations, like the movie from 1990. He reffers to himself as "The Shredder" before he fights the turtles.77.11.174.184 (talk) 15:32, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Fictional?
At present the opening line of the article is...

''Shredder (sometimes The Shredder) is the main villain of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. He is a ninjutsu master called Oroku Saki, who has sworn to finish off Splinter and the Turtles. ''

Shouldn't we mention that this guy is a ficitonal character from a fictional series first?! OK we all know he's ficional, I'm inclined to think we should say so, to bring the article inline with the likes of, Darth Vader for example? Jhamez84 11:44, 8 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think nonfiction has "main villains" ;(

Victim count
I have the exodus episode tape I have watched it many times. The number of victims claimed when Shredder attacked the second planet is 3.2 million not 2 million.

Shredder actually said ???

 * Alegedly in one 1980's epsiode Shredder calims to have only 2 great desires: conquering the world and becoming a great writer.
 * Whether or not he said it, it's a rather irrelevant piece of trivia. -- Ritchy 15:51, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Mirage daughter
Someone add info on Pimiko. --HanzoHattori 14:09, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

mass murderer?
Can anyone explain how the Shredder is a mass murderer
 * Although it is implied that he killed a lot of people, to my knowledge he is never shown doing so, and is never explicitly called a mass murderer. It's OR to categorize him as such. I'll remove it. -- Ritchy 20:50, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * For exactly the same reason, I'll remove "Fictional mobsters", "Fictional serial killers", "Fictional dictators", "Fictional arsonists", "Fictional terrorists", and "Fictional businesspeople". -- Ritchy 20:53, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Why?

Anon

Because Wikipedia isn't for research, nor for anyone's opinion of who/what Shredder is. If he wasn't given the title explicitly in one incarnation or another of the franchise, then it doesn't belong here. -- Ritchy 22:52, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Of course just because Iago is never referred to as evil that means he isn't.

Anon


 * I have no idea who Iago is, nor am I particularly interested in the edit debates (if any) on that page. The edits on Iago do not set the official policy of Wikipedia. This, however, does. -- Ritchy 01:04, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I never said the edits on Iago had any bearing on this page, I was just saying that despite the fact that he is never referred to as evil he is obviously pure evil. Likewise despite the fact that Shredder is never referred to as a businessman, a dictator, a mass murderer, a mobster or a terrorist he is quite obviously all those things. Smart-ass.

Anon


 * Except that he is not "quite obviously" any of those things. He's not a businessman at all. He's not a dictator since he never ruled a country (aside for one or two inconsequential "it was just a dream" episodes like Shredderville). He's not a mass-murderer as he's never shown or mentioned to kill anyone, except Hamato Yoshi in some franchises (and even so, one kill doesn't make someone a mass murderer). He's not a mob boss. He's not a terrorist, as he doesn't push a social/political agenda using terror. So unless you can come up with a better argument than "it's obvious", those categories all stay off the page. -- Ritchy 22:33, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

The Foot Clan is definitely a 'mob' and has mob-esque dealings with more traditional mobs. In the new series (and I believe the comics as well) Saki is also a businessman. The rest are definitely wrongish though.

Isn't a terrorist just someone who uses terror to get their point across? If so he's definately a terrorist. His social/political agenda is that he should rule the world. Also the term dictator is used rather loosely these days, much like the term tyrant. It basically means a person in a position of power who abuses it. He also burns things down quite regularly so he is also an arsonist.

Anon

In the new show, exodus part 2 diretly connects him to the murder of over 4 millions murders in wars he started. A flashback shows him diretly murdering Splinter's master, and also murders a henchmen in the first episode.- Darknessofheart
 * Hum, that is a good point. I'll re-add the mass-murderer category. -- Ritchy 00:30, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

SuperBarney?
The article claims SuperShredder had purple skin. I'm pretty darn sure he didn't, it's just that his muscles were showing through his purple suit (which was skintight from his growing so large, though I guess it might be part of the mutancy since his spikes also "mutated" into bristles). His toy at least still had caucasian (er, asian) skin. I'm watching the movie right now and very little of his skin is showing, but it's not purple. He just has some muscle lines painted onto a tight purple suit, that's his clothing.

The Shredder: Separating the Utrom from the demon
While I understand that both Oroku Sakis' (the ones in TMNT 2003, I mean) stories are linked, they are still two different characters. As such, I believe separate their entry should be separated into two individual sub-entries (as I believe was the case before). Anybody agree or disagree?

Ian (65.218.145.144 09:59, 31 July 2007 (UTC))

Yes, I agree with that. They should be seperated so that people will know which Shredder is which in the new show. Also, the utrom Shredder images are next to the paragraphs that explain the original Shredder, so it should defiantly be changed.-Darknessofhearts

in fact, I don't know why are you deleted some important information. anyway, I returned it. I think this better than before —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Scientist Of The Worlds (talk • contribs).

Fair use rationale for Image:TMNTShredder2003.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:39, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:TMNTShredderComic.jpg
Image:TMNTShredderComic.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:39, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

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Picture of Super Shredder?
Could anyone upload a high-quality DVD caption/picture of Super Shredder? Please.(JoeLoeb (talk) 07:17, 1 February 2009 (UTC))

The Shredder's Womanly Pants
"Shredder also wears black tights like he's a woman."

Is this here for a reason? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.98.252.199 (talk) 01:27, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Article needs lots of work
Okay. This article has sections that are vastly overly detailed, needs more references, has poor organization, and I'm almost certain that list of appearances in the 2003 cartoon is overly focused and unnecessary. I'm gonna be bold and do what I can to shape this article up. --Onore Baka Sama (talk) 00:21, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Necessary Picture
I am shocked that isn't a picture of Shredder from the 2003 cartoon in his armour. This, for me, is the most recognisable version of the character and is quite different to the original version of the character, so should be included. I expected to see this version as the main picture (but that is just because I grew up with the modern version of the character). How about we have the picture at the following address [www.freewebs.com/naruto-tmnt-fan/shredder_02.jpg] Buddenon (talk) 17:20, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
 * It shouldn´t be the main picture, since that version was heavily altered.77.11.174.184 (talk) 15:36, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

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Regarding the "Japanese" name
The article cites the name "Oroku Saki, Japanese: 小禄 咲". Has this ever been stated by an official source? It sounds to me like a case of, and I've found this to be very common on online wikis, someone who does not understand Japanese seeing words purported to be Japanese, looking them up in a bad online dictionary, and inserting the first results they could find. It seems to have been an unsourced edit by an IP user whose geolocation data places them in the US with no citations. Searching for "小禄咲" seems to only yield results from this article, and people that are getting it from this article to begin with.

I'm Japanese and the name sounds absolutely nonsensical:

・The surname 小禄/Oroku is not a traditional Japanese name but a Ryukyuan one, and not a particularly common one at that (the census has it at 880 people in a country with a population of 125 million)

・咲/Saki is a real given name, the problem here is that it's a woman's name.

One might argue that the name is in a western order, meaning that Saki is the surname (it would have to be written completely differently if so), which would leave him with Oroku as the given name. In such a case, that would mean that he has the given name of an old woman.

From my perspective, which I'm sure most Japanese would share, it seems that the writers just came up with random Oriental-sounding syllables and tried to pass it off as a Japanese name. This is a very common occurence in western media, and has racist undertones in how it approaches foreign names with a disrespectful level of dismissiveness - These people do not bother with the minimal amount of effort needed to come up with an authentic name, choosing to instead use a load of nonsense they made up. Claiming that such a nonsensical name is a real Japanese name is akin to an attempt at legitimizing such racism, which is pretty offensive. (The fact that the name could theoretically exist in Japan for a woman of Ryukyuan heritage is purely coincidental.)

I left the citation needed tag up for some time and nobody has added a reference so I'm removing the name.109.236.4.20 (talk) 14:05, 24 January 2021 (UTC)


 * It seems that for this reason Japanese translations name Shredder "Sawaki Oroku" or informally サワキちゃん (Sawaki-chan). I can find a number of Japanese-language news articles that refer to Shredder this way.  While I'm sure the change has to do with the original feminine name of Saki being inappropriate, I can't find any secondary sources that explicitly state that. --Elephanthunter (talk) 16:35, 8 July 2021 (UTC)