Talk:Sicherheitsdienst

Proposed name change
How about renaming the article Security Service (Nazi Germany)? I think there is a general problem in many Nazi Germany-related articles, an obsession for maintaining the original German titles/names. I understand that the nomenclature might be considered important by some, but the end result is that in many articles almost one third of the text is not in English. For the average reader, it is rather annoying. 78.87.105.114 (talk) 05:23, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose; first there is no "obsession" taking place; this is an encyclopedia and we use and go by what the WP:RS historians and authors use in English. Einsatzgruppen, for example, is widely used in English-language literature/books. Already back in 2014, I made a redirect of Nazi Security Service to this article page; it only received six hits in the last month; therefore, it is not widely used, nor widely written in searches. This is an article where the name should not be changed; the German word is what is commonly and widely used. Kierzek (talk) 17:21, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
 * OPPOSE: Sicherheitsdienst is the commonly referred to name in most every English source academic texts. In a rare handful of cases I have seen authors refer to this group as the "security department of the SS", but actually most avoid "security service" since the abbreviations (SS) would be commonly confused with those of the parent group Schutzstaffel.  The abbreviation "SD", by the way, is even more commonly referenced than the name of the group itself, which is another reason to leave this alone. -O.R.Comms 17:09, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

Question
Hi Fellow Wikipedians. I see it says: The "Ic" abbreviation in German military staff structures designated "military intelligence" I thought Ic was operations?, i.e. operations for intelligence.
 * What I can tell you is that "Ic" was the original name for the SD and it was modeled after the counter-espionage department of the German Army. With that said, I did not add the footnote. Kierzek (talk) 21:34, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

Pay scale
Herr Obenritter is removing the pay scale for SD with the argument; ''Remove irrelevant information that uses a Nazi publication for its source. This borders on glorification as only fan boys care about a criminal organization's pay and rank structures.''

I believe its relevant information taken from a historical source, even if the source is an organization declared criminal in the Nuremberg process. Creuzbourg (talk) 15:59, 3 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose - the entry of peripheral information regarding the Sicherheitsdienst pay scale using a Nazi publication borders on offensive and does not serve Wikipedia in any positive way.--Obenritter (talk) 16:11, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Not encyclopedic; too much detail. Rank structure would be different.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 18:10, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose - of trivial interest and should not be included; agree with the reasons, as stated above. Just adding walls of text or an excessive amount of intricate detail does not lead to a better article; see WP:NOTEVERYTHING. "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information." Kierzek (talk) 12:45, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Support I find the 'oppose' reasoning not in line with Wikipedia policy. The argument Obenritter uses is WP:IDL - "offensive" is specifically given as not a reason to delete something at WP:ATA. WP:UNENCYCLOPEDIC is also given as not a reason in itself to delete something, we need to know the specific reasons for deletion. Also bear in mind this type of discussion is not a 'vote' (see WP:JUSTAVOTE and WP:PERNOM, it is an attempt to reach consensus, so please make recommendations on the course of action to be taken, sustained by arguments. My suggestion is the rank structure given appears to just be the rank structure of the SS in general, so edit to link to that and add a sentence or two on any differences between SD and normal SS ranks. Also, Creuzbourg you should make this discussion a WP:RFC to get wider input Shimbo (talk) 17:00, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose: excessive detail that does not improve the article. --K.e.coffman (talk) 01:22, 5 May 2020 (UTC)