Talk:Sid Luckman/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

✅ -- VS talk 11:40, 20 August 2008 (UTC) ✅  Enigma  message 00:27, 19 August 2008 (UTC) was removed.  Enigma  message 00:27, 19 August 2008 (UTC) ✅  Enigma  message 00:27, 19 August 2008 (UTC) ✅-- VS talk 10:55, 20 August 2008 (UTC) ✅ in various parts.-- VS talk 11:05, 20 August 2008 (UTC) ✅-- VS talk 01:14, 19 August 2008 (UTC) ✅ Have added a reference which relates back to the featured article Chicago Bears seasons -- VS talk 01:25, 19 August 2008 (UTC) ✅ Several references now added - always happy to see more.-- VS talk 02:04, 19 August 2008 (UTC) ✅ Utan Vax (talk) 00:03, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Lead
 * The lead seems short per WP:LEAD.
 * Early years
 * "At Columbia, as a part of the football team, he completed 180 of 376 passes for 2,413 yards and 20 touchdowns (impressive numbers for that era) and finished third in the 1938 Heisman Trophy voting, behind only Davey O'Brien and Marshall Goldberg." Do you have a reference for this?
 * "impressive numbers for that era" POV. Needs referencing or removing.
 * Chicago Bears
 * "Hearing of Sid Luckman's exploits as a single-wing tailback at Columbia University," What's a single-wing tailback?
 * "At that time both at the college and pro levels, offenses were a drab scrum of running the ball with only occasional passes. In what was then the predominant single-wing formation, the quarterback was primarily a blocking back and rarely touched the ball. Most passing was done by the tailback, and then usually only on third down with long yardage to go. Halas and his coaches (primarily Clark Shaughnessy) invented a rather complex scheme building on the traditional T-formation, but needed the right quarterback to run it properly." Needs referencing.
 * "Upon starting with Halas, Luckman mastered an offense that revolutionized football, and became the basis of most modern professional offenses. Only Sammy Baugh of the Washington Redskins had the passing skills to match Luckman. Eventually, Luckman tutored college coaches across the Big Ten, Notre Dame and West Point in the intricacies of the passing game." Ditto.
 * "This win was the beginning of more than six years of Bear dominance of the NFL." How many more than six? Seven? Eight?
 * "In 1942, the Bears posted a perfect 11–0 record and outscored their opponents 376–84 (they lost the championship game to Baugh and Redskins)." The bit in brackets surely deserves more of a mention than putting it as an aside in brackets.
 * T-formation section is almost entirely unreferenced.
 * Service
 * "In 1943, the middle of World War II and as soon as that year's season had ended," I don't understand this after three re-reads. It needs re-writing.

✅  Enigma  message 00:27, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Numbers
 * MVP. Expand to full title.

✅ Utan Vax (talk) 00:13, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Career statistics.
 * I would suggest changing to a table with lines. I.e. use "class=wikitable" That way it would help aligment and ease of reading.

✅  Enigma  message 00:27, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Later years
 * At this moment I don't think you need the sub-section "death". It's too short a section. I would just have it as two pars.

✅ Utan Vax (talk) 00:07, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "He was pre-deceased by his wife Estelle (née Morgolin), in 1981 of cancer," Clumby wording. I would make Estelle the subject of the sentence, i.e. "His wife Estelle had died in 1981 of cancer." Also put her maiden name the first time you mention her.

✅ (mostly)  Enigma  message 00:27, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * General
 * Numerals and units needs a non-breaking space in between per WP:MOSNUM. E.g. 12 seasons.

A bit to do, but I'll put it on hold. Peanut4 (talk) 23:21, 18 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Did a good part of it, but will need help with a few other parts. I don't know where I could find sources for the formation stuff, and I'm not proficient with wikitables.  Enigma  message 23:38, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, I added most of the non-breaking spaces, I think. If I missed any, someone please fix the rest. Thanks,  Enigma  message 23:53, 18 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Golly I turn my back for a day. Okay - where did we get the original stuff for the T-Formation from?-- VS  talk 01:06, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Some of it was there before we started. It's going to be hard to source the assertions precisely, because, while it may be true, finding a verifiable source...  Enigma  message 02:16, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not too bad - I have most of it covered already. -- VS talk 02:48, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

We could probably stretch the sources a bit in order to expand the lead. I was thinking we could add in more of his achievements and generally pad it out to make it look more full. Utan Vax (talk) 11:43, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Second review
Lots of work well done. But a couple of minor points.


 * Lead
 * I've made one slight adjustment to make the prose clearer. I hope it still makes sense?


 * Draft
 * I still don't know what tailback means.


 * Images
 * I'm not particularly good with images. But just watch out that the image of the draft photo has the requisite licence to use.

Should be done once the minor point above is addressed. Peanut4 (talk) 19:25, 20 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Single-wing formation has a bit about the tailback. You can also see it in the image. The lead makes sense to me. What draft photo are you referring to?  Enigma  message 19:34, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry. The picture of the 1946 Bears team. I'm not entirely sure how the "Fair use" licensing works. Everything else is fine so I'll pass the article.


 * GA review (see here for criteria)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose): b (MoS):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (references): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * See note above
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * See note above
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:

Good work and everything meets the GA criteria. Well done. Good luck with future work on the article. Peanut4 (talk) 20:51, 20 August 2008 (UTC)