Talk:Sichuan pepper/Archive 1

hydroxy-alpha-sanshool
This chemical is attempting to link to the Wiki article of the same name, but it does not exist. However, this chemical is described and pictured later in the article. Consider removing the details of the chemical and creating a new article focused on hydroxy-alpha-sanshool. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.35.225.228 (talk) 15:46, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

More than one species?
There appears to be more than one species involved here. I left that part alone pending more research. WormRunner 06:44, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * Bozhou Jingdao Medicine gives Zanthoxylum schinifolium Sieb [ old?] & Zucc. for 山花椒. Wikipeditor 01:02, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

The several different Latin binomials would indicate different species. That is how scientific nomenclature works: the first word is the genus, the second the species name within that genus. For example the sentence "Over the years Chinese farmers have cultivated multiple strains of these two varieties." should read "Over the years Chinese farmers have cultivated multiple varieties of these two species." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hugowolf (talk • contribs) 16:34, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Faa jiu
This plant is often said to be called faa jiu. What is this? Is seems to be a pronunciation of &#33457;&#26898;, but in what language/dialect? I've looked it up in Cantonese, and &#33457;&#26898; is apparently pronounced faa1ziu1 in that language. Close, but not quite. Is the z/j different simply a matter of different transcription systems in use? Or is faa jiu perhaps in Sìchu&#257;n dialect? I know they often say f where Standard Mandarin has f. For now, I have just put "in some dialects". Chameleon 12:55, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

About Faa jiu
Well, I am familiar with the dialects you mentioned(Cantonese, Sichuan dialet and sure, mandarin). I belive your spelling faa jiu is translated from Cantonese. In Chinese viewpoint, Sichuan dialect is a type of 'northern dialect', that is, a type of mandarin. They never pronounce 花 like 'faa', they pronounce 'hua', it(using h instead of f) is a characteristic among all types of northern dialect. And to me, the pronunciation of Cantonese sounds like 'jiu' not 'ziu'. But who knows, as long as I know, spelling Cantonese in latin letters are not normalized in Guangdong. So j and z may be another example of tsinghua and qinghua(old version of 清华 and the normalized version).I don't know where you found the spelling. In Guangdong, we usually don't use latin letters to spell Cantonese. While in HongKong, they do. --Purpureleaf 16:58, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I have a recording of a Sichuan person reciting the story 庄子和蝴蝶, and she says "fudie" instead of "húdié". So, I thought that "f" for "h" might be common in that province. — Chameleon 15:50, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Don't know why the girl pronounce like this;).I have many Sichuan person as friends, classmates and colleagues , and my homeplace is near Sichuan. I belive Sichuan person in most case says hu. About f and h,I was not clear in last post. I mean one "feature" of Cantonese is that they sometimes say h as f, 花 发 or something else. This "feature" is laughed at by Chinese. And this feature doesn't exist among northern dialects. BTW 庄周梦蝶, It is interesting and beatiful. I used to read 庄子 in my Chinese class(privately). And my teacher was angry.


 * In Southern and South Western China it's common to merge f and h, and also l and n, eg fulan instead of Hunan. LDHan 13:51, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually Sichuanhua is considered a northern dialect (although I disagree in many respects) and it does in fact pronounce nearly all of it's h's as f's, although I must point out it is fairly rare in Chengdu to hear someone pronounce huajiao as faajiu. If you move farther out to the countryside especially toward Chongqing you are more likely to hear a pronunciation closer to faajiu. Still, I would agree in the assumption that this is a Guangdonghua pronunciation.--Nofate 19:02, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

faa1ziu1 is 花椒 under the Jyutping (粵拼) romanization scheme of Cantonese. Under Yale_Romanization, it would be fā jīu.

Japanese use of sansho
Is sansho (Sichuan Pepper) used in Japanese cuisine other than in shichimi togarashi? If so, how? Badagnani 04:18, 12 November 2006 (UTC)


 * According to the latest issue of Saveur (issue 100), which featured an article on the sansho in their 'Fare' section, it is often used to kick up noodle soups and the berries are often added whole to hot pots. ICXCNIKA 02:01, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Huajiao in five-spice
Huajiao is definitely used in five-spice, but as there different versions of five-spice, no doubt there are some people who don't include huajiao. The main ingredients of five-spice are ba1jiao3 (star anise), rou4gui4 (cassia) and hua1jiao1. LDHan 17:45, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

sichuan pepper is the seed of the tree the spice sansho comes from the leaves of the tree. So many parts of this page are incorrect.

Sanshool
describes one key component of it!-Stone 09:45, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

"It is generally added at the last moment."
This is not true.

It is very often added at the beginning, when the oil gets hot. The husks are scooped out after they have been toasted by the hot oil and have released their flavour, preventing them from being crunched by the diner.

It is also an important ingredient in Chonqing-style huo guo (hot pot) condiment, and, in this important regional dish, is added FIRST. HedgeFundBob 16:15, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It is great to have editors here who have deep knowledge of Chinese regional cooking styles. Did you live in Sichuan?  I'd say that the original editor may have added that they are added at the last moment from person experience of a particular dish where that is done (any idea which one that might be?), but if you know that other dishes add it first, you should add this to the article.  Badagnani 17:18, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

That would be original research Badagnani. Either claim should be cited with appropriate sources. P.S. Sarcasm only makes your point seem even less substantial. 24.160.242.185 (talk) 15:40, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Edit 2: The quote is true because the remark is about toasting the tiny seed pods of the fresh Sichuan pepper. This spice is aromatic and tantalising, and therefore added at the last moment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A458:7B03:1:74A2:83E8:C375:8407 (talk) 21:02, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

"Sichuan pepper is unrelated to black pepper and to chile peppers"
This is also not true. There is no such thing as a pair of unrelated organisms on the earth. --Nolandda 21:43, 7 June 2007 (UTC)


 * There's no need to be that pedantic. :-)  I think that "closely related" or "of the same family" was implied, and is generally understood by readers to mean as much.  14 June 2007


 * I've rewritten the sentence as "The hua jiao belongs to the rue or citrus family (linked to Ruteceae), and botanically not closely related to the black pepper or chili peppers" so this is now a non-issue.--Kiyoweap (talk) 19:18, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Zanthoxylum ailanthoides
Should Zanthoxylum ailanthoides also be discussed here? Badagnani 08:07, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Sichuan pepper vs sancho
The Japanese Wikipedia makes the (unreferenced) claim that sansho proper is Zanthoxylum piperitum ("Japanese pepper"), and huajiao is only Zanthoxylum bungeanum (Jp. 華北山椒 kahoku-zansho). Any comments? Jpatokal (talk) 06:26, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Jpatokal is right. I performed a google search on "hua jiao/ huajiao" on books in print it is identified as Z. bungeanum in practically all serious books, some relating to food plants, other on chemistry, other on its Chinese traditional medicine, and endorsed too by Chinese authors. However, some cooking references that turned up in the search lump the two spices into one species, and in fact that is what I recall reading in the past. Anyway, I have revised this article a wee in reference to what I read on these books online, but will defere to others more knowledgeable in Chinese and the botany or ethnocuisine of China. Since my native language is ja, I'll concentrate on initiating a separate article for the Japanese pepper or Sanshō (spice). --Kiyoweap (talk) 19:07, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Accuracy of the Names section
The current version sources some website based in Austria for its information, but I believe the information specious, since I don't think the information squares with some of the printed books I browsed online. Howsobeit, I'll leave that debate to others.

I think there is also a need here to distinguish how a scholar or serious student would refer to a plant from, what various purveyors would call it when trying to market it, since enterprising sellers have no compunctions about using whatever name earns them the most buck unless they are barred by some truth in labeling statutes.

And I want to point out is that the prickly ash (Zanthoxylum americanum) is endemic (native) to North America, and is being sold by some native medicine / folk remedy type outfits as "dried prickly ash", but this should not be represented as being "Szechuan pepper". As a sidenote, the giant swallowtail (Papilio cresphontes) uses the prickly ash as host plant, just as sansho is one of the plants that the caterpillar of the ordinary swallotail of Japan (Papilio xuthus) feeds on. --Kiyoweap (talk) 19:44, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Clean up this paragraph
"Sichuan pepper has a unique aroma and flavour that is not hot or pungent like black, white or chili peppers. Instead, it has slight lemony overtones and creates a tingly numbness in the mouth (caused by its 3% of hydroxy alpha sanshool) that sets the stage for hot spices. According to Harold McGeein On Food and Cooking, second edition, p429 they are not simply pungent"

What does "sets the stage" mean? This is ambiguous and should be rephrased. Is this claim made in "On Food and Cooking?" Also, that source should be cited in the conventional way. Shiggity (talk) 00:43, 7 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Also needs more cites. The Sichuan pepper I have bought locally (Chinatown, Victoria BC) tends to be less lemony than common black pepper and more coriander-like. D Anthony Patriarche (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 08:47, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Incorrect picture of oil
The labeling of the bottle of oil in the picture is of sesame seed oil, as is the Pinyin "máyóu" in the caption. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.33.28.217 (talk) 20:17, 4 May 2018 (UTC)