Talk:Si Inthrathit

References "Bolt from the Blue!"


Siamese Heritage Trust has put free PDFs on line of the Journal of the Siam Society (JSS) going back to the first in 1904. In Retrospect', p.1 of the above, Dhani writes: "Their first centre of any considerable magnitude was around Snkhothai, known by tho name of the state of Sajjanälai Sukhothai. Its origin has been recorded in an inscription (1) the gist of which was that a Thai chief, Khun Bang Klāng Thao, in alliance with another Thai prince rose against the Khmer and proclaimed their indepen-.... — 1. cf. Coedès, Recueil des inscriptions du Siam, Vol. I, p. 7.[Language: French.  Publisher: Bangkok times press, 1924-] Dhani thus gives a reference for the lede as written, but begs the question of Thao vs. Hao. We already have Thai honorific Sri/Si; honorific Thao' is right above it, but honorifics go before'' a name, not at the end. Given that we're dealing with a stone inscription and since the initial characters are so similar, it is no great leap to see Thao (ทาว) was a misreading of Hao (หาว). I don't yet have a reference for who first noted the discrepancy, but I do see one with the translation of Pho Khun Bang Klang Hao (พ่อขุนบางกลางหาว) as Lord Who Rules Sky. Phokhun may be streatched to mean Lord, and Bangklang, as empty or clear sky, but Hao as written simply means yawn. Adding tone-marker-2 to make it ห้าว gives a different word that means audacious, bold; which puts me in mind of more accurate translation being the the English phrase, "Bolt from the Blue!"

JSS does have a reference for Pho Khun (พ่อขุน) as a kinship-like honorific for a king or chieftain that could be added above the aforementioned entry for Thao. Table 1 : Terms indicating rank, title or class from early Siamese sources
 * Terwiel, Barend Jan. JSS Vol. 71.0 1983 Ahom and the Study of Early Thai Society
 * khun: ruler of a fortified town and its surrounding villages, together called a mu'ang.
 * In older sources the prefix phō ("father") is sometimes used as well.

This article should also give the Thai spelling for Pho Khun Sri Indraditya (พ่อขุนศรีอินทราทิตย์), and make clear that this is an ex-post-facto regnal name derived from Indra (พระอินทร์), god of war and of thunderstorms, whose weapon is the lightning bolt; suffixed with -ทิตย์ from พระอาทิตย์ sun; yet again putting me in mind of "Bolt from the Blue!" —Pawyilee (talk) 15:50, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
 * More

—Pawyilee (talk) 16:02, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
 * JSS Vol. 14.1 1921. Coedes, G. The Origins of the Sukhodaya Dynasty
 * JSS Vol. 61.1 1973. Chand Chirayu Rajani, M.C. Review Article: Griswold and Prasert EHS 1-8.
 * JSS Vol. 61.2 1973. Chand Chirayu Rajani, M.C. Review Article: Griswold and Prasert EHS 9 and 10

Elder brother
Ban Mueang died and so the Kingdom went to Ram Kamhaeng Maharat. Stjohn1970 (talk) 10:40, 17 January 2023 (UTC)