Talk:Sicanje

tattoing also the Vlachs from Greece
A similar custom is documented in Greece as im aware among the Greek Vlachs.Itis called stavrotypoma(Crossprint). The Vlach women made the sign of the cross as a tatoo between the forehead an the beginning of the nose.The reason for the tatoo was to seperate themselves(Orthodox Christians) from the Turks who were muslims and because if they made the tatoo the Turks would not persecute them just like in Bosnia and Herzegovina.Also in Greek and in Vlach language there is phrase that comes from this custom: I ll hit you in the cross! [(Θα σεβαρέσω στο σταυρό!)(Va tsa dau tu framti!)] and also the location of the tatoo is commonly called as cross in greek. Here is a photo from an old vlachophone woman in Greece. http://www.vlahoi.net/v4/gallery/displayimage.php?album=15&pid=27#top_display_media and article in greek http://www.vlahoi.net/v4/latest-articles/15---/33-t---.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.65.14.197 (talk) 06:19, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Cultural Appropriation by western Europeans:

I think that some mention should be made in the article about the recent growing popularity and use of these tradition indigenous Croatian and Balkan style tattoo designs. This issue is that these same western Europeans frauduently claim they are “Viking” tattoos which at the very least is ignorant, the worst, another racist form of cultural appropriation.


 * Hello, I am currently researching more on this subject and will expand the page soon, but I'm not sure that claims of cultural appropriation or racism are accurate. Jesuislafete (talk) 22:09, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Could somebody explain me why the article mentions Bosnian women? This was / is an indigenous Christian Croatian custom in Bosnia-Herzegovina and to a lesser extent the Orthodox Christians. My grandmother had this kind of tattoo on her arm being a Croatian woman born in Herzegovina. So mentionning Bosnian women is simply not correct. A Bosnian woman can be muslem, Serb or Croatian as in Bosnia-Herzegovina live 3 nations (approved by the Constitution). Why would a muslim woman tattoo a cross or another Christian simbol on her hands, forehead or arms ?? This has nothing to do with nationalism but are simply historical facts. Even the Bosnian article calls it a custom of the Croatian women from Bosnia-Herzegovina. Thank you to edit it correctly, otherwise i will correct it. By the way, this kind of tatooing is called sicanje which is a word in Ikavian-dialect. This dialect is mostly spoken by Croatians. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:1812:519:3600:E4CB:D093:6350:95FF (talk) 19:59, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

More sources
--Jesuislafete (talk) 02:56, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
 * 1. Article from Bosnia Daily
 * 2. DW.com article
 * 3. Slobodna Evropa titled "tetovirane bake"
 * 4. "TETOVAŽE KATOLIKA U SREDNJOJ BOSNI -SIMBOLIČKI ORNAMENT DUHA I TIJELA" from the Filozofski fakultet Sveučilišta u Mostaru
 * 5. In(k)scribed Identities: A Sociological Analysis of Catholic Croat Tattoos

Recent reverts
I'm not gonna insist on edit-warring, however, I find your edits lacking a proper explanation.

Your first revert was explains as follows: "ationalistic pov sourced in sensationalistic media pieces - this custom is older then even Christianity among Bosnian populace itself".

(1) Why do you say that the deleted content was nationalistic? (2) Why do you say the media used as a source are "sensationalistic"? (3) The claim that the custom of tattooing among the wider Bosnian populace is older than Christianity is actually supported by what sources?

Then, after I reverted this edit of yours, which in itself is actually sensationalistic and lacking any evidence whatsoever, you deleted the said content again with this explanation: "sources that you are defending are sensationalist (mostly right-wing) media claptrap, find a scholarly research which claims something like this and it will be OK".

And this is supported by what evidence? The media used are, as far as I'm concerned ok. The sources used aren't included in WP:RSPSOURCES as generally unreliable, deprecated or blacklisted. I don't see any "nationalistic" or "sensationalistic" content. Further, as I can see, Ljportal is not the original source. The original source is actually Večernji list, which is quite reliable newspaper in Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina, not "nationalistic" or "sensationalistic". And what is nationalistic about this front page - https://www.croatiaweek.com/?

You made a load of biased, unsupported claims which require proof and thorough explanation.

Further, the sources were there for six months, meaning the article enjoyed relative stability over a longer period of time... So, your edits required previous explanation. --Governor Sheng (talk) 15:42, 13 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Article of this kind and nature, with such an extraordinary (and controversial if not outright antagonistic) claims, requires academic source(s) and firm ones, not a Croatian daily news portal(s), usually described as a right-wing and nationalistic media outlet at that. In cases like this, media reports and opinions can be used only as tertiary source, no more no less. ౪ Santa ౪  99°  20:01, 13 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Who characterised Večernji list as a right-wing newspaper? --Governor Sheng (talk) 01:34, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 * eurotopics.net, among many relevant international and domestic characterizations.-- ౪ Santa ౪ 99°  08:29, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

title
recently moved the article from "Christian tattooing in Bosnia and Herzegovina" to "Sicanje" saying Corrected Title - 'Sicanje' is the name in the Croatian page. I'd say a descriptive name that uses English would probably be preferable, though. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 10:58, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I fail to see how a descriptive name is preferable. Similar articles on cultural tattooing such as Tā moko, Peʻa, and Batok use titles based on the original language. Sideriver84 (talk) 01:50, 20 July 2022 (UTC). Based on your article WP:USEENGLISH, the use of 'sicanje' facilitates finding the subject in other reliable sources.
 * If you look at the article references right now, they're not uniform in calling it sicanje, there's a fair few using a number of titles or indeed a more descriptive title. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 17:20, 20 July 2022 (UTC)