Talk:Shrestha

Mess
After spending some time unsuccessfully trying to fix all the formatting problems with this page, I've given up and put them in the collapse-box below (click the Show link if you need to see it). The following notes address the problems that have led to this. Please help by heeding these standards.

New users please take note of the following: Editor1 posts a comment like this. -- Editor1 (talk) 14:51, 20 August 2014 (UTC) :Editor2 posts a response to what Editor1 said like this, with one colon in front. :Editor2 continues on with a second 'graph, which also has one colon in front. -- Editor2 (talk) 14:55, 20 August 2014 (UTC) ::Editor1 posts a response to what Editor2 said like this, with two colons in front -- Editor1 (talk) 14:58, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * New topics on talk pages go at the end (bottom) of the page, after all existing text. The easiest way to do this is by clicking the "+" tab at the top.
 * If, for some reason, you are manually creating a new section, the section headers start at level 2, using two equal symbols (i.e. == Section name ==). Do not ever use level 1 headers (i.e. undefined).
 * Postings to talk pages go below other users' existing postings. If you are responding to someone else's post, indent yours with increasing numbers of colons . For example:
 * Please sign your postings to talk pages so people can keep track of who said what. It's simple. Just add a space and four tildes at the end of your message and it will turn into something like "-- Editor2 (talk) 14:55, 20 August 2014 (UTC)" when you preview/save.
 * Please use the button to see what the page will look like before you save it. If your new topic is not at the bottom, you've done something wrong and need to fix it or start over without saving. If you've accidentally deleted someone else's postings (i.e. yours is suddenly the only thing on the page), you need to fix it or start over before saving.
 * Especially if your English skills are not great, please carefully edit and check your postings and at least use a browser with an English spell-checker in it. It's difficult enough to try to understand the meaning of broken grammar without having to guess at the meaning of mis-spelled words.
 * Article talk pages are for discussions about how to improve the related article. The only information that can go into the article is that which is backed up by quality, published, reliable sources. Most of what has been posted here in the last two weeks does not qualify. Racial and linguistic issues such as the ones being discussed are complex and the subject of much significant study. What has been posted here (the parts that are comprehensible) sounds more like original research or "folk knowledge". Even if it were learned in a university (in any country), no sources are being cited, and any conclusions (even if it were possible to come to them) could not be used to improve the article.

I'm sorry if any of this sounds harsh. It's nothing personal. Thank you for listening. —&#91;  Alan M 1  (talk) &#93;— 10:25, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

'''Please do not edit in this box. Start a new section using the "+" tab above. '''

Kevin Shrestha?
Who is this Kevin Shrestha character? Sounds like his friends are putting him up to this. Poor fellow. I'm taking the addition down.

MortgageBasedSecrty (talk) 16:49, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Requesting more details
I know wiki is not a good final reference for a sociology/anthro student but I am interested about Newars and "Shrestha/Sheshya" Newar caste. I request more update in this page regarding difference between "Shrestha" and "Sheshya". I have some Newar friends who insist they are "Sheshyas" but are not "Shresthas". An interesting talk "the last one" about this. Can someone please update the page? I am doing some crowdsourcing for my research and what better than a wiki page.Azizmasum (talk) 20:51, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Azizmasum

Sheshya or Syashya or Shresthas is a Newari caste. I don't mean just the popular Nepali surname 'Shrestha' but the whole caste in general of which the surname 'Shrestha' is a part of. After the Jyapus, it is the second largest Newari caste. Shresthas are around 22% of all Newar population or about 1.1% of whole Nepal's population. Traditionally they were regarded as the second highest Newar Hindu caste after the Rajopadhyaya or Dhyo Brahman caste (which are about 1.5% of Newar population.) Other Newar castes have generally seen Shresthas as one single unified group but to Shresthas themselves, there is a distinct division into two sub-castes: Chathriya and Pacthariya. Chathriya Shresthas used to be the aristocrats and descendants of not just Mallas but also of other royal dynasties. Chathriya Shresthas also consists of Joshis who were regarded as descendants of a Brahmin father and a Shrestha mother, and Karmacharyas, descendants of a Brahmin father and a Vaisya mother, hence in the four-varna caste categories both Joshi and Karmacharya were lowered Brahmins and put in Ksatriya(warrior, ruling caste) but their jobs were similar to that of the Brahmins (this due to that fact that actual pure Brahmin population has always been low in Kathmandu Valley.) These Chathriya Shresthas till Malla rule occupied the administration, ruling and other high-post jobs.

Similarly, the Pacthariya Shresthas were also seen as Shresthas but of lower status. This would be similar to comparing the Khas Thakuris and Chhetris - both similar on the outside but one is considered royal caste and the other general caste. However for Pachthariya Shresthas, their origins were seen as of Vaishyas. There are some studies which mention these Shresthas as the remaining rich Lichhavi population who were called 'Bharo' in the Malla times. Since Mallas brought with them their nobility and warrior castes, the remaining Lichhavi people were engaged in trading and farming, and the rich ones among them managed themselves to be called Shresthas. Their positions were of administrators, landlords and traders. Also, in the past, many non-Shresthas who successfully managed themselves to climb up the social hierarchy and earn wealth or donated to king or any other fancy activities were upgraded and enlisted as a Shrestha. Thus there has been a major influx of other castes in the general Shrestha category. There is a theory that the real original Shresthas- the Chathariyas - in order to seperate themselves and maintain their superiority over the Pacthariya Shresthas started adopting more Sankritization in their surnames or in their culture. Therefore while Pacthariya names till today are rather obscure sounding like Nyachhyon or Bataju for example where as Chathariya surnames are explicitly in Sanskrit. Chathariya Shresthas also try to maintain caste purity by not marrying Pacthariya Shrestha or in old cases not eating cooked rice from their hands. Another major influence of them as is written in the Wiki's page is that they were successful in convincing the Ranas that they alone were of Royal lineage and hence the Chathriyas were promoted to the Tagadhari jat as Kshetris (not Chhetri per se but general Ksatriya category) but the Pachthariyas were kept as 'Matwaali' jaats.

Now to the surname "Shrestha". This surname is one of Nepal's most popular surnames and is immediately recognizable as a Newar surname. Now in the past, "Shrestha" was a title given by the kings to his loyal people. Originally it was meant as a title only for Ksatriya population. It is recorded (and you can read this in History of Nepal by Sylvain Levi's book) that Shrestha (surname/title) ranked below the Upadhyaya Brahmin, Thakur (Malla and noble families like Pradhan, Mahapatra, Dev, Barman, etc.), Kayastha, and Joshi (Jaisi Brahmin). Hence they were highly regarded and were part of the 'Chathriya Shrestha' caste as years passed up until the Ranas. However due to modernization and Newars travelling outside valley for trade purposes, many Newars (Shresthas and non-Shresthas) started adopting this name 'Shrestha' as their surname. The name Shrestha has always been a prestigious title which could be a reason why people chose this name.. Also, many of the old Pacthariya Shrestha families instead of their old traditional family names simply started calling themselves 'Shrestha' maybe to make it simple for others to understand, or maybe due to the influence of Hindu regime, or maybe to raise themselves from their 'Vaisya' origin to 'Ksatriya' origin. Newars who went to Darjeeling, Sikkim, Bhutan also started calling themselves "pradhan" which is another surname of the larger Syashyah caste; Joshi in eastern Nepal - despite of their original Newari castes - all to distance themselves from the rigidity of caste structures and show themselves as in these new places of being as Noble-origin despite of their original origin. But there were many original Chathariya families who wrote 'Shrestha' as well. There are instances when the noble families of Kathmandu and Lalitpur in order to hide themselves from the ruthlessness of the early Shah regime dropped their original names to Shrestha only. It is said that Malla families too changed their names to Pradhan and Pradhananga in shame of losing their power and to hide their Malla name. So the problem for them now became to differentiate themselves from these new and to them fake "Shresthas". And this has been continuing till today - "Shrestha" as a name is very prominent and it consists of a large section of original Pacthariya Shrestha or Syasyah caste people who simply changed their original names to this name. Pacthariya Shresthas are fully entitled to take the name 'Shrestha' just like a Nepali Brahmin may just write Sharma instead of his old traditional name or any Limbu may just write Limbu instead of his old traditional name. But "Shrestha" now also consists of non-Shresthas who have only recently changed their names to Shresthas as a means for social mobility upwards. And "Shresthas" also contain, albeit a small percentage, original Malla-era 'Shrestha' surnamed Chathriya-families.

So who is a real Shrestha and who is a fake one? Or that who is of Chathriya origin and who is of real Pacthariya origin? One way is to check a person's family background and genealogies. Secondly, Chathriya families generally do not write Shrestha as their surname. But as I have said, there are many original Chathariya families who were called "Shrestha" since the Mallas. So when your friend is saying he is a "Syasyah" but not a "Shrestha" he is saying that he belongs to the "Shrestha" CASTE but not "Shrestha" SURNAME. Or he most likely is a Chathariya Shrestha who indeed are "Syasyah" CASTE but generally don't like themselves to be linked as a Shrestha because of the recent history that has definitely diluted the significance and social-standing of the surname.

Well that went out of hand...Hope you got the information you needed! Nepalichoro255 (talk) 10:48, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Nepalichoro255 for the awesome Information. Btw, am I seeing some vandalism to the page? There have been some "Cite references" removal and so on.Azizmasum (talk) 01:48, 19 August 2014 (UTC)