Talk:Shrewsbury/Archive 1

The Severn Radio Station
It's obvious that several users think that having a link to Shrewsbury's new radio station is spam. I said to myself the next time I see it edited and reverted I'd post this. So here I am posting it. In my opinion, it's not 'spam' as I don't think it is intended to advertise the station per se, however I don't think it is fair to be promoting it above BBC Shropshire or Beacon FM, for example. Therefore, can it not simply be left out of the External Links? I see no reason why it needs to be there. Maybe the article should reference the radio stations that Shrewsbury can lay claim to, but I see no further need. Samluke777 16:20, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Double Murder
There's been a double murder in Shrewsbury today at the Frankwell area. Someone should include this somewhere if it's relevant (although i'd think it was a pretty major event). More details here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shropshire/5138122.stm 195.92.168.167 12:40, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Why exactly should that be included? Murders happen every day, just because these ones happened in our town doesn't make them important. Skinmeister 14:52, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
 * No need to include it as murders happen every day in England. David 16:34, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Well - and everywhere else. I would guess that the average number of murders in Shrewsbury would be one per year or less. Nevertheless unless this murder is of spme note it shouldn't be in the article.Exile 21:42, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

White space below Attractions section
Anyone know if we can get rid of all that white space below the "Attractions" heading?

pjb007 21:37, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * There is no white space, it's a common error to Internet Explorer when viewing WP. Chrisbayley 16:39, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Image move
Why have most of the images been clustered at the bottom with a gallery? Most of the images were actually in appropriate places e.g. the Square next to the History section; this move seems illogical. Chrisbayley 21:50, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Because it looked a mess with loads of white space. Most of us do use IE so I assure you that, despite your dismissal ibid, there is white space. --MJB 22:32, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Gain a consensus for the image move. Until then, I've reverted it to the previous version but have moved the page stretching image (Darwin's Gate monument) into a better position. 212.219.105.21 09:50, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I've cut out that "Shrewsbury was unaffected by the industrial revolution" as this is not accurate. It may not have been "industrialised" in the way Coalbrookdale was, but the effects of the industrial revolution were felt nationwide. Railways, canals, iron becoming used in everyday materials such as pipes etc were all part of the process, as was cheap cotton and cheap weaving and spinning. Also, there is the tendency to use the "invented" saying, "birthplace of industry" when referring to Ironbridge. This is clearly a nonsense. It may have been one of the early places where iron was smelted successfully, but "industry" had been going on for centuries!! To make things out of wood, bronze, indeed anything is "industry". (User: Justkindness)

Some good work
There has clearly been some good work produced for this article - it's very comprehensive, if lacking a little in source material. However, the next step would be for regular editors to this article to apply the WP:UKCITIES standard layout to push this article towards Good article status. Hope that helps! -- Jza84 · (talk) 16:15, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Article development
I've been trying to improve the article lately, following the guidelines at WP:UKTOWNS. I think that the article could use more information about the geography of the town: the urban structures, built environment, geology and topography. Also the demography section needs data on: ethnic and religious composition, and also economic activity of the population. I was hoping that people could help out with this, and also to create a section for the town's economy. Mouchoir le Souris (talk) 01:04, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Local history books are usually the key to success with these place articles, but for the bites of info you want, http://neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk and http://vision.edina.ac.uk/index.jsp come to mind. Don't be afraid to borrow ideas from featured articles listed at WP:UKGEO either! I hope that helps. -- Jza84 · (talk) 02:03, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Request for Consensus: Welsh Name
An anonymous user (User:217.39.132.9) has removed the Welsh pronounciation from the introduction repeatedly. I am not neccessarily opposed to this, because I personally don't see why it needs to be in the opening line either, but war-reverting with User:Maxburgoyne and User:Dpaajones is clearly not the answer. Perhaps a consensus needs to be reached with all editors. Asdfasdf1231234 (talk) 14:59, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. All the great Marcher towns and cities (Ludlow - once the capital of Wales and the Marches - Chester, Hereford and Shrewsbury) have a unique relationship with Wales. Alsace-Lorraine in France and its link with Germany is similar.

I was raised in Knighton and we saw Salop, Ludlow and Hereford as our local centres; not LLandrindod Wells or Abergavenny (Y Fenni). The Welsh names are ancient and speak eloquently of this Marcher link. We are not suggesting a list of irrelevant Dutch, Spanish & Innuit names. Finally, English alternatives are usually given for Welsh towns. --MJB (talk) 15:05, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I accept all of that; I'm not denying the connection. I just dont entirely see the point of it being right at the start. I doubt that many people in Ludlow, Hereford or Shrewsbury actually speak Welsh and regularly call it by its Welsh name. Thus the Welsh name is only actually applicable to the small number of villages in the Welsh Marches which speak it, and that really isn't many people. By all means, the pronounciation and history of the name should definately be in the History sections of all three (or more articles), but I don't think it should be put at the top as designate it an 'official' name. Asdfasdf1231234 (talk) 15:14, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The reason Welsh towns have both names listed when available is because Wales has two official languages, English and Welsh. England has only one official language, English. As such only English names should be shown on articles for English towns. 217.39.132.9 (talk) 15:25, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I look forward to reviewing your suggested compromise. How odd that those in Wales so easily accept this. All names are, of course, historical e.g. Chester (Roman) and Shrewsbury (Anglo-Saxon). By including the Welsh name you acknowledge part of Marcher history and it is irrelevant to current Welsh speakers. --MJB (talk) 15:19, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Until a new compromise can be reached, however, I feel the current status quo should be maintained. Thus the Anon should cease reverting immediately; the user is additionally annoying the syntax of the introductory paragraph. Asdfasdf1231234 (talk) 15:26, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Discussion about addition of Welsh names to articles about English settlements
Since this matter has been raised on a number of pages now, and is ongoing, I think it best to refer people to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about settlements and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about settlements where the matter is being discussed for a number of articles (at least 4) about English settlements in which Welsh names have recently been added. DDStretch   (talk)  17:41, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Update 24-02-08
I've attempted to add lots of references using the cite web template. However, several sections of the article are of concern. Anyway, this is just my opinion from giving it a quick lookover. It's relatively good though, compared to other towns of equal importance such as Hereford, Worcester and Warwick. Generally has lots of references, and quite a few good pictures. Asdfasdf1231234 (talk) 00:54, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * History - generally good, but could be expanded considering the rich history the town has
 * Governance, Geography, Demography, Landmarks - All OK I think, but could use a reference here and there
 * Economy - a bit short..
 * Religious sites - Lots of references which is good, but lacks substance somewhat
 * Culture - Pretty good, perhaps one more relevant picture?
 * Transport - Reads well, but I couldn't find many sources for most of the information
 * Sport - probably the worst section of the article, seems to have just been directly converted from a list and left like that
 * Media - can this be incorportated into culture? there really isn't much to write about
 * Notable people - fine
 * Education - fine, more references maybe


 * Looks not too far from being a potential WP:GAC. There are alot of "stubby" paragraphs and statements which would benefit from a rethink, but other than that it's shaping up nicely! -- Jza84 · (talk) 01:57, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Article submitted to Good article review
I've submitted the article for good article review, as I believe it's now ready. The number of references seems adequate, and I've added some more tables and maps to break up some of the prose. I hope it passes! Asdfasdf1231234 (talk) 21:20, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * To the GA reviewer: Please see Wikipedia_talk:Good_article_nominations. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 00:53, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Shropshire
Is anyone interested in becoming a member of a WikiProject dedicated to the county of Shropshire? If so, please sign your name underthe proposal. Thanks, Asdfasdf1231234 (talk) 21:22, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

GA
The GA review has been archived and moved to Talk:Shrewsbury/GA. It can be accessed via the article history at the top. Dr. Cash (talk) 18:03, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

River Severn Crossings
Could somebody with a knowledge of Shrewsbury please kindly add coordinates for the various river crossings, to List of crossings of the River Severn. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 13:09, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Explosion in the Town Centre
Not sure where this best belongs.... Colds7ream (talk) 13:37, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I have put it in the history section at the end. see:Shrewsbury CrossHouses (talk) 13:59, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It shouldn't go anywhere in the article. See WP:NOTNEWS. --Simple Bob (talk) 16:18, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * However it has caused considerable change to the layout of the town centre and must surely warrant mention. CrossHouses (talk) 02:26, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Eh? "considerable change to the layout of the town centre" - no it hasn't. A (small and insignificant) building has gone. (And presumably construction work will occur at some point to replace the lost building on that corner.) David (talk) 09:38, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Demolished a corner of the Shrewsbury Hotel? Blown out windows in Theatre Severn, Morris's, SSFC, Rowleys House and lots more buildings, even being felt from Monkmoor? CrossHouses (talk) 18:16, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, so how's that a "considerable change to the layout of the town centre"? David (talk) 18:21, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It is even if at least temporarily. Something of this level of destruction surely requires mention. CrossHouses (talk) 18:45, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * But by "this level of destruction" all we're actually talking about is one small, insignificant building (which has nothing to do with the Hotel) destroyed and surrounding buildings (not surprisingly) having superficial damage such as a few windows blown out. It really isn't notable... well, beyond Shrewsbury lol. David (talk) 18:48, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You really are quite a stubborn geek aren't you? I doubt the Darwin Centre's noticable beyond Shrewsbury, I doubt the Shirehall's noticable beyond Shrewsbury. Also if you call a corner of the Shrewsbury Hotel blown apart i hardly see that as a few windows. The wall of the Shrewsbury came down. By the way, lol is just pathetic childish speak. CrossHouses (talk) 18:55, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps we should consider a change to the template for all UK towns so that a section for 'Small Gas Explosions' can be included? If that is a success, maybe 'Insignificant Road Accidents' could be next? MJB (talk) 20:42, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Precisely. Some people have an exaggerated sense of the incident in Shrewsbury. Maybe they need to travel out of town more often? David (talk) 20:50, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It shocks me that you can remain so blase about an incident which injured 14 people and left 3 people with 60% 3rd degree burns. including a couple of very good people. CrossHouses (talk) 21:40, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * We are discussing whether this incident is noteworthy, in the longer term, for entry in this (and other) Wikipedia article. Frankly people are injured and die in their millions every day around the world. As MJB says, shall we log all the deaths from traffic accidents? Over 3000 people (including some very good people) a year die that way in the UK alone. David (talk) 21:43, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Forgive me if i failed to see the discussion going on, it seemed like an insensitive rant about somebody without any feelings but what the hey. I still think this explosion is noteworthy for the effect it has had on the town centres economy and suchlike. CrossHouses (talk) 21:48, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Shrewsbury Slang
This article on slang was recently removed from Shrewsbury's trivia section, presumably because this user had not heard of the term:

'Monnerisms' - - "Mon" is used as a term of endearment, particularly amongst the young; typical usage is "y'alright monner?", meaning "How are you?". It is frequently offered as a colloquial greeting for example when entering a shop (c.f. "yes boss" might be used in the south eastern counties).

Has anybody else heard about this peculiar expression, or are there any others of interest that could be added. I cannot be sure it the term is specific to Shrewsbury, or if it is Shropshire-wide. Perhaps it would be worth adding a section on local dialect?


 * Surely this is just a (relatively) recent national fashion amongst younger people? As far as I'm aware it's got nothing to do with Shrewsbury, so it shouldn't be in the article.


 * Unless someone can prove otherwise. David 19:29, 10 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I've been saying "Alright mon?" since I was at school, so it's been around for at least ten years. A popular alternative, used when you haven't seen someone for a long time is "Alright MMMMMOOOOOOONNNNNNNNnnnnnnn".


 * I think it's used in Telford too, but I prefer not to associate with Telfordscum. Skinmeister 19:39, 10 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah the hatred of "Telfs" (Telford chavs)... ;) David 19:51, 10 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Whenever my dad puts on a Shropshire accent the word "mon" usually crops up fairly soon (often in the phrase "you'm right there mon!"), so it must have been around for at least few decades. I don't think this random snippet of dialect should be in the article though - it would be better in a properly sourced and encyclopedic Shropshire dialect article, or a dialect section in Shropshire. --Blisco 19:20, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Is there such a thing as a Shropshire dialect though?? David 19:46, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe not a Shropshire dialect. --Blisco 20:59, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Personally i think the dialect used in and around shrewsbury has great relevance to our county, being shrewsbury (or shoesbury..) born and bred myself and all my friends use 'mon' as a greeting, as do most people in the town and surrounding villages. How Doo Mon...


 * 'Mon' is obviously an import from the Black Country, it's usage is far more prevalent within Telford (Shudders) which is nearer to the Black Country. I should know I was born in Birmingham, have lived in Shrewsbury since 1983, but am still waiting for my passport...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by M5WJF (talk • contribs) 12:41, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Shrewsbury (Shrewshit/Shitbury), has a widely used dialect by the younger, hip generation (often seen with a bounce in their step) often diregarded by the older generation of boring old farts (with the exception of very few). Even though it is Shrewsbury culture and is widely recognised by the world, many Shrewsbury residents have yet to master the art of conversing in slick tones of utmost incredulousness. Examples of such conversations whereby Shrewsburyisms' are recognised are evident below:

Use of the popular words: dunna, wanna, tinna and mon

Jo: Alright mon?

Rob: Hi, are you coming out today?

Jo: It tinna very nice outside, I dunna wanna come out!

Rob: Gosh Jo you are full of shrewsburyisms'! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.102.232.5 (talk) 14:41, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Sentinel Works
I'm trying to get some more info added to the Sentinel Waggon Works page; specifically, when the works closed down and what happened to the site. I asked on that talk page some time ago, but no-one has responded. If anyone knows anything, can you add it there? Thanks, Rojomoke (talk) 15:50, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Factual error
The article claims Shrewsbury was not bombed during WW2. This is not true. Shrewsbury did suffer the effects of several bombs in WW2 and there were some deaths caused. http://shrewsburyforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=1767&st=0&entry1766327 has some details. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.208.114.13 (talk) 12:49, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I shall rewrite that sentence to reflect the relative lightness in damage but point out the lives lost in one particular raid.Cloptonson (talk) 19:41, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Current Mayor
With respect to him, Alan Townsend is not (2012) 'current Mayor' of Shrewsbury. Should it be updated to reflect the actual Mayor of the day or should the paragraph be 'retired'?Cloptonson (talk) 20:22, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Economy - Breweries
The statement a "brewery was established" in 1995 may give impression brewing was previously a non-existent industry in Shrewsbury. I have prefixed the brewery as "real ale", to acknowledge it not being part of a long-standing chain. There were major conventional breweries operating in Shrewsbury into the mid-20th century, which owned many public houses in and outside the town. Worth investigating.Cloptonson (talk) 20:17, 15 May 2012 (UTC) I have made the sentences tail-end to a larger paragraph in which I have mentioned reference to Shrewsbury beer by a Welsh Bard, number of breweries and maltings in Shrewsbury in 1900, and the end of conventional brewing and malting in Shrewsbury.Cloptonson (talk) 14:36, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Twin Town
I have started new section called Twin Town in order to mention that it is twinned with Zutphen in the Netherlands (a fact recorded in Zutphen's article), and that in 2009 a twinning with Bayreuth in Germany was being considered (with citation to local German newspaper report). More, sourced information welcome.Cloptonson (talk) 15:47, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Sentinel Works
Really? No one here knows when the works closed down? Rojomoke (talk) 09:57, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Reference to the Sentinel Works is conspicously absent from this article. It was a major employer in mid 20th century but progressively downsized.  After World War II it was taken over by Rolls-Royce, in the 1980s by Perkins of Peterborough, in the 1990s by Vickers. Worth a mention.Cloptonson (talk) 22:35, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Adcote School
I question the relevance of Adcote School to this article on the county town. It is outside the town council boundary and out of view, admittedly five miles distant. It would be a more pertinent mention in the article on Little Ness, in whose parish it lies. To mention a school five miles outside the town sets a precedent of questionable desirability, as there are a number of state schools within that radius in outside villages.Cloptonson (talk) 13:27, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Shrewsbury Cathedral
How come there is no mention of the cathedral in this article? It is quite a dominating building on the skyline and is surely a tourist attraction? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.82.208.13 (talk) 00:46, 10 March 2007 (UTC)


 * a) It is not in any way a dominating feature of the skyline - I think you're thinking of a different building?
 * b) It is not a tourist attraction either. David 20:00, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * c) Nor is it a cathedral! A cathedral is the seat of a bishop! Shrewsbury has an abbey. --MJB 07:41, 27 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Erm, yes it does have a bishop - the Roman Catholic Bishop of Shrewsbury. The Abbey is a Church of England church. David 12:11, 27 April 2007 (UTC)


 * It has a Roman Catholic Cathedral along the Town Walls, I went to a funeral there a few years ago. —Preceding unsigned comment added by M5WJF (talk • contribs) 12:37, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It's up Town Walls, near 'The Crescent' houses and above the sport pitches of the Girls' High School. 84.64.103.64 23:54, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Cathedral sure is looming from the river Severn at places (Shrewsbury School especially). Many people have been ignorant of cathedral's existence (including myself - a resident)... but yes, it is a large, dark (through air polution) cathedral from the outside (given Shrewsbury's size) - but said to be bright and ornate inside. Well worth mentioning as to educate and enlighten as to its existence. --Fountain Posters (talk) 08:51, 20 March 2010 (UTC)


 * A bit astonishing anyone could doubt the existence of Shrewsbury Cathedral or rely on reports of what's inside, as it is actually a major church, open every day to all comers, and very hard to miss even for a casual visitor - a short walk along the road from St Chad's. It was one of the many Catholic churches in the West Midlands sponsored by the 16th Earl of Shrewsbury and designed by Pugin. If you have even the slightest interest in architecture and live anywhere near Shrewsbury, you should visit it, along with Shrewsbury's other amazing historic churches. Sjwells53 (talk) 20:02, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Schools
The Priory School on Longden Road used to be a grammar school for girls, not boys. The old Priory Boys school was what is now the sixth form college on Town Walls. I've corrected the Education section to reflect this, although it's personal knowledge (I went to the Priory Boys), and I have no references to cite. Rojomoke (talk) 15:03, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

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Climate section inconsistent
"Rainfall averages 76 to 100 cm", but later "Annual average rainfall averages around 650 mm". Cite for first is a dead link. Cite for second refers to Shawbury rather than Shrewsbury? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.150.26.234 (talk) 11:36, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

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Population
Have changed population to the 2011 estimates as the population of Shrewsbury is not the 115,000 which is stated. Firstly this is directly contradictory to the figure given for the Shrewsbury and Atcham constituency which is only 102,000 meaning it would therefore be impossible for Shrewsbury to have a higher population. Secondly, this would mean that Shrewsbury's population has grown by 45,000 in 2 years, which is obviously nonsense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.103.174.159 (talk) 11:07, 7 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I have replaced population figures with the actual 2011 census figure for the parish of Shrewsbury. David (talk) 10:23, 4 November 2013 (UTC)


 * This is getting ridiculous. Shrewsbury's population is c. 75,000 not 100,000+ Argovian (talk) 19:29, 30 May 2015 (UTC)


 * The population troll is back, unfortunately. Sumorsǣte (talk) 18:37, 14 March 2016 (UTC)


 * And back again. How is the largely rural constituency of Shrewsbury & Atcham the town's "urban" population? As explained umpteen times, the civil parish (the town council's area) covers pretty much the entirely of Shrewsbury's urban area. The only addition that could be accepted is that of Bayston Hill civil parish, but that village/parish has a clearly separate identity and is physically separate to Shrewsbury (still). Sumorsǣte (talk) 00:02, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

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Roman road?
The Ordnance Survey shows a ROMAN ROAD entering Shrewsbury from the east. Is this Watling Street? But I see that the A49 through Church Stretton is called Watling Street, though the direction (N/S) seems wrong. Anybody know what gives? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 12:24, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Looks like Church Stretton may be right! (and Watling Street did come up from the south, not the east. See VCH: All the settlements lie near, but not on, the Roman road from Deva (Chester) via Viroconium Cornoviorum (Wroxeter) to Isca (Caerleon, Mon.). (fn. 8) The road, itself known as Botte (Bot) Street (fn. 9) or (by c. 1580) Watling Street, gave a name to the three Strettons, (fn. 10) 
 * I think I've answered my own question. Someone else can work out which roman road it is that the A5 follows. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 12:35, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

"Old Salopians" not residents
In the section Local People, two alumni of Shrewsbury School - Michael Hesletine and John Peel - are described as residents who were educated at the school. That description would more befit a pupil who was of a locally living family, not the case with Heseltine and Peel whose families lived outside Shropshire and who would merely be boarding pupils.Cloptonson (talk) 21:10, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The title of the section is actually 'Notable Salopians' not 'Local People' and without any further clarification of the inclusion qualifications is it not reasonable to include residents in institutions such schools or barracks wherever their families lived? There are several more pupils included. Are you suggesting removing teacher Cardus? Some individuals only qualification seems to be that they are buried there. The title of the section could be changed as could the inclusion qualifications. So as not to give undue weight to the section one could limit inclusion to those with a direct impact on the settlement or to the most notable. A separate list article could be written and linked. Is there guidance to be had elsewhere on Wikipedia?SovalValtos (talk) 22:05, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Apologies for my inaccurate recall of the heading. A potential cause for confusion over heading this section is that "Salopians" tends to be a generic term for (especially native) Shropshire people in general and Shrewsbury residents in particular, and that "Old Salopians" (as in the case of "Old Etonians" for Eton College alumni) is the term for Shrewsbury School alumni. I am not suggesting removing teacher Cardus. I know not the answer to the last question; I wonder if other users in the Shropshire wikiproject could help?Cloptonson (talk) 19:40, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The 'Notable people' section of WikiProject UK geography/How to write about settlements seems to be relevant if not very helpful to the inclusion problem.SovalValtos (talk) 22:42, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

Steve Winwood
It [Shrewsbury] is currently the home of renowned singer Steve Winwood, with his family.

I have raised a citation need against this dateless sentence. I find not mention of Shrewsbury in his wikipedia biography, which states his primary residence is in the Cotswolds.Cloptonson (talk) 20:23, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
 * A quick google comes up with references to Birmingham, Berkshire and Gloucestershire but nothing about Shrewsbury. I'd be tempted to delete it fairly soon if there is no response. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 20:58, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Seeing no response, I have deleted the above statement on grounds of being uncited and unsupported by his article.Cloptonson (talk) 19:35, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Draft:Shrewsbury Floods
I think this is worthy of an article. Bogger (talk) 21:56, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Darwin working at Royal Salop Infirmary - citation need raised
I have raised a citation need against the statement (in opening paragraph of section 'Notable Salopians') that Charles Darwin worked with his father as a teenager at the Royal Salop Infirmary (strictly speaking at the time simply Salop Infirmary, only became Royal in 1914). It is not mentioned in the wiki biography of his father and that of Charles himself only says he assisted his father (without mentioning the hospital) in his practice before going to Edinburgh University. No history of the hospital I have previously read mentions the Darwins.Cloptonson (talk) 07:41, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
 * The citation need has been removed. As my reasons still stand, I have reinstated it.Cloptonson (talk) 19:40, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Pronunciation
According to my dad, who grew up in the town, "Shrosebury" was the normal pronunciation (circa 1960s) while the true Shropshire-born-and-bred working-class folk said "Shoosbury"; he reckons "Shroosbury" is just plain wrong. Personally I've never heard anyone say Shoosbury but I've heard Shroosbury a fair amount in the town, so things must have changed (it's probably a case of spelling pronunciation taking over). My impression is that these days Shroosbury is working-class and Shrosebury is middle-class. As the Shropshire Star is a tabloid it makes sense that their survey would show a clear majority for Shroosbury, though of course it's not clear whether it was a poll of Star readers or a representative sample of the population. Just my 2 cents worth as an outsider - I'd be interested to hear what current residents think. --Blisco 19:12, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * That sounds about fair. As far as I'm concerned, the "ew" is pronounced "ow" - it's spelt "ew" and not "ow" as that's how in the "olden days" the sound "ow" was spelt. For example, the word "show"/"showing" was spelt as "shew"/"shewing". The only modern day spelling of an English word that uses this old spelling way is "sew", which is of course pronounced as "sow" (by most). David 19:44, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I grew up in Shropshire and do hear the pronunciation 'Shoozbree' frequently among the working class probably as many times as I hear 'Shroozbree'. I do know for a thing that 'ew' was pronounced 'oh' as in 'sew' more in the past. I do think that 'Shroozbree' is a case of spelling pronunciation taking over but was then slurred to 'Shoozbree' at some point though I do not think there is a connection to Shoeburyness, Essex which is often shortened to 'Shoebury'. Tk420 (talk) 14:43, 24 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Just came here to ask the same thing. I always heard it as "Shroze-bury" as a kid, but the media always seem to say "Shrooz-bury" now. Grutness... wha?   11:08, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Following a recent edit by User:Sol505000, I researched the IPA in the 2010 E-book edition the Oxford Dictionary of English, included with my Kindle Keyboard, and it is given as /ˈʃrəʊzb(ə)ri, although the first vowel sound is different to the one given in Help:IPA/English to represent the 'oh' sound, although it does also recognise ˈʃruːz-/ (SHROOZ-). Unfortunately, Wikipedia does not seem to recognise the use of (ə), used in the Oxford dictionary to indicate that the mid central vowel sound (pronounced like the 'a' in 'comma') is usually dropped, although it is common to drop the U in the 'bury' suffix in English place names, with Shrewsbury being no exception whether the first syllable is pronounced 'SHROHZ' or 'SHROOZ', and the pronunciation respelling here recognises it. I have decided to include /ˈʃroʊzbəri/ as the primary IPA after checking the Salisbury and Canterbury articles which follow the same practice for the 'bury' suffix although I normally hear the U dropped for those places as with Shrewsbury. Tk420 (talk) 18:00, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Robert Devereux, 2nd Earl of Essex (section Culture, subsection Literature and live performance heritage)
I have been surprised to see first time today this Earl being mentioned as a pupil of Shrewsbury School in its early days alongside Philip Sidney and Fulke Greville, likewise in the articles of Shrewsbury School and the Earl himself but in all three cases there is no citation against his name in that context while Greville and Sidney have a citation. His entry by Venn does not mention ANY schools attended prior to entering Cambridge University. I have deleted mention in this article of him as a pupil in this article for lack of citation. I have never seen him mentioned in histories of the School (by for example J.B. Oldham, who was an alumnus and master there). If he were he would surely have had some mention, as he was a high level favourite of Elizabeth I and the manner of his death would have given him the distinction of being the only Old Salopian to have been executed and the first of two (Judge Jefferies being the other) to have died as prisoners of the Tower of London. If citation can be found, then he can be mentioned here. There may have been a misunderstanding - the first headmaster Thomas Ashton was a tutor to him, but Ashton had retired from the headship in 1568, when the future Earl was two years old so it does not follow that Essex received Ashton's teaching at the school.Cloptonson (talk) 14:01, 10 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Neither does there seem to any connection of Francis Bacon with Shrewsbury. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 14:18, 10 April 2023 (UTC)


 * It appears whoever added this body of information was mentioning events that were post Greville and Sidney's years in the town as a follow on to illustrate their influence on Elizabethan culture rather than Shrewsbury's part in it. The germaneness to Shrewsbury is therefore questionable.Cloptonson (talk) 15:54, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * So fairly irrelevant then. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 15:56, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for deleting that paragraph. I have just discovered it may have been lifted from the main part of a paragraph in the Early life section of the article on Essex without apparent regard to relevance to Shrewsbury.Cloptonson (talk) 18:12, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Whoever the original editor was, they were desperately exaggerating the town's importance in Tudor culture. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 19:06, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I see Pupswand has added a citation against the reinstated mention of the Earl of Essex that points to page 28 of a publication of `1888. If they can share with us what is actually stated on that page in the source, it might or might not settle the dispute. I have today checked up the articles on the Earl in both the DNB and the, more recent, ODNB article by Paul E.J. Hammer; the former does not mention Shrewsbury School or name tutors, while the latter states: His earliest known teacher was Thomas Ashton, headmaster of Shrewsbury School....Ashton was succeeded as Devereux's "scolemaster" by his protege Robert Wright, who had been a pupil at Shrewsbury... This of itself does not explicitly support the implication he was at Shrewsbury School to receive the teaching because Ashton retired from his headship in 1568. I would also add that he could not have been at the school when Greville and Sidney were because they were both at least 11 years senior to Devereux and left for university by 1568 when the latter was not yet 4 years old. I did also look for published Shrewsbury School registers in Shropshire Archives but none are earlier than the 17th century.Cloptonson (talk) 13:53, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Like you I have been unable to find any reliable reference to Devereux attending Shrewsbury School. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 14:13, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The actual quote from the MS cited is as follows:
 * Of the high estimation in which this good man was held by those who
 * had enjoyed the benefit of his instruction, w^e have an interesting memorial
 * by one of them, Andrew Downes, who in his dedication of his Lectures on
 * an oration of Lysias, ed. 1595, to the celebrated and unfortunate Robert
 * Devereux, Earl of Essex, says : — " I was known to your Lordship at the
 * University. Low as was my condition, I was introduced to a nobleman of
 * your elevated rank by the circumstance of having received my education
 * from the same person who superintended your tender years, I mean Mr.
 * Thomas Ashton, who devoted himself to your father's service, and enjoyed
 * a most intimate acquaintance with your noble family.
 * Does not mention the school, just that Downes knew Devereux at University. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 12:05, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, that can be read as confirming Ashton tutored Devereux but it does not support at least at face value that the teaching was received as Downes' was at Shrewsbury School, Downes himself does not explicitly state it as if they were at the same school. I have copied your information onto the talk page of the Shrewsbury School article for benefit of the contributor should they read this.Cloptonson (talk) 19:23, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, good idea. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 20:01, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Pleased to say, they appear to have taken our argument on board and have reduced mention of the Earl to have been a pupil of Ashton post his headship without my intervention.Cloptonson (talk) 19:14, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Henry VII - not Henry VI
Re the picture of Henry Tudor. He was 7th, not the 6th, Henry on the English Throne. Would someone who understands English English and knows how to do so correct this, please. Mozdougren (talk) 08:15, 22 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Sorted: a slapdash editor missed I obviously :-) Murgatroyd49 (talk) 08:23, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you Murgatroid49 Mozdougren (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Shakespeare in Shrewsbury
A lot is made in the article about Shakespeare's assumed familiarity with the area. However, apart from a possibe visit in around 1603, when his company, The Kings Men, are recorded as performing in the town, I can find no evidence that he ever visited the area. Has anybody come across any evidence that he might have done? Murgatroyd49 (talk) 06:23, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Photos
Images gave been removed from this article. I feel this should have been discussed in Talk first. I propose to revert unless the deletions are justified. RoachPeter (talk) 19:49, 29 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The images are a complete mess. There are generally too many and they need better organising so that they at least bear some relevance to the adjacent text. Jut reverting isn't going to help very much. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 20:32, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * More deletions of images are needed not less. Too many do not directly illustrate text, illustrate off topic text or would be better seen in linked articles. Captions include unsourced text which needs editing. It would be worth using whilst restructuring to prevent interference.SovalValtos (talk) 08:02, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Something I meant to have a go at, trouble was there has recently been a concerted effort by various editors to clean up the text, largely successfully, so I have left the images until the dust settles. Now looks like good time to get stuck in. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 08:07, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Much remains to be done in cleaning the text and layout!SovalValtos (talk) 10:30, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I'll have a go after lunch! Murgatroyd49 (talk) 10:45, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Ye gods, this is a bigger mess than I expected, there's a lot of repetition in various sections, as well as some deliberately misleading links. Also a heavy reliance on quotes from a mid-Victorian essay that itself relies heavily on supposition and hearsay. I've just about cleaned up the history section, though doubtless I've missed a few things. Onwards… Murgatroyd49 (talk) 20:17, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Article rewrite - progress report
Having re-ordered the layout to better match the UK Geography guidelines, I've not done much with the lead other than aim for NPOV. I have completed the rewrite of the sections on History, Governence, Geography, Demography and Economy. The Toponomy section needs an explanation of the use of the name Pengwyn, which needs a bit more research. Demography needs fleshing out as I have been somewhat ruthless in removing out of date and no longer relevant details.

In general I have been quite ruthless in removing a lot of puffery and downright misleading detail. Some might think I've overdone it, can we discusss it on here if so?

I am now starting on the culture section, hunting up cites for the various claims. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 08:07, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

OK I give up. The usual suspects are trying to insert the same nonsense from dubious 19th century sources. I'll go and do something more useful.Murgatroyd49 (talk) 19:20, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Shropshire Sun Pendant
Although the Sun Pendant was first displayed at Shrewsbury, there is no indication in the citation it was found near or on the site of the present town of Shrewsbury. The location of the excavation and identity of the landowner were kept secret to protect the site from unauthorised excavation. As Shropshire was the largest inland county in England until recent times, the discovery would be a needle in a territorially wide haystack. I would be inclined to delete mention for these reasons.Cloptonson (talk) 13:27, 8 August 2023 (UTC)


 * I agree with you. I missed that when going through that section. I'll take it out. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 07:42, 11 August 2023 (UTC)