Talk:Shuriken

keeping shuriken and shuriken jutsu pages separate
July 11th, 2006 - major rewrite. With regard to what material should and shouldn't be included in THIS article, I think we need to bear in mind that we have 2 entries that are very closely related: "Shuriken", and "Shuriken jutsu". I think we need to agree that these two categories should be clearly defined as separate, and their relevent pages to include only information relevent to the topic. This way will avoid redundancy. Therefore, I propose that the page entitled "Shuriken" be only about the items themselves, and not the art or the techniques on how to throw them. It should discuss only descriptions of the physical attributes of the shuriken. The page "shuriken-jutsu", as the term suggests, I propose should include only information related to the art, its history, and the schools which taught this art. Only minor mention, if at all, of the blades themselves and their description should appear on this page.

To that end, I have deleted much information on this "shuriken" page, but I intend for it to be added to and included in the "shuriken jutsu" page. ==Taishanglao 14:04, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

deleting a trivia
i deleted this "* The website http://www.freewebs.com/how2beaninja/index.htm has a whole page dedicated to the history and use of shuriken (look under weapons)." due to its irelevance and advertisement of an unnecesary "fact" --Aaronpark 00:14, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Pictures
monkeys I added a picture of some bo-shuriken from my own collection. It'd be nice if someone could find/take some pictures of senban-shuriken as well. The hira-shuriken pictured at the start of the article is nice looking, but is it actually representative of anything which might have seen real use? I've never seen a senban-shuriken that looks anything like that in real training.--Rustedshuriken 03:45, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I have some pictures, but I don't kow how to upload them... ==Taishanglao 14:04, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Look to the left, you should see an Upload file link in the toolbox below the search box. Follow instructions there to get the image hosted by wikipedia. Then look at the article's source to see how the other images are rendered. --Rustedshuriken 08:25, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Adding to the shuriken pages
Hello, Someone connected with Wikipedia contacted me and asked if I would like to contribute to the Shuriken page on Wikipedia.en. I have been running the Secrets of Shuriken website for several years now, and I guess a website visitor has asked me to contribute. I am in two minds about doing this because 1) I am rather daunted by the prospect of writing a full blown article like many of the other excellent ones here, that is properly formatted in Wikistyle, and 2) I have observed on other topics the sometimes rather heated and abusive squabbling that has gone on as a result of edits being made. These two factors have put me off doing so for more than a year now. However, in the shuriken pages here I do notice many inaccuracies which I feel should be addressed, though to do so may create another heated and abusive discussion as the supporters of said inaccuracies may not agree with the changes, because we all know, we all hold our own beliefs to be the truest...

Should there not be some sort of consensus agreement as to how the material should be determined worthy of inclusion etc, as well as how it should be presented? --Taishanglao 11:28, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Notes on article text
Ri translated as "hidden" or "release"?

There seems to be some argument over the translation of the character ri in shuriken. Many argue that ri is "release", while others say "hidden". The fact is "ri" can be either. The important thing is the character used. Throughout history, shuriken has been written a number of different ways, 手裏剣, 手離剣, 手裡剣, even 打剣 (da ken - hit/throw blade). 裏 is hidden, 離 is release. Historical documents in general appear to settle on the use of 裏"hidden" in their descriptions of shuriken. Only one source I know of and have a copy of, is a Mou En Ryu shuriken densho (scroll) that uses the character 離"release", and Mou En Ryu is an extinct school. Respected shuriken and martial arts researchers such as Kanji Naruse, Fujita Seiko, Iwai Kohoku, Yumio Nawa, Eizo Shirakami, Massaki Hatsumi, Diane Skoss, Billy Hammond, Serge Mol, Mike Finn, ALL use 裏 "hidden" in their descriptions of shuriken. Why is this?

It appears that in very early times, there were many different choices of character for ri in shuriken. In fact, shuriken used be called "shiriken", which means "grasp the blade's end". This was related to throwing of the short sword (kodachi), tanto (knife), and the kozuka "small knife", where the art was akin more to knife throwing than shuriken throwing. There was no element of secrecy or hidden aspect to blade throwing. Later, martial arts innovators introduced methods of throwing needles, arrows, and other objects as a form of combat, and soon after, the idea of concealment became important in gaining the tactical advantage. Common usage of the word "blade hidden in the hand" became prevalent. Factor in that in feudal times, many Japanese were not literate, and others of limited written ability, so often when writing a word they heard, they would often not know the correct character, so would substitute a similar sounding character in its place, a character they did know how to write. This is thought to be the reason for many of the spellings of shuriken. Some schools did deliberately retain the use of 離"release" for their description of shuriken, however, it is thought many of these schools threw the knife, rather than the adapted needles, arrows etc, because in throwing a knife or short sword, it was not really necessary to be concerned about concealment. (However this is not the case with Mou En Ryu, as they used an adapted needle).

Shuriken development tended more towards concealment, secrecy and use of surprise, and later writers tended to more often use the term 裏 "hidden" in their description of shuriken. Schools that survived the turn of the century and the second world war all generally used the term 裏 "hidden" in their writings on shuriken. Today, 手裏剣 is the generally accepted and most prevalent method of writing "shuriken", while 手離剣 is much less so, and the other methods rarely, if at all.

裏 is composed of the morpheme (meaning component) "i", which is "clothing", "to cover", and the phoneme component "ri" (which gives the character its pronunciation). Together the two form the On-yomi reading "ri", which means "reverse", as in opposition to "exposed", or "covered" (like what clothes do). The Kun-yomi reading is "ura", which also means reverse, opposite, hidden, secret, and is used in different situation. Neither of these reading suggest the notion of "release". It is clear the choice of 裏 in shuriken is for its notion of hiding and concealment.

For this article, I therefore believe we should use the generally accepted term 手裏剣, and translate it as "hand hidden blade", even if it is not accepted by a marginal few... ==Taishanglao 03:33, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Senban aren't carpenter's nail removers, they are washers. Nail removers are "kugi-nuki"

"手裏剣; lit: "hand release blade"" - ri 裏 is not "release", its "cover, hide".

"called senban (車剣, also read as shaken" 車剣 is not "senban", it is "shaken", sometimes read as "kuruma ken". Senban is　銛盤

"first bo shuriken were large nails used in the wooden construction of temples and houses" From the literature it appears that the earliest bo shuriken were needles. Japanese needles aren't quite like what we in the west know as needles...they were thick, with a bulbous head, and often an octagonal cross section. There is also evidence to suggest that some styles of early bo-shuriken derived from arrows. The traditional Japanese arrow head was similar in shape to a needle, a bulbous head, with a long, thin shank, about 18cms long. The first documented school of shuriken, Ganritsu Ryu, used a blade that is very similar in shape to early arrow heads.

"Senban shuriken" is a sub group of "hira shuriken". When discussing blades shapes juxtaposed to "bo shuriken", it is more accurate to use the terms "hira-shuriken", or "shaken".

"having sharpened edges would lead to cut fingers." Not a reason for not having sharp edges. (see comment below). Some senban had a sharpened edge along the sides, not just the point. The original senban was just a flat plate of metal, about 2mm thick. The edges were sharpened as much as needed - no hard and fast rule.

"shuriken is thrown by snapping the wrist forward etc..." The snapping of the wrist is more correctly one of the two methods of throwing a bo shuriken. The wrist snapping method is the action of the hand in the "direct hit" method of throwing. The other form of throwing bo shuriken, the "turning hit" method, involves bringing the arm down like a sword cut, and holding the wrist straight, while the blade slides out naturally.

"unlike bo-shuriken, senban shuriken were used as harassment tools rather than as a true throwing knife in" Both bo and hira shuriken were trained to be thrown properly, ie. accurately, and with power. Their purposes were largely the same, that of nuisance, distraction, slowing down, surprise, annoying injury, and gaining advantage to enable better use of a major weapon. Occasionally knife throwing, that of actually throwing tanto, did sometimes result in a kill. Knife throwing was a separate skill to shuriken, although principles of throwing tanto differed insignificantly from those of shuriken. --Taishanglao 14:44, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Shuriken and poison
I somewhat seriously doubt that "the ninja could easily kill himself" is a good reason for not applying poison to shurikens. Either they did so, or there was another reason for not doing it

______

I have heard through a secondary source, that a shuriken given by Kondo Sensei of Daito Ryu to Don Angier Sensei of Yanagi Ryu, when handled, gave a numbing sensation to the fingers. It was thought that the blade had been coated with a poison, of unknown origin, and I am speculating that it was the Japanese variety of Aconite (japonicum or aizuense), which is a known poison of the day. Some have suggested fugu fish which I doubt, as the poison is neutralised by contact with oxygen over 24hrs. There is no hard and fast rule about poison tipped shuriken. Some were, most weren't, depended upon the user and the situation. I agree with the above. "Could easily kill himself" sounds a bit incompetent, considering these people trained with weapons with the purpose to kill... --Taishanglao 02:58, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

From what I've read poison COULD be used but the best thing for a blade to be coated with was rust, which in the days before tetanus shots and antibiotics, proved to be a great deterrant to any opponent. As the article states the shuriken were used as a deterrant and a distractionary aid.

Btw has anyone heard of metsubushi blinding eggs? I think both were used as part of some sort of skill - gotonpo. Hmm... Dessydes 05:46, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

--- The Japanese did not have any concept of tetanus nor associated the infection with rust for a couple of reasons, 1) tetanus was known until the discovery of bacteria in the late 1800's. 2) Rust wasn't as commonly known as in our time because metal was relatively scarce in feudal Japan times, and was used more carefully than we perhaps treat it today, 3) Metal from Pre-industrialised Japan was very poor quality, and very low in iron content (a major factor in rusting), and the unusual smelting process the Japanese developed produced a type of steel that was less prone to rusting than the common steel available today. 4) Your assumption that rust automatically causes infection, worse than or more prevalent than a poison is flawed, because the tetanus bacteria is found in soil, and is transmitted to the body when people's skin is punctured and comes into contact with the bacteria from the ground. So a rusty nail itself will not cause infection, it has to have been decaying in moist soil that has the bacteria present, for it to be any infection risk to someone who is piered with a metal object. The Japanese did not consciously "rust" metal weapons to cause infection.

While I am no expert on medieval poisons, I know of the use of Japanese Aconite, fugu, and another nasty poison which was a blend of 3 everyday substances, I will have to check my notes to recall exactly what they were, but it was something like oyster, chicken blood and horse manure, which when mixed and went off, produced a cocktail of so many bacteria in a single infection, it made it virtually impossible for traditional folk medicine to remedy.

I know of no evidence to suggest "rust" was deliberately used as a poison, so it should not be stated as so in this articles, until you can produce documentation that proves otherwise.

Metsubishi (sight removers) are part of a small arsenal of unusual, secret weapons (hibuki), commonly associated with the Ninja arts, along with caltrops, explosive powders etc. This includes many items that were thrown. Just because shuriken were a thrown weapon used by Ninja, does not automatically mean this article on shuriken should also by default include other Ninja weapons. Lets get objective. --Taishanglao 02:57, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Samurai and ninja
I don't know about you people, but when I think of those two elements of the feudal Japanese culture, I surely won't see them as the same thing. Ever. Reasons are many. The samurai might have been a social class in the ancient Japan, but they also had their code of honor. A set of guidelines they followed to maintain their reputation. They usually served a master, and when they didn't, it was usually because their honor got tainted for some reason (becoming ronins). Ninjas were hired hands. They used to do all kinds of dirty jobs for money. Honor wasn't an aspect of their lifestyle. I don't think many of them would easily kill themselves for failing on a mission.

That's what I know about the subject, and analyzing the Japanese culture, I don't think I'm very mistaken when I say that. That's why I think that it makes no sense to say 'on the other hand, leaving the "other" out implies that ninja were not samurai - and probably most of them were'. It might be better to leave that "other" there for different reasons, but keep in mind that most of the ninjas were probably not samurai. Sure, maybe I'm generalizing too much here, but think about that. – Kaonashi 02:25, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * I have not read Karl Fridays writings myself nor his sources, but from what I have been told the historians today pretty much agree that ninja were mainly, if not only samurai. The "hired hinds" thing is largely a myth - the myths about ninjas emergen quite early in Japan, and if you today say "Ninja" to an average Japanese he is quite likely to think of ninja as mythical figures with more or less supernatural powers. Ninjutsu was not only the art of being a spy but also of strategy, how to build fortifications, how to best set fire on a castle - and a person doing ninjutsu is a ninja. The most well known ninja is probably Hattori Hanzo. http://www.samurai-archives.com/hanzo.html IMO there are good reasons to not have a wording that says that ninja and samurai were two different groups, which is how most people would read "ninja and samurai". Ninja was not a class, ninja was a military function regardless of who did it. Habj 19:17, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I agree with the fact that strategy was usually a very important aspect of their work. I think we can kind of associate the ninjas with hitmen, since that's what they pretty much charged for, among other things like you mentioned. However, the thing about "mythical figures"... I think that's more of a Western view of the subject. We tend to think of them a little more than they actually were. I don't think the Japanese really think of them as something fantastic. It's far from their reality nowadays, yes, but they'd know better. Anyway, I didn't ask to change the wording. Just sharing my two cents. =]

– Kaonashi 02:08, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I think it may be more constructive if we steer clear of any arguments and dependance upon distinctions between "samurai" and "ninja" when expanding this Wiki entry, firstly because it's straying off the topic of this entry and will hinder objective discussion of the shuriken art itself, and what's more, there is a Wiki entry for Ninja, so such arguments should be resolved there.

Secondly, using such polarised definitions as "Samurai" and "Ninja" may tend to lead discussion of shuriken into the false notion of "Samurai shuriken" such as bo-shuriken, and Ninja shuriken" such as hira-shuriken, or shaken (stars), when in fact there is no such polarisation when it comes to shuriken shapes and designs. For example Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, known as a "samurai" art, has both a bo-shuriken and a hira shuriken as characteristic blades of this art. Iga Ryu, an art known as a "Ninja" art, uses a bo-shuriken as well as the more commonly known hira-shuriken. To confuse matters even more, a famous sword school, Katori Shinto Ryu, a school one would naturally think of as a "samurai" art, has within its curriculum a collection of techniques called "ninjutsu waza".

Thirdly, labelling practitioners of a shuriken art either a samurai or ninja unncessarily implies certain differences in moral or philosphical applications of the use of the shuriken, such as saying "Ninja only used them for distractions", or "samurai only used them as a secondary weapon to their sword", etc. Shuriken were pieces of metal that had a variety of uses, and the skill and knowledge of the practitioner largely determined how the tool was used in combat. Of course, certain schools developed certain uses for the blades that other schools may not have discovered, but this applies on an individual, case-by-case basis, rather than a general Samurai vs. Ninja delineation.

I believe given these three points above, useage of the terms "samurai" and "ninja" are going to be more problematic than any other choice of terminologies. --Taishanglao 05:34, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

How fast?
How fast did they throw them?

studies are inconclusive.--J.A.B. 20:17, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

What studies are these? More information please. Anyway, what sort of question is this? How fast did the blade travel through air? Or how many could be thrown within a certain space of time? For a start, I think the question is irrelevent. The speed was determined by how fast an individual could throw them, and that depended upon one's training. There blades flew through the air within a certain set of limits, and nothing beyond what one would expect as reasonable. The NHK video footage of Yoshinori Kono sensei of Negishi Ryu, shows them flying a quite slow, curved trajectory across 15' - 20' or so to the target. One could easily see and follow with their eye, the passage of the blade when standing laterally to the trajectory.

Within a number of shuriken jutsu schools, there is a principle called "ikkei goken", which roughly translates as "five blades in one breath". The idea of this principle is to be able throw several blades in rapid succession. Whether one could actually throw throw five blades in one breath or not was not the issue, though quite possibly there were talented individuals who could. The point was that there was a mental attitude, or a frame of mind, that one reach when trying to throw rapidly, a frame of mind which would enable one to break free from the simple notion of one blade being thrown, followed by a pause, a breath, then the next.

Finally, speed, as measured either in meters per second or miles per hour etc., was also not a relevent issue within Japanese martial arts. What was more important was an understanding of a concept concerned with martial distance, called maai, whereby it was important to be able to break inside your opponent's rhythm and strike before they struck you. This ability was based upon distance and timing related to how fast the body could move in and out of range to target, not in terms of measurable speed, but in how quickly one could slide or step with the feet.

Speed was not an issue. --Taishanglao 05:53, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Removed section
I am dubious about this section so I've moved it here. I don't think it should be restored unless sources are provided ''...originally designed by the ninja..

''The name 'Shuriken' literally means 'Hand Release Blade'; [Shu - Hand], [Ri - Release], [Ken - Blade]. Tracing back through history to determine the origins of the ninja's unique throwing weapon is difficult, if not impossible. In theory, it can be seen how the four-pointed Senban shuriken, characteristic of the Togakure Ryu of ninjutsu, was perhaps developed from the four-cornered, iron reinforcing plates that backed up the heads of the used in the joining of timbers in castle and fortress construction.

It's cool though huh?


 * I have actually heard of this origin of the shuriken, and it seems reasonable to me. I'll see if I can't find some references for this later - I'd like to expand this article if I could to include some of the mythical aspects (properly noted as myth, of course) as well as as much factual information as I can find about shurikens.

________________________________

The most common way "shuriken" has been written is 手裹剣 where 裹 "ri" means hidden, or covered, so a literal translation would be "blade hidden in the hand". There are some instances, for example Mo En Ryu documents, that write shuriken as 手離剣 where 離 "ri" means release, giving the translation blade released from the hand. The reason for the mixup is quite complex, but nevertheless very interesting, as the explanation reveals much about the history of the usage of shuriken. The implications are that "blade hidden in the hand" is the correct meaning.

As noted, shuriken were not "originally designed by ninja"; that is also another misconception. According to Japanese lore from the Nihon Shoki, it was Prince Yamato-Takeru who threw a cylindrical vegetable, possibly a radish, into the eye a deer, as the first example in literature of throwing objects as a weapon. The origins of this skill however, appear to go back even earlier, to the Chinese mainland. There is no way of knowing who the "original" designers were. There were plenty of innovators throughout history, but to pinpoint shuriken invention to a particular individual in history is simply futile. --Taishanglao 15:01, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Ninja and Shuriken
Seems to be a slight conflict on the front page as to the use of shuriken by ninja. They did in fact use them (often disguised as carpenters tools). They would allow them to rust and leave them unsharpened until a moment before they wanted to attack. Tetanus was a slow and painful death and it didn't take a large wound from a rusted shuriken to spread it. They were also used in hand to hand combat. One of the four points went between the middle and pointer finger, one above the thumb and the other two on the far sides of the palm. This allowed the ninja to punch and tear holes easily with a flick of the wrist.

Sawing?
The main article makes reference to applying a great deal of spin to a thrown shuriken to allow a saw-like effect to cut tendons. While I don't doubt the ability to cut tendons with a thrown shuriken, I somehow doubt that this was imparted due to the high angular speed. I have several replica shurikens (both 4 and 6 point varieties) and have attempted such sawing actions before. First of all, the amount of spin you would have to impart to achieve this effect would have to be very large for an object of that diameter. Second, in order to specifically cut a tendon using that approach, you would need to have aim and timing bordering on the supernatural. I mean, you are throwing a spinning object at the outer border of a moving target, aiming specifically not to hit that edge dead on, but with the edge of your own disk-like projectile. I'm not saying its impossible, but we should probably get some kind of reference for that, as it sounds like some mystical ninja-skill nonsence.

Also, in reference to the shuriken being used as a distraction, I had also heard of the technique of letting the shuriken rust so as to inflict infected wounds. However, as I heard it, the idea that ninjas did this was not unknown, and so when a ninja made a show of throwing one of these at you, he was really trying to get you to dodge or drop to the ground to avoid the potentially deadly projectile, or just to flinch away. This would give the ninja a few valuable seconds to get away (possibly spreading caltrops behind him) or get close enough to kill you with something else. I can't back this up, but its just my $0.02

________

Removed section: "Sawing" effect

The sentences regarding the "saw" effect were removed because it gives the reader the impression that shuriken were not intended to pierce. This is patently untrue. There are many stories in the historical Japanese literature that describe the use of shuriken being effective because of their piercing effect. To say that "contrary to popular culture, it was not intended to "stick" in the target" is misleading to say the least. Firstly, the previous writer is disregarding bo-shuriken altogether by mentioning the spinning action, as this is obviously referring to hira-shuriken, providing they have sharpened edges (which is also a point in contention). Secondly, there is no documentation to support the notion that hira-shuriken were intended to be used as a "flying circular saw" type object. None of the instructors I have had contact with (mostly Japanese if you need to know), have never mentioned any sawing effect with shuriken at all. Furthermore, the main targets of shuriken were the eyes, throat, hands and feet. These were generally the more exposed parts of the body. The sawing effect cutting tendons etc., sounds to me rather a fantasy, because the body and legs were covered by quite heavy clothing, or at least several layers of it, and the tendons one would try to cut in order to disable the opponent (such as what is achieved in kenjutsu) are somewhat protected by it, and the fact that they are situated on the sides and rear parts of the limbs. The main force in throwing a hira shuriken was forward hitting power, enabling deeper piercing of the tips. THe spinning effect served only to stablise the blade in flight. -- Taishanglao 07:56, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Pop culture and image
I was thinking about that popular culture section. Does it really have place on this article? To me, all those references don't sound any notorious at all. They are actually pretty meaningless. I think the entire section should go away. Also, why did the previous image this article used to have got replaced? I think it was pretty good and showed what a shuriken is pretty well, while the current one is dark, confusing, and also pretty ugly. I vote for the old one to come back.--Kaonashi 23:42, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I would hazard a guess that the reason the pop culture section is there at all is because most people's knowledge of shuriken extends no further than what they have experienced in the mass media, and therefore the article would probably be better off without it, since the mass media conceptions of shuriken are so far removed from fact. --Taishanglao 12:28, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to add that the vampire known as Vancha March in the popular Darren Shan novels uses shurikens as his only weapon of choice.


 * By all means, do so. It'll fit in with all the other references that are in that section. I think you're the first so far to ask permission (major kudos for that, btw).

It is in my opinion that this section should be removed or formed into a seperate article. More factual details are needed for this article not media nonsense. We do not live in a fantasy world.

Shaken and Shuriken
I will admit that I am not an expert on this subject by any stretch of the imagination, however when I compare this article with that on Shaken it seems to me that they're actually talking about the same thing. If that is the case, should the two pieces not be merged together? It is far from clear what the difference is, if there is any difference, between bo-shuriken and shaken. Silverthorn

I am not an expert either (despite my name :P), but the kanji for Shaken translates as wheeled-blade, while Shuriken translates as hand-thrown-blade. Thus shaken is another name for hira-shuriken (not bo-shuriken!), linguistically speaking. This is consistent with my own experience. I recommend merging the two articles, with Shaken redirecting to Shuriken as the latter is the more general term. --Rustedshuriken 08:53, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

-- The info in the first line of Shaken is wrong:

>Shaken (車剣, also read kurumaken) are Japanese throwing blades or spikes.

The spikes are bo-shuriken, the flat circular plates are shaken. Both bo shuriken and shaken (also read as kurumaken, also known as hira-shuriken) are types of shuriken, therefore the term shuriken should be the overarching title.

I agree with Rustedshuriken, it would be better to merge "Shaken" with "Shuriken". I suggest any entries entitles 'shaken', 'hira-shuriken', 'bo shuriken' all redirect to Shuriken, as that is the main term. -- Taishanglao 02:14, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Rust
"Corrosion is also a relentless factor in humid Japan, and the rust may be an effective poison if introduced into the bloodstream. "

I've moved this to talk because it's unsubstantiated and doesn't seem likely to me. Iron oxides are not poisonous in the level that would be present on a weapon. Mrestko 08:16, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough, but I've also heard it said that the best deterrent was rust rather than any poison, due to back in the day there were no tetanus shots, antibiotis, etc. Dessydes 13:24, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the arguement against the rust theory. People back then probbly took care of their weapons to avoid rust, because even though rust might poison the opponent, it would also ruin the blade and make it harder to use.Solon Olrek 19:24, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Legality
I think a section should be added on legal issues: importation, sale, ownership, and carrying on one's person in various English-speaking countries and jurisdictions. The following website contains information about Australian laws pertaining to shuriken, as well as links to laws in Virginia and California in the U.S. and laws in Ireland. (I could not get the actual site to load, but this links to a Google cached copy): |The Law Regarding Shuriken MamaGeek (talk/contrib) 14:37, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

i agree completely with this and will look into it--Aaronpark 00:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

(B) Except in a person's dwelling, place of business, or on property under such person's ownership or control, it is unlawful for any person to possess the following:

(1) A firearm or gas or mechanically operated gun;

(2) A bow and arrow, crossbow, or slingshot;

(3) A nunchaku or throwing star; or

(4) A knife as defined in subsection 9-72-010(H).

Source  http://www.ci.broomfield.co.us/code/_DATA/TITLE09/Chapter_9_72_Weapons.html --Aaronpark 00:21, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

In Canada, star shaped shurikens are included in the prohibited arm, and you can't buy/sell/use them. If a Canadian tries to import star shaped shurikns, they will be confiscated at Canadian custom. The law is specific about the star shaped shuriekn, and not applicable to bo-shuriken. 3ken 18:15, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Exactly the same situation in Germany.--Nemissimo (talk) 12:58, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Trivia
In Shinobi games (mega-drive's, at least in Revenge of Shinobi), shurikens are limited, and few (if not with the infinite cheats), making them more a secondary than an primary weapon, thus enforcing the player to stealthy get close to the enemies before they shoot shurikens at you, much more stealthy as a real ninja. 200.230.213.152 04:32, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Hari-gata?
I'm not sure if that's really what needle shuriken are called. The Japanese word for dildo is harigata, so... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.31.58.188 (talk) 02:10, 20 December 2006 (UTC).

Needle shaped shuriken are indeed called "hari-gata" shuriken...it depends on the kanji used. In this case, hari means needle, and gata (kata) means shape or form...just like in Karate. Taishanglao 12:33, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

The image used for the "Hira shuriken" section was deleted since no rationale was given. The uploader's description was with a link to the source, but I'm not sure how to fill out the rationale/licensing. This image is also used in this userbox. It was also. --jh51681 01:41, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Espio?
what about espio? in sonic heroes espio uses a shurikin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.229.131.30 (talk) 03:00, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, he does... He uses massive shuriken that bounces all over the place. But I don't remember him ever doing that in the comics. I assume that Sega made Espio into a ninja-type character due to his chameleon invisibility... But that's not how he was originally. Still, it might be mentionable.
 * -TDF-

Size
Does anyone know what size a shuriken would be? I am not sure... Thanks anyway, -TDF-

legality in the uk?
As i understand it here, it is banned to sell or manufacture shuriken here, however as the definition is strictly that of hira shuriken, bo shuriken can be sold, as long as they are not called shuriken (ridiculous, i know) —Preceding unsigned comment added by UltraMagnus (talk • contribs) 00:52, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Merge
I think the article on shuriken and shaken should be merged. I'm not aware of anything special about the shaken sub-species that it should warrant its own article. As it stands, the current article on shaken is shorter than its section here, and the shaken article refers to the shuriken article for more information.--Xanzzibar (talk) 05:03, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Shaken redirect
I was trying to find information on car inspections in Japan, which are romanized as Shaken. I tried going to the page with that name, figuring I'd end up on a disambiguation page, but instead I got redirected to Shuriken!

Can someone please replace the redirect with a more useful disambiguation page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by PhennPhawcks (talk • contribs) 18:01, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Tellie Tubby
Does the mention of Tellie Tubby belong in this article? I couldn't' find a definition that related it to the subject of shuriken. Kendergirl (talk) 17:23, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

In popular culture (trivia stuff)
Shuriken are popularly believed to have been used by Japanese ninja. They can be seen in a wide range of modern media set in both modern and ancient settings. They have been used by comic book characters such as Batman, Anarky, Elektra, Miho and Bullseye; video games such as Mortal Kombat: Deception, Ninja Gaiden, Tenchu, Shadow Warrior and The Revenge of Shinobi; anime series such as the ninja of Naruto, Jezmine from Conan the Adventurer; and films such as 3 Ninjas. While shuriken are almost always associated with ninja and to a lesser extent other thieves and assassins, they are sometimes seen as wholly separate from that context: for instance, Vancha March, a vampire-warrior from Darren Shan's novels uses shuriken as his only weapon of choice. In Painkiller, the electrodriver gun shoots shuriken and lightning, and it is even possible to fire electrified shuriken. Occasionally, the use of shuriken does not even involve a human throwing them: In the PC game Tyrian 2000, for example, there is a secret mode which features guns that fire shuriken, and in the Nintendo64 game Jet Force Gemini there are shuriken that home in on targets.

In film and television

 * In the 2003 movie The Last Samurai, hira-shuriken appear briefly during the ninja attack on Katsumoto's village. One is shown being thrown by a ninja and striking a samurai target.
 * In the 2002 Japanese Super Sentai series Ninpuu Sentai Hurricaneger, the sixth and final Ranger to appear was Tenkuu Ninja Shurikenger. (His American-speaking counterpart in the 2003 series Power Rangers: Ninja Storm was known as the Green Samurai Ranger.) The symbol on Shurikenger's Shinobi Medal / Green Samurai Ranger's Power Disc was a green eight-point hira-shuriken. Also in Hurricaneger, the three Hurricaneger fired shuriken from their Hurricane Gyro henshin devices (where in Ninja Storm they are replaced with lasers due to US television regulations).
 * In the anime Naruto, shuriken are many of the characters' primary weapon, along with kunai.
 * In Gamera tai daiakuju Giron (1969) aka Attack of the Monsters (Gamera vs. Guiron), Guiron fires four-point shuriken from the sides of his head.
 * In You Only Live Twice, the character Tiger Tanaka saves James Bond from being killed by Blofeld's gun by means of a throwing star.
 * In Tomorrow Never Dies, the character Wai Lin saves James Bond from being shot by a henchmen using a throwing star.
 * In the film Alien vs. Predator, the predator disc changed from an actual disc into a shuriken-style throwing star.
 * In the film Hot Rod, during a fight scene between Rod and his father, the latter throws a shuriken at Rod that gets embedded in his chest.
 * In the South Park episode "Good Times with Weapons," Kenny is depicted wielding a pair of shuriken, and maiming Butters with them.
 * The character Mai, from the television show Avatar: The Last Airbender seems to be an expert in shurikenjutsu. She has been shown using both bo-shuriken and hiro-shuriken.
 * In Transformers Animated, the cyberninja Prowl uses shuriken formed from the rims of his motorcycle alt.
 * In "The Hunted (1995 film)", Paul Racine (Christopher Lambert) gets assaulted with "Makatao" style Shuriken when he come back to fetch his keys, after his one night stand with Kirina (Joan Chen), in her flat.
 * Later on in the same Film "The Hunted (1995 film)", Takeda (Yoshio Harada), on the way to Okinawa with his wife (Yoko Shimada) and Paul Racine (Christopher Lambert) in a Bullet train, encounters a ninja group of the ruthless killer Kinjo (John Lone), and block all the thrown Shurikens with his Katana.

In games

 * In Shinobi (arcade game), Joe Musashi's primary weapon is the shuriken.
 * In the GamesWorkshop tabletop board game Warhammer 40,000, the Eldar race use guns that shoot razor-sharp rounded shuriken.
 * In Ninja Gaiden 2, shuriken can be used as a secondary weapon.
 * In the game Aero Fighters for the SNES, The FSX fighter jet shoots shuriken shaped lasers, and when you get a certain number of ugrades, tha laers ae shaped like kunai.
 * In Mega Man Zero and Mega Man ZX, Phantom and Model P/Px use shuriken as a weapon. Phantom's signature move is the ability to create a giant shuriken and ride on it, granting him the ability to fly. In ZX, Model P/Px can use the shuriken as a sort of protective boomerang that not only goes forward, but circles around the character for a brief time before disappearing.
 * In The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, the player can buy and wield "throwing stars" made out of various materials.
 * In Final Fantasy IV, the playable character Edge uses an ability called "throw" to toss various items at opponents, such as shurikens.
 * In Final Fantasy VI, the playable character Shadow uses the same "throw" ability as Edge to toss various items at opponents, such as shurikens.
 * In Final Fantasy VII, Yuffie uses shuriken as her primary weapon, along with a variety of other throwing and improvised weapons.
 * In Final Fantasy IX, Amarant uses the "throw" ability to fling items at opponents, shurikens and pinwheels being some of the strongest.
 * In Mortal Kombat, Noob Saibot uses shuriken as throwing weapons.
 * In No One Lives Forever 2, shuriken are one of the many weapons Cate Archer is able to use.
 * In Shadow Warrior, Lo wang use shuriken as weapon, and states: "I love the shuriken"

In English-language literature

 * In Midnight: A Gangster Love Story by Sister Souljah, the eponymous protagonist's visit to an apple orchard in upstate New York culminates with an unrealistic visit to a nearby blacksmith's shop, where he asks to have a shuriken made to his specifications.
 * In The Day of the Triffids, triffid guns shoot small shuriken that cut off triffid's stingers.
 * In Pride and prejudice and zombies, shuriken are used to fight the unmentionable.
 * In Neuromancer by William Gibson, the protagonist, Case, is fascinated by shuriken. He is later bought one by Molly.
 * IN Sam Noir, the title character's love interest, Jasmine, is killed by four throwing stars in the back.

In music

 * French hip-hop emcee Shurik'n is named after shuriken.

What about Shang-Hi Noon? there is a scene where A Star shaped badge is used as a shuriken is commonly portrayed. 72.49.178.126 (talk) 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Other SinoSphere countries.
What about the appearance of Shuriken-stars in other east-Asian countries & Viet-Nam. that is not mentioned in the article.

I recently saw refferences to North-Korean shuriken stars both ancient and modern. --82.134.154.25 (talk) 19:41, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't the Chinese have a similar weapon, known as a qanzi?  TREKphiler   any time you're ready, Uhura  12:19, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

References for editors to read

 * 1 http://books.google.com/books?id=NoEnMaz0NBIC&pg=PA65&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=xAEfTaC2JISdlgf6raCDDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=shuriken&f=false Art of Throwing: Practical Instruction for Better Techniques, Amante P. Marinas, Tuttle Publishing, 2007
 * 2 http://books.google.com/books?id=ZzIXkFec0e8C&pg=PA159&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=xAEfTaC2JISdlgf6raCDDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=shuriken&f=false Classical weaponry of Japan: special weapons and tactics of the martial arts, Serge Mol, Kodansha International, 2003
 * 3 http://books.google.com/books?id=bNsDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA60&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=xAEfTaC2JISdlgf6raCDDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDoQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=shuriken&f=true Black Belt Jun 1984
 * 4 http://books.google.com/books?id=ZNwDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA70&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=xAEfTaC2JISdlgf6raCDDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=shuriken&f=false Black Belt Apr 1985
 * 5 http://books.google.com/books?id=sBWasQSsb-UC&pg=PA206&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=xAEfTaC2JISdlgf6raCDDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFIQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=shuriken&f=false Samurai fighting arts: the spirit and the practice, Fumon Tanaka, Kodansha International, 2003
 * 6 http://books.google.com/books?id=rJiwHqqF0RoC&pg=PT119&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=rwIfTeumPIKclgeK9Nz-Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCYQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=shuriken&f=false Ask a Ninja Presents the Ninja Handbook: This Book Looks Forward to Killing You Soon, Douglas Sarine, Kent Nichols, Random House, Inc., 2008
 * 7 http://books.google.com/books?id=-7_YgBjyEE0C&pg=PA99&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=rwIfTeumPIKclgeK9Nz-Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDkQ6AEwBDgK#v=onepage&q&f=false Ninja Weapons: Chain and Shuriken, Charles V. Gruzanski, Tuttle Publishing, 1991
 * 8 http://books.google.com/books?id=HfSQ59kjEioC&pg=PA72&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=rwIfTeumPIKclgeK9Nz-Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBTgK#v=onepage&q=shuriken&f=false
 * 9 http://books.google.com/books?id=WqSsQBjSypIC&q=shuriken&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=rwIfTeumPIKclgeK9Nz-Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CE4Q6AEwCDgK
 * 10 http://books.google.com/books?id=GsSMsu21CQkC&pg=PA94&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=MAMfTfuDM4P_8AbsyNW2Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CEgQ6AEwBjgU#v=onepage&q=shuriken&f=false
 * 11 http://books.google.com/books?id=luDcP8E5SFoC&pg=PA134&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=MAMfTfuDM4P_8AbsyNW2Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CE0Q6AEwBzgU#v=onepage&q=shuriken&f=false
 * 12 http://books.google.com/books?id=1j_Ffk3qO0kC&pg=PA132&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=MAMfTfuDM4P_8AbsyNW2Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CFIQ6AEwCDgU#v=onepage&q=shuriken&f=false
 * 13 http://books.google.com/books?id=FPiUff2BGBkC&pg=PA259&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=nwMfTZXXOsKC8gaW9PXYDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAzge#v=onepage&q=shuriken&f=false
 * 14 http://books.google.com/books?id=p2QnPijAEmEC&pg=PA894&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=nwMfTZXXOsKC8gaW9PXYDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CE0Q6AEwCDge#v=onepage&q=shuriken&f=false
 * 15 http://books.google.com/books?id=i0ni1NmbYe0C&pg=PA166&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=SAQfTZSsGYK0lQf514XoCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDkQ6AEwBDgy#v=onepage&q=shuriken&f=false
 * 16 http://books.google.com/books?id=Fdxk3Mbe0ckC&pg=PA61&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=SAQfTZSsGYK0lQf514XoCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CE4Q6AEwCDgy#v=onepage&q=shuriken&f=false
 * 17 http://books.google.com/books?id=JXfVINMfbx8C&pg=PA122&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=SAQfTZSsGYK0lQf514XoCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CEMQ6AEwBjgy#v=onepage&q=shuriken&f=false
 * 18 http://books.google.com/books?id=MuNLyoXB-8oC&pg=PA61&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=wAQfTbT7BYGglAeqxNG_DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwADg8#v=onepage&q=shuriken&f=false
 * 19 http://books.google.com/books?id=n1heJafilrAC&pg=PA67&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=GwUfTazUDYG0lQfytcntCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwADhQ#v=onepage&q=shuriken&f=true
 * 20 http://books.google.com/books?id=2hOCl1hM6SQC&pg=PT69&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=GwUfTazUDYG0lQfytcntCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAjhQ#v=onepage&q=shuriken&f=true
 * 21 http://books.google.com/books?id=_o73NOjb4p4C&pg=RA1-PA127&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=oQUfTa-GFcqr8AbG2bnrDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCYQ6AEwADha#v=onepage&q=shuriken&f=false
 * 22 http://books.google.com/books?id=BlT-x4vqaC4C&pg=PA100&dq=shuriken&hl=en&ei=oQUfTa-GFcqr8AbG2bnrDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CEAQ6AEwBTha#v=onepage&q=shuriken&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samuraiantiqueworld (talk • contribs) 10:50, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

historical value has increased?
What is this sentence (under Usage) supposed to mean? "Shuriken are a simple weapon, but their historical value, . . ., has increased." — Preceding unsigned comment added by QuantumOfHistory (talk • contribs) 09:34, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Error needing correction
The following looks like an error: the well-known "throwing aren't" although what it should be I do not know. Over to you! Muleiolenimi (talk) 14:51, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Steve Jobs had shuriken confiscated?
There were several reports published by mainstream news outlets that Steve Jobs had ninja stars confiscated in Japan:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-14/steve-jobs-stopped-at-japan-airport-over-ninja-stars-spa-says.html

http://fortune.com/2010/09/14/report-steve-jobs-stopped-at-japan-airport-for-carrying-ninja-stars/

Should this be included in the article? 69.65.91.78 (talk) 20:01, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

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Folding shuriken
It is one of the classes in group of folding throwers (the other one being fictional glaives). As of now they are toys and collectibles but that could change in the future with the advancement in technology. I believe it deserves it's own section - couple of sentences and an image.

===In fiction

chinese (throwing) stars and swallow tail knives and throwing spike,needle,thorn ?
1. 鏢星​ / Chinese Throwing Stars / PIAO HSING / BIAO XING. Throwing stars are 3, 5, & 8 pointed to represent The 3 Forces, 5 Elements, and the 8 Trigrams. source

2. There are also weapons that could be considered a variation of bo-shuriken: THORNS & NEEDLES / 飞针 / FEI CHEN / FEI ZHEN. There are a few types of Needles and Thorns - range from very small needles to metal spikes over half a foot in length. source

3. Also very similar weapon is 燕​​子飞刀​ / Swallow Tail Flying Knives aka Swallow Tail Darts / YEN TZU FEI TAO / YAN ZI FEI DAO. source

4. There is also a weapon called "throwing spike" that looks similar to bo-shuriken or throwing needle. 89.201.235.112 (talk) 09:13, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

question is whether it's the same thing or different from shuriken. Regardless, it should be mentioned in the article. 89.201.201.113 (talk) 18:40, 14 November 2020 (UTC)