Talk:Sibe people

comment
(I hope this is the right page for leaving comments) Just a comment about the pinyin for Xibo. My dictionary as well as the French Wikipedia article both state that the pronunciation of 锡 should be the second tone: xi2. Would any Chinese speakers/sinophones be able to confirm this? Thank you 137.122.30.245 21:14, 15 September 2007 (UTC)yue_chu

I think Siberia comes from Sibir Khanate, not the Sibo. --Nanshu 00:28, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * From The Manchus by Pamela Kyle Crossley, Blackwell Publishers' "The Peoples of Asia" series, Cambridge MA, 1997, page 213:

"...the Sibo...were well known to the Russians moving toward the Pacific, who named Siberia after them." Dr. Crossley is professor of history at Dartmouth College. I'm not saying that it is definitely so (hence the neutral tone of my sentence in the article), just that some specialists in the field believe it so.

Fire Star 05:16, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I can't believe that the Sibo had something to do with Siberia. They originated in Manchuria and were organized into banners as New Manchus (ice manju). Some of them were stationed in East Turkestan. I can hardly find relationships between the Sibo and Siberia. --Nanshu 01:01, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

You should certainly put something to that effect in the article, and maybe something about the alternate theory, too. Who knows? Dr. Crossley seems a good source, but mistakes happen. I only said "It is believed," another perspective from another Manchu specialist would only improve the article, IMO. Cheers, Fire Star 03:52, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * It seems a bit peculiar to me. You'd expect Dr. Crossley not to confuse Siberia with the Russian Far East, but this does sound rather like such a confusion, which is fairly common in my experience. Andrewa 6 July 2005 14:05 (UTC)

Does Khorchin in this article refer to the Jurchen? prat 22:57, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

No, the Khorchin are a group of Mongols living in eastern Inner Mongolia. They were influential during the Qing, and in fact, emperor Kangxi's grandmother was a Khorchin Mongol. --149.159.3.53 01:44, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Another possible and more likely origin of the word Siberia was XianBi (prounced as Sin Bi in Old Chinese). XianBi was one of the two groups (along with Wu Wan) of the Tong Hu (Tungus) people after they were defeated by the Huns.  They later found many smaller states ruling todays' Mongolia, Manchuria and Soviet Far East before entered northern China and found the Wei, Shui and Tang dynasties and in effect ruled most of China and Central Asia for over 1000 years.  The Khitans, the Xi Xia ruling family and Mongols were part of the XianBi confederation.


 * Karolus 2006/10/12

Xibo food
I found: WhisperToMe (talk) 20:58, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Schmitt, Kellie. "New Shanghai restaurant to serve Xibo minority food." CNN. 11 May 2010.

Kangxi's extermination of the Manchu Hoifan (Hoifa) and Ula tribes after they rebelled against the Qing
Page 36

http://books.google.com/books?id=KHwPAAAAYAAJ&q=N.N.+Krotkov+mentions+in+his+memoirs+that+in+the+thirty+fifth+year+of+the+Emperor+Kangxi's+reign+(1697)+the+Manchu+tribe+Hoifan+(Hoifa)+rebelled+against+the+Qing+authorities+and+was+exterminated+by+the+regular+forces,+and+in+the+forty-first+year+of+the+Emperor+Kangxi's+rule+(1703)+the+Manchu+tribe+Ula+ceased+to+exist+(Krotkov+,+191+1-1912:1+17-37).+The+rebellions+of+the+tribes+Hoifan+and+Ula+took+place+at+the+time+when+the+Sibe's+resettlement+had+been+proceeding,+and+the+coincidence&dq=N.N.+Krotkov+mentions+in+his+memoirs+that+in+the+thirty+fifth+year+of+the+Emperor+Kangxi's+reign+(1697)+the+Manchu+tribe+Hoifan+(Hoifa)+rebelled+against+the+Qing+authorities+and+was+exterminated+by+the+regular+forces,+and+in+the+forty-first+year+of+the+Emperor+Kangxi's+rule+(1703)+the+Manchu+tribe+Ula+ceased+to+exist+(Krotkov+,+191+1-1912:1+17-37).+The+rebellions+of+the+tribes+Hoifan+and+Ula+took+place+at+the+time+when+the+Sibe's+resettlement+had+been+proceeding,+and+the+coincidence&hl=en&sa=X&ei=dlpoU_3EG-7isATt24EY&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA

http://books.google.com/books?ei=dlpoU_3EG-7isATt24EY&id=KHwPAAAAYAAJ&dq=N.N.+Krotkov+mentions+in+his+memoirs+that+in+the+thirty+fifth+year+of+the+Emperor+Kangxi%27s+reign+%281697%29+the+Manchu+tribe+Hoifan+%28Hoifa%29+rebelled+against+the+Qing+authorities+and+was+exterminated+by+the+regular+forces%2C+and+in+the+forty-first+year+of+the+Emperor+Kangxi%27s+rule+%281703%29+the+Manchu+tribe+Ula+ceased+to+exist+%28Krotkov+%2C+191+1-1912%3A1+17-37%29.+The+rebellions+of+the+tribes+Hoifan+and+Ula+took+place+at+the+time+when+the+Sibe%27s+resettlement+had+been+proceeding%2C+and+the+coincidence&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=ceased+exist+rebellions

Title	Handbook of Oriental Studies. Section 8 Uralic & Central Asian Studies, Manchu Grammar Volume 7 of Handbook of Oriental Studies Volume 7 of Handbook of Oriental Studies. Section 8 Uralic and Central Asian Studies Volume 7 of Handbook of oriental studies : Sect. 8, Central Asia / Handbuch der Orientalistik / 8 Volume 7 of Handbuch der Orientalistik. Achte Abteilung, Handbook of Uralic studies Volume 7 of Handbuch der Orientalistik: Achte Abteilung, Central Asia Handbuch der Orientalistik: Zentralasien Editor	Liliya M. Gorelova Publisher	Brill Academic Pub, 2002 Original from	the University of Virginia Digitized	Oct 17, 2007 ISBN 9004123075, 9789004123076 Length	600 pages Subjects	History › Europe › General

04:18, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Forced deporation to Xinjiang by the Qing
Page 37

http://books.google.com/books?id=KHwPAAAAYAAJ&q=Valley+of+Xinjiang+to+colonize+Jungaria,+where+their+descendants+still+live+today.+It+is+as+yet+unclear+why+the+Sibes+were+chosen+for+this+purpose+unless+it+was+their+opposition+to+the+ruling+Manchu+Dynasty+(Lebedeva+%26+Gorelova,+1994:10-1).+In+the+document+number+seven+of+the+above-mentioned+collection+there+is+information+about+disor%C2%AD+der+among+the+Sibes.+It+is+also+mentioned+that+the+Qiqihar+Sibe+companies’+commanders+and+their+officers+were+removed+from+their+posts.+During+their+transfer+from+Mukden+to+the+Ili+Valley,+the+Sibes+were+convoyed+by+Manchu+regular+forces+of+eight+hundred+officers+and+men.+All+these+facts+corroborate+the+compulsory+nature+of+the+Sibe’s+transfer+to+Xinjiang+(SU).&dq=Valley+of+Xinjiang+to+colonize+Jungaria,+where+their+descendants+still+live+today.+It+is+as+yet+unclear+why+the+Sibes+were+chosen+for+this+purpose+unless+it+was+their+opposition+to+the+ruling+Manchu+Dynasty+(Lebedeva+%26+Gorelova,+1994:10-1).+In+the+document+number+seven+of+the+above-mentioned+collection+there+is+information+about+disor%C2%AD+der+among+the+Sibes.+It+is+also+mentioned+that+the+Qiqihar+Sibe+companies’+commanders+and+their+officers+were+removed+from+their+posts.+During+their+transfer+from+Mukden+to+the+Ili+Valley,+the+Sibes+were+convoyed+by+Manchu+regular+forces+of+eight+hundred+officers+and+men.+All+these+facts+corroborate+the+compulsory+nature+of+the+Sibe’s+transfer+to+Xinjiang+(SU).&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Rl9oU_ebHe3QsQSPw4GADQ&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA

http://books.google.com/books?id=KHwPAAAAYAAJ&q=It+is+as+yet+unclear+why+the+Sibes+were+chosen+for+this+purpose+unless+it+was+their+opposition+to+the+ruling+Manchu+Dynasty+(Lebedeva+%26+Gorelova,+1994:10-1).+In+the+document+...+During+their+transfer+from+Mukden+to+the+Hi+Valley,+the+Sibes+were+convoyed+by+Manchu+regular+forces+of+eight+hundred+officers+and+men.+All+these+facts+corroborate+the+compulsory+nature+of+the+Sibe's+transfer+to+Xinjiang+(+SU).&dq=It+is+as+yet+unclear+why+the+Sibes+were+chosen+for+this+purpose+unless+it+was+their+opposition+to+the+ruling+Manchu+Dynasty+(Lebedeva+%26+Gorelova,+1994:10-1).+In+the+document+...+During+their+transfer+from+Mukden+to+the+Hi+Valley,+the+Sibes+were+convoyed+by+Manchu+regular+forces+of+eight+hundred+officers+and+men.+All+these+facts+corroborate+the+compulsory+nature+of+the+Sibe's+transfer+to+Xinjiang+(+SU).&hl=en&sa=X&ei=I2RpU-bHLIGmyQG4yIC4Cw&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA

http://books.google.com/books?id=KHwPAAAAYAAJ&q=Even+at+the+end+of+the+ninteenth+century+Xinjiang+was+a+place+where+bannermen+were+sent+for+their+faults,+a+place+for+...+of+the+authorities,+%22they+would+take+his+name+off+the+Bannerman+register+and+send+him+to+Xinjiang+or+Yunnan%22+(Lao+She,++...&dq=Even+at+the+end+of+the+ninteenth+century+Xinjiang+was+a+place+where+bannermen+were+sent+for+their+faults,+a+place+for+...+of+the+authorities,+%22they+would+take+his+name+off+the+Bannerman+register+and+send+him+to+Xinjiang+or+Yunnan%22+(Lao+She,++...&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qWBoU4OMO8rLsASokoFY&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA

http://books.google.com/books?id=KHwPAAAAYAAJ&q=In+Xinjiang+the+Sibes+were+engaged+only+in+agriculture.+They+sowed+wheat,+barley+and+millet,+cultivated+onions,+garlic,+aubergine,+cucumbers,+and+other+vegetables+and+grew+corn,+tobacco-plant+and+poppy+as+well.+As+food+they+used+farm+produce,+fish,+and+very+rarely+meat.+Their+clothes+did+not+differ+from+those+of+the+Chinese.&dq=In+Xinjiang+the+Sibes+were+engaged+only+in+agriculture.+They+sowed+wheat,+barley+and+millet,+cultivated+onions,+garlic,+aubergine,+cucumbers,+and+other+vegetables+and+grew+corn,+tobacco-plant+and+poppy+as+well.+As+food+they+used+farm+produce,+fish,+and+very+rarely+meat.+Their+clothes+did+not+differ+from+those+of+the+Chinese.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=F2NpU77rE6PkyQHip4CIAw&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA

Handbook of Oriental Studies. Section 8 Uralic & Central Asian Studies, Manchu Grammar Volume 7 of Handbook of Oriental Studies Volume 7 of Handbook of Oriental Studies. Section 8 Uralic and Central Asian Studies Volume 7 of Handbook of oriental studies : Sect. 8, Central Asia / Handbuch der Orientalistik / 8 Volume 7 of Handbuch der Orientalistik. Achte Abteilung, Handbook of Uralic studies Volume 7 of Handbuch der Orientalistik: Achte Abteilung, Central Asia Handbuch der Orientalistik: Zentralasien Editor	Liliya M. Gorelova Publisher	Brill Academic Pub, 2002 Original from	the University of Virginia Digitized	Oct 17, 2007 ISBN 9004123075, 9789004123076



Rajmaan (talk) 00:02, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Qing dynasty Aisin Gioro Y chromosome DNA found in Xibe
Aisin Gioro Y chomosome DNA was found in "Xibe, Outer Mongolians, Inner Mongolians, Ewenki, Oroqen, Manchu, and Hezhe" males and number around 1 million people. Their ancestor was Nurhaci's grandfather Giocangga, whose descendants made up the Qing dynasty nobility. But the Y chromosome was not found in the general Han Chinese population.

The Y chromosome cluster is specifically C3c, part of the General Haplogroup C-M217, which Genghis Khan's lineage is a part of, although the Manchu Aisin Gioro Y chromosome is part of a different cluster than Genghis Khan's

The reason it spread among these specific minority groups, but not among the Han Chinese population, is because the Qing Manchu nobility was concentrated specifically in the ethnically Manchu Eight Banners and not in the Mongolian and Han Eight Banners, and the specific ethnic groups which made up the Manchu Eight banners were "Manchu, Mongolian, Daur, Oroqen, Ewenki, Xibe".

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1285168/

http://www.cell.com/ajhg/pdf/S0002-9297(07)63394-1.pdf

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929707633941

http://www.genebase.com/learning/article/23

Rajmaan (talk) 21:35, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Images
http://books.google.com/books?id=0k4EAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA37-IA2#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=0k4EAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA38-IA2#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=GKYVAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA37#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=GKYVAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA38#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 04:27, 31 August 2014 (UTC)