Talk:Sid Vicious/Archive 1

Why does "Sid Vicious" have to be directed to this maggot eating nazi junkie?
I think alot more people know who the professional wrestler is. I mean this guy isn't even a real celebrity, he's the male version of Courtney Love. A true waste of space if you ask me, we should delete this article and forget this travesty ever occured.


 * How old are you? Sid Vicious may have indeed been scum... however I'd argue that he is a far more recognizable figure than a professional wrestler, even one as popular as Sid Vicious.  Also, sign your posts....  all it takes is four tildes (~). 64.80.201.194 (talk) 17:55, 30 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Sid Vicious was wearing T shirts with nazi emblems as a new fashion item created by Vivienne Westwood who was the wife of MacLauren - the Sex Pistols manager. [She was knighted (2006) by the Queen even though she had supported punk rockers and helped start punk bands as the Sex Pistols.

So this fashion was using intentionally wild symbols as a nazi emblem to gain attention. The same as the band Sex Pistols did.]

Also at the time in mid to late 1970's, all the Sex Pistols did was say f**k once and Sh*t 3-4 times and were banned e.g. in Sweden, and sing a few songs about anarchy, entirely spoofing to build up their name as a band. The sex pistols antics today seem completely mild and harmless.

[about the same time the Rolling Stones were arrested in Texas for using onstage a gigantic (it was ? 50 feet long) condom and during their songs, pretending to masturbate it. Antics making the Sex Pistols seem antics seem pretty mild.]

/s/ willy g man

I think you're going to have a very hard time arguing that a former professional wrestler in more culturally relevant than the man he stole his name from. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jakeosh (talk • contribs) 00:58, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

single/album
I've added the cover for these, it looks much better now, if anyone has a problem can you please change it if it needs to be done, but please do not delete the covers.

Sid solo I did it my way
Sid Solo My Way

I Did it My Way by Sid Vicious solo - 1st spoofing Frank Sinatra then changing to punk rendition, you see his brilliance as he is spoofing the entire song and with better singing that Rotten here, ? 6-9 months before death in mid 1978 in Paris]

/s/ willy g man, gint punka —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.195.233.217 (talk) 06:20, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

And it's such a great song too! The video is amazing. I also like the video he did for "Something Else"

Sid Vicious Something Else Parkthecar (talk) 21:48, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Pop Culture References
DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY FURTHER EVIDENCE SUGGESTING SID VICIOUS WAS JEWISH??

Apparently not. Someone just posted it here one fine day with no citation and no sources at all. I am not saying that it's not possible, there just seems to be no evidence of it. I'm quite sure in the near 30 years since his death, it would have been discovered. It wreaks of someone desperately trying to start a rumor.

I forced myself to watch the 'Holiday' video by Green Day, out of curiosity and I'm almost certain the bassist is NOT dressed as Sid Vicious at all. He is just dressed as his normal self and he has his usual dyed blonde hair. I suggest that this bit be removed from the pop culture references.
 * Yeah, I saw that too and was pretty puzzled by the claim. He doesn't seem to be dressed as Sid at all. I left it, though, seeing as I couldn't really tell, and I'm not a fan of Green Day so I don't know what the bassist usually looks like.

misc copyvios and remarks
In one section here Vicious is referred to as "Ritchie" and then immediately after as "Beverley". Ritchie was his birth name, but his legal name was later changed to Simon John Beverley. He signed contracts with the Sex Pistols as "John Beverley". Zorro6204 01:31, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

http://www.theiceberg.com/artist/25843/sid_vicious/

Hmm I started a copy edit before the copyright notice appeared- if I can rewrite sufficiently I'll replace the page content with this- for now I'll leave this on the talk page to work on it if that's OK quercus robur 15:40 Dec 15, 2002 (UTC)

Or put a stub in that's original material -- see if there are other wikipedians up for a game of stub tennis :-) (not me though, before my time ;-) -- Tarquin 17:10 Dec 15, 2002 (UTC)

Excellent short history of Sid Vicious.

i dunno i dont trust wiki sites but i do like this. i reckon he did kill her. i would have killed her if i were sid. he was and will ever be the king of punk! forget elvis !

the link for that apparent copyright violation is down. also, i believe steve jones played on all but 1 bass track, glen matlock played on the other. does anyone know if the book mentioned says that? Brinkost 02:15, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

do u think he actually killed her??


 * As the article says, he made what amounted to an admission of guilt. It's extremely likely that he done it, the "dirty dog" (his words for himself after she was murdered). Moreover, his death was almost certainly a suicide, either by negligence or whatever. Wyss 15:27, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

I think it'd be good to have a better photo at the top of the page than his mugshot. Not something that's like a posed Vicious shot but at least another picture. The mugshot would service better at the bottom.


 * If it was anyone else than Sid I'd say yeah, but the mug shot so fits his image and legacy. That said, if a more helpful PD or fair use pic comes along... Wyss 15:27, 7 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Well that's too bad, because I just added a unposed color photo of him actually playing his instrument. I never cared much for the Sid Vicious "legacy", I always wanted to know what he was really like.


 * You're welcome to edit the article, that's what WP's all about. Wyss 16:01, 7 September 2005 (UTC)


 * But images must be PD or fair use. The one you inserted appears to have been taken directly from http://www.nndb.com/people/671/000031578/sid-vicious-sm.jpg

So I've reverted it back. Wyss 16:12, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Sid Vicious was Christian, so was Nancy ~Tabi~


 * Which is a real shame because it was a fantastic picture. I'd like to know what fair use means and why it even matters if no one's even making money from putting stuff on this website.  Did the site that picture came from even own the picture in the first place?

Problematic line?
"On the morning of October 12, 1978 Vicious awoke from a drug-induced stupour to find Spungen dead in their apartment at the Hotel Chelsea, Room 100 in New York." Is this certain or is this just what he claimed? As far as I know this can't be confirmed, and it is possible that Sid consciously killed her. Am I wrong? -R. fiend 19:25, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * It's the 'generally accepted' version of events. Apparently Vicious awoke to find Nancy dead with no recollection of what actualy happened during the night. Not unlikely considering his constantly zonked out state (although on another occasion he claimed he was the killer and did it 'because I'm a dirty dog' (Sid that is, not me!)). There is also a possibility that Nancy was actually killed by a third party, possibly a drug dealer visiting the flat, apparently people were coming and going from their flat on a pretty constant basis. We'll never know for sure, but I don't think the line is problematic here, it's the version that also appears in most of the books, eg, Englands Dreaming quercus robur 20:14, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Hmmmm. Well, what is "apparently" what happened, and "not unlikely", as well as "generally accepted", is not compeltely the same as fact, which remains how it is stated here. My main problem is that if that isn't true, certainly Sid would have a strong motive for lying, and we're only going by his word. I would still perfer it were phrased as his version of the events, noting that nothing confirms or contradicts it. -R. fiend 22:19, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

- Presumably alot of the below are bootleg releases- maybe these could be sorted into 'official' and bootleg releases? quercus robur 13:30, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * No probelm, rephrase away my fiend as long as it doesn't get convoluted into one of those 'some say' but 'many think' tongue twisters that are the bane of this 'pedia! quercus robur 00:55, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Aren't they all basically bootleg releases? I didn't see one that was released before his death anyway. -R. fiend 15:07, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Discography
SID VICIOUS


 * My Way/Something Else/C&#8217;mon Everybody (1979, 12&#8221;, Barclay, Barclay 740 509)
 * Sid Sings (1979, LP, Virgin, V2144)
 * Live (1980, LP, Creative Industry Inc., JSR 21)
 * Vicious Burger (1980, LP, UD-6535, VD 6336)
 * Love Kills N.Y.C. (1985, LP, Konexion, KOMA 788020)
 * The Sid Vicious Experience &#8211; Jack Boots and Dirty Looks (1986, LP, Antler 37)
 * The Idols With Sid Vicious (1993?, CD, Last Call Records, LC22289)
 * Never Mind the Reunion Here&#8217;s Sid Vicious (1997, CD)
 * Sid Dead Live (1997, CD, Anagram, PUNK 86)
 * Sid Vicious Sings (1997, CD)
 * Vicious & Friends (1998, CD, Dressed To Kill Records, Dress 602)
 * Better (to provoke a reaction than to react to a provocation) (1999, CD, Almafame, YEAAH6)
 * Probably His Last Ever Interview (2000, CD, OZIT, OZITCD62)
 * Better (2001, CD)
 * Vive Le Rock (2003, 2CD)
 * Too Fast To Live... (2004, CD)
 * Naked & Ashamed (7&#8221;, Wonderful Records, WO-73)
 * Sid Live At Max&#8217;s Kansas City (LP, JSR 21)
 * Sid Vicious (LP, Innocent Records, JSR 21)
 * Sid Vicious McDonald Bros. Box (3CD, Sound Solutions, 003)

SID VICIOUS & FRIENDS


 * (Don&#8217;t You Gimme) No Lip/(I&#8217;m Not Your) Steppin&#8217; Stone (1989, 7&#8221;, SCRATCH 7)
 * Sid Vicious & Friends (1998, CD, Cleopatra, #251, ASIN: B0000061AS)

SID VICIOUS/EDDIE COCHRAN


 * Sid Vicious v&#8217;s Eddie Cochran &#8211; The Battle Of The Rockers (LP, Jock, LP 6)

SID VICIOUS/ELVIS PRESLEY


 * Cult Heroes (1993, CD)

VICIOUS WHITE KIDS


 * The Vicious White Kids (1987, LP, Ritchie 1)
 * Vicious White Kids (2001, CD, Sanctuary, CMRCD372)

THE FLOWERS OF ROMANCE


 * Sue Catwoman (2004, CD, The Flowers Of Romance)
 * Note: this is a different "Flowers of Romance" from the original band, see below... -- Gyrofrog (talk) 19:55, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Re: Flowers of Romance
A musician named Tony Blackplait has formed a band called "The Flowers of Romance." I've seen nothing that definitively indicates that the new band or Blackplait had anything to do with the original The Flowers of Romance (band). But someone is making claims to this effect, in this article and others. Tony Blackplait may or may not have made the acquaintance of Sid Vicious, so I've left the reference to him in the article. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 19:55, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

CULT OF THE DEAD COW
There is a link to this side, where Sid Vicious is descriped at one af the founders of CULT OF THE DEAD COW.


 * Why did you took the discography off? This is important.--80.235.54.92 19:55, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

It's all integrated now. Wyss 20:22, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Primitive anarchist?
Where did the idea that Sid was a 'primitive individualist anarchist' come from? I doubt he ever read Max Stirner or John Zerzan, he was just a kid who wanted to be a rock and roll star and got sucked into the myth of his own lifestyle. Despite using the 'A' in a circle symbol for shock value I don't suppose he ever had an articulate political thought in his existance, hence reverted addition to text. quercus robur 19:21, 9 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Sid was none-too-bright, and spent most of his time in an altered state of mind. It's the opinion of most that he knew next to nothing about anarchy as a political concept. Furthermore, I've never heard of him saying anything promoting anarchy. The closest is him wearing the Anarchy logo, but he wore a Nazi swastika as well and the two aren't exactly compatible. SwitChar6:54, 22 January 2006


 * He was very bright before the drugs. Although I've never heard he was a "Primitive Anarchist"; I've also never heard that he was "none-too-bright".  He was an amazing artist and was amazing with Surrealist like symbolism.  He never wore the Anarchy logo either.  Speaking of Sids Wardrobe; the Swastika Shirt was a Vivienne Westwood design that could be bought on Tees, Muslins, Bumflaps, and Bondage Gear, the origin is more than likely that it was simply given to him by McLaren or Westwood (who was very fond of him).  There is no Nazi conspiracy behind it.


 * I've also heard that Sid was actually quite intelegent and articulate before the drugs got to him, but that doesn't make him a primitivist anarchist (was the concept even around then???) or indeed a nazi, I don't think he was either, just a kid who got destroyed by his own fame and his own mythology quercus robur 18:17, 31 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Lol, speaking of "intelegence". You listen to sex pistols, don't you? Are you a "primivist anarchististist"? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.122.45.7 (talk) 22:59, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

Interview Question
In the article there's a quote about an interview where Sid Vicious is quoted to have said, he wants to be under the ground. Does anybody know anything more about that interview? I'd be very interested. I only can find copies of that part of interview acutally as being copied from wikipedia, but nothing else. Informations would be very nice. Thanks!
 * From memory, this interview follows very closely to one that was aired by the BBC, for the "Nationwide" news magazine program. The interviewer was (again from memory) Sue Lawley, one of the major presenters. As I recall, the question preceeding the ones quoted were something like, "Why do you do the things that you do?" to which Sid answered "Dunno. I just only wanted to have some fun." During the aforementioned long pause Mr Vicious gave Sue Lawley such a look of withering contempt that only a complete tv industry airhead would not have noticed it. Ms Lawley appeared not to have noticed it.  ps. I didn't much care for Sid, but he was pretty much a victim by the end.LessHeard vanU 21:38, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Death
Hmmm..... I am thinking that perhaps he murdered Nancy under the influence of drugs or alcohol or something, and then maybe passed out. That might explain why he awoke to find her dead with no recollection of what happened.


 * Well, John Lydon thinks Sid didn't kill Nancy and i guess so do many other fans. I don't know, but i tend to agree with John Lydon actually. We'll never really know for sure. termi


 * See also remark at bottom paragraph wherre supposedly one of the drug dealers visiting their room

at Chelsea Hotel the nite Spungen died is supposed to have confessed to killing Spungen.

also the type of synthetic morphone mentioned as found in blood and as sold to them that nite is 3x more powerful than heroine, meaning the 40 pills sold them that nite, if even couple taken would have knocked them completely out or goofy...

Sid's Death
It should be noted that the autopsy report said the heroin that killed Sid Vicious was 80% pure and that is 15x more powerful than normal street heroine which is 5%.

Such a "hot" dose or shootup is / or can be used to intentionally murder someone.

If you discount his death was NOT intended by his own mom who gave him this heroine, then some one else as the dope dealer may have intended to kill him.

Or perhaps his own mom thought to euthanize him and prevent his serving a longer sentence due to the 2nd degree murder charge v. him.

All pitiful esp as you see his quote at ?IMDB list of quotes that he did not want to be a junkie and live his life as a junkie.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0895965/bio

/s willy the g man - gint punk doode

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.195.233.217 (talk) 05:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

"Slender and Likable"?
Just a nitpick, but as a direct quote from the article: Described by peers as "slender and likable",... Does that mean that someone literally said, "oh yes, he was very slender and likable"? Or is it two different adjectives used at two different times to describe him? If it is, it would need to be Described by peers as "slender" and "likable". Or maybe I'm just reading it wrong entirely... it just seems funny that someone's peer would describe them as "slender and likable"... Skin Crawl 06:13, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Sid Vicious was a Neo-Nazi?
Look at the picture..


 * He wore the swastika shirt to offend people, not out of any neo-nazi belief.


 * I don't think that the comment directly above is sufficient to quell the initial inquiry. The rationale that the  swastika was worn "to offend people" is simplistic and wrong.  One must think about who, really, was most offended by such a display.  The answer is obvious.  Why did Sid Vicious wear a symbol so offensive to Jews in particular, and so soon after the Holocaust?  If his intent was to offend people in general, he was clearly too ignorant to realize the specific impact of the Nazi emblem.  If he was rational enough to realize the disproportionate offense caused by the display, I think it's safe to say that he was a racist.  The choice, then, is between sheer stupidity and intentional racism. 128.103.14.55 01:34, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Sid Vicious was never known for his great level of insight. The Swastika was a generally used symbol by punks, at a time when punk fashion was highly focussed on being as generally shocking as possible. Vicious was known for his array of clothing considered offensive, a good example being the 'two cowboys' t-shirt. He was just being a jackass, rather than a racist/antisemite.

Controversy/Criticism
Should there be some kind of section in regards to the controversy surrounding Sid and his public persona? Obviously the British media had a field day with Sid, and 'respectable types' probably didn't like him as much either, but then there is another viewpoint from within the punk and underground music community that Sid was rather bad for punk in general, with some even saying that Sid Vicious' meteoric rise to fame was partially the cause for punk's downfall, with many punks after the fact starting to follow his behavior and dress quite literally and thus losing the important element of punk that is originality, creativity and diversity in style. The best example of this on the top of my mind would be from Ian Mackaye (Minor Threat, Fugazi, Evens, etc.) who stated that Sid was a 'nihilistic junkie' and that he and his friends wanted nothing to do with that scene. Just a though, would like to hear some opinions on the matter...

Rumours
This article contains an undue number of unconfirmed rumours, to the point where there are internal contradictions (e.g. the cause of death is listed first as a heart attack and then as fluid on the lungs).

There are obviously a lot of issues here that NOBODY will ever know the truth about - but what's confirmed to be true and what's mere speculation or rumour should be made much clearer. --Ravenclaw (talk) 00:57, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

This article is rubbish
"Some time after leaving hospital he was charged with assault for defending himself when the brother of Patti Smith attacked him for commenting that the girl in the band was fat.

What band?

and "Sid was holding a cocktail glass which hit his attacker in a minor way. Todd Smith, upon his sister Patti's urging the following day, pressed charges on Sid in a failed effort to gain publicity and fame for himself." is just a statement without a source. This is not encyclopaedia material

Yes I agree. Why are there two stories of his death? This is an encyclopedia not an Oprah Winfrey chatroom

Deborah Spungen declines own request?
After Vicious' death, his mother phoned Deborah Spungen, Nancy's mother, to request that he be buried next to her, but Deborah Spungen declined. Vicious was then cremated, and his ashes were scattered on Nancy's grave. I don't know anyone here, so I'll leave it to someone else to fix, just wanted to point this out. --69.120.63.248 01:16, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

That is correct grammar describing Sid's mother phoning Spungen, who declined. If you wish, the second reference to Spungen could be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.218.56.240 (talk) 21:16, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

This shows wiki up for what it is. This guy is famous. This is, very clearly, rubbish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.118.219.168 (talk) 15:39, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Racism
was sid racist?
 * Yes, of course.

No he wasn't, in an interview with him he said he got on really well wwith black people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.21.61.25 (talk) 13:26, August 26, 2007 (UTC)


 * I can't begin to point out the fallacy in the above pronouncement. I think we need to parse the subject of Sid Vicious's possible racism a bit more. 140.247.251.193 (talk) 20:50, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Sid clearly was NOT rascist and you only need to compare the follwing remark from Obama to Sid's BETTER more concise remark to see that Sid was not only not rascist but spoke better than Obama... though he had never been to college much less to Harvard as Obama ...

<< "The choice in this election is not between regions or religions or genders. It's not about rich versus poor; young versus old; and it is not about black versus white. It's about the past versus the future." Barack Obama On Campaign trail 2008>>

<<“When there are no more categorizations; when there are no more "niggers", when there are no more "whites", when there's just "people", you know, when there's no more "punks",when there's no more "dirt", that is when everything is gonna be OK.” - Sid Vicious, c.1977 of Sex Pistols. (aka John Ritchie 1957-1979) source: IMDB list of quotes at this web site http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0895965/bio >>

/s willy the g man


 * The Only evidence people seem to be able to point to and say "Sid Vicious was racist," is his Swastika tee shirt, and German Eagle badges. But what people always fail to mention is all of this was given to him by Malcolm McLaren and Vivienne Westwood from the Seditionaries boutique, yet no one ever asks if they were racist.  The article itself puts to rest any rumors Sid Vicious was racist, it mentions his friendship with Don Lett's and Neon Leon, who were both black.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.63.200.57 (talk) 00:04, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Location Bank Street
Police report notes that Sid Vicious died at 65 Bank Street which is about 1 1/2 blocks west of well known Waverly Inn at 16 Bank Street, and 65 Bank was his girl friend's apartment location.

This location is about 10 blocks SW of Chelsea Hotel, where Nancy Spungeon died, located at 222 West 23rd Street, between 7th and 8th Avenues, NYC, NY. See Chelsea Hotel

This is also close by to Max's Kansas City, bar at 213 Park Avenue South, between 17th and 18th Streets, in New York City, where Sid had performed his last couple of 'gigs' in the Fall before his Feb death.

lil g man willy 76.230.156.155 (talk) 15:45, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Death Background
Sid came out of Riker Island prison and died that night, in bed with his girl friend, from Heroin overdose - his auotopsy revealing that the heroin was 80 % pure or a "hot dose" and his body not used to that having been straight while in Riker Island for approx 70 days. And medical experts explaining that his going to sleep meant he would die in his sleep, as each deeper level of sleep put him closer and closer to the point where he would stop breathing.

One report claimed his mom gave him that Hot Dose" of heroin on purpose, not wanting him to spend years in jail, expected from his pending murder charges of girlfriend Nancy Spungeon. But that does not hold water as he was widely expected to be acquitted, as no one thought he killed Nancy, including the detectives that investigated her death/ murder, esp as Sid was "out" from heavy drug use the evening of Nancy's death.

And also F. Lee Bailey, widely respected Defense Attorney, had been retained to defend Sid and so Sid was in good spirits with news that he would likely get off... and had moved on to his new girlfriend, after earlier missing Nancy, and was in a great mood after getting out of Rikers Island.

And other notes indicate that Sid sent out to buy this heroin his pals and so, there seem two possibilities, neither he or his pals were aware of the heroin's unusual high purity which can kill and so Sid's death was an accident, or it was sold to Sid's Pals/ Sid on purpose with that high purity intended to kill Sid... Understanding that, at this time, Sid and the Sex Pistols had caused an uproar in their singing and songs, esp with theme of "anarchy" which was taken seriously, though from my reading it was all used as hype to sell songs, as Sid and Rotten, other band memebers were harmless. But before the band broke up in its USA tour, it, the band was widely monitored and followed by FBI etc while in the USA.

g man willy 76.230.156.155 (talk) 15:45, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Sid's Dad
Sid's dad was a guard at Buckingham Palace and so in elite, UK army unit chosen for skill, loyalty and discipline. If you look at the guard in the scene in Patriot's Games (1992) where Ryan's daughter is attempting to spook the Buckingham palace guard (who remains unflappable), it seems to be Sid's dad (as a dead on very close ressemblance).

lil g man willy 76.230.156.155 (talk) 16:03, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Pyromaniac?
In the article there is an unattributed quote "After his death the school assembly held a minute silence for him and remembered his contributions to school life as being the reason why the school had the best trained fire drills in the country."

This must be a joke playing on the idea that while at school he would set fires and/or cause false fire alarms. This should be properly cited or removed. 70.74.160.191 17:34, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

can somebody post a different picture.....

Book
The title of John Lydon's book was Rotten not Vicious. Johnny Rotten = John Lydon. I changed it. Skin Crawl 21:17, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use criteria
The use of images not in compliance with our fair-use criteria or our policy on nonfree content is not appropriate, and the images have been removed. Please do not restore them. — M o e   ε  09:17, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Tidying
Vicious was deeply involved in the birth of British punk, but not punk per se. Made that change. Also tidied up grammar of paragraph about the hamster, as it wasn't clear whether Sid or the hamster was "slender and likeable".KD Tries Again 18:07, 21 June 2007 (UTC)KD

SID STUDIED ART AND PHOTOGRAPHY AT COLLEGE
Nobody has noted that sid studied art and photography at college. If YOU GO ON ONE OF THE WEBSITES AT THE BOTTOM IS HAS HIS PAINTINGS THERE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.21.61.25 (talk) 13:28, August 26, 2007 (UTC)

maybe there should be a distinction as didn't he attend ? Hackney Technical College which many say is just a high school ... s/ willy the g man

A few mistakes made that I am going to clear up
First of all Sids mother was not a junkie until they returned to england from spain, the easiest way to get homes in england was to be a junkie, so his mother faked being a junkie unforetunately living around these people drew her nearer until she was a junkie

It is widely known by many people that sid vicious did not kill Sprungen it was infact the dealer who sold him and sprungen heroin as the dealer admitted it in a bar he produced bloody dollar bills to prove it

I have taken all my knowledge from the si vicious biography and pretty vacant history of punk —Preceding unsigned comment added by Monkeyboy1707 (talk • contribs) 11:21, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:27, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Sid Vicious's Real Name
It wasn't Simon John Ritchie, it was John Simon Ritchie! That's why the Sex Pistols gave him a new nickname, because there would have been 2 John's in the band (John Lydon and John Ritchie) I don't know how to change items on Wikipedia, so I've left it as a post. Parkthecar (talk) 21:40, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Also, if you look at the wikipedia page for Johnny Rotten, it says "As a replacement, Lydon recommended his school friend John Simon Ritchie" 24.79.85.124 (talk) 00:59, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I've fixed it Parkthecar (talk) 22:43, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Ritchie or Vicious?
The article seems to jump back and forth using Ritchie at some points and Vicious at others. Which one should be used and when? 70.88.213.74 (talk) 21:13, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Sid's Poem "Nancy"
I think that the poem he wrote about Nancy in his suicide note should be included in this article. It's called "Nancy" "You were my little baby girl / I knew all your fears / such a joy to hold you in my arms / and kiss away your tears. / But now you're gone, there's only pain / and nothing I can do. / And I don't want to live this life, / If I can't live for you."   Parkthecar (talk) 21:59, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Connection
Sir Richard Branson made the money he grew into his being today's UK billionaire using money from working with Sex Pistol's to grow his Virgin Records store chain... beginning with the Sex Pistols when he only had 1 store; and, esp using money from Sid's 3 top 5 hits to do all that ....

/s/ roadie 109 76.192.1.62 (talk) 06:39, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Hot Dose
The 80 % pure and so "hot dose" of heroin that killed Sid was given to him by pals he sent out to buy it, but that raises the issue of intentionally killing, esp as his hits sold a lot more with his death. See note just above.

/s/ rodie 101 76.192.1.62 (talk) 06:47, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Name Vicious
Sids name Vicious is claimed to be from Rotten's hamster that bit Sid, but is actually a gay term - see Lou Reed's song Vicious [] ... the name causing Sid to be beaten up many times by those thinking his use of it was announcing he was gay when he was not.

/s/ roadie 210 76.192.1.62 (talk) 06:39, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

However, he was named "Vicious" to distinguish himself from johnny rotten- they were both named "John". Sid had a more vicious behaviour than rotten. Johnny rotten had bad teeth. The relation to homosexuality probably would have come after the name had already been given. Parkthecar (talk) 19:29, 23 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The article has it right, Lydon says it in the Filth and the Fury, "Sid got the name Vicious from my pet hamster, Sid, who bit him when he was trying to be sweet to it. And he always liked that, Sid is Vicious."  This happened before Sid, or even John for that matter, joined the Sex Pistols, because he was using the name Sid Vicious in art school.  There's a surrealist piece he did in chalk signed Sid Vicious with the signature making a little devil.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.63.200.57 (talk) 00:08, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't know any of the facts but this is also discussed in the Johnny Rotten biography and none of it seems to coincide. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.173.22.53 (talk) 00:55, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Biographies of Living Persons
This talk page had the BLP template at the top; I have removed it, as I feel it may be misleading. While that policy does apply to this article - the policy page states it applies to every article on Wikipedia - it is not such an immediate concern on an article like this one, where the principal subjects are dead. If anyone feels this article has particular BLP issues worth discussing, then please mention them below; otherwise, I don't see the need for the template. Terraxos (talk) 21:39, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Tambourine
Who said he played tambourine? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.21.60.203 (talk) 13:27, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I did. I did my research. ''"...We used to busk for money. [Rotten] at a violin, Sid with a tambourine..."  I found it here: 'The Filth and The Fury, St. Martin's Press, 2000, pg. 41''' Parkthecar (talk) 07:05, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

The "In Popular Culture" section
I have removed the four minor claims about Vicious under the heading "In Popular Culture" but recreate them below so I can explain why:

In Popular Culture
 * In the pilot episode of Mission Hill, while talking about his apartment, Andy French says that "there's a rumor that Sid Vicious threw up in the bathtub."


 * In Gilmore Girls, Lorelai and Rory were throwing out examples of love mentioned, "Like Sid and Nancy?"


 * The in anime series NANA, the character of Ren is based up in Sid.


 * The character Spike in Buffy the Vampire Slayer was based on Vicious.

Reasons for removal:
 * The mentions are trivial and their inclusion places undue weight on them in the context of the article. Sid Vicious unarguably had a major effect on popular culture, and this is detailed elsewhere in the article including in the extensive list of films about him. In comparison, two passing mentions on TV sitcoms and a claim that two characters in unrelated shows were loosely based on him are so minor as to be unnecessary for inclusion. A host of characters in a host of shows no doubt took inspiration from some aspect of coverage of Vicious or the Sex Pistols - to include them all would be a mammoth and pointless task, adding nothing to a reader's understanding of the topic.
 * The section is unsourced - while all four examples might be true, there are no references to support these claims.

Any alternative views on the importance of this section are of course welcome. Euryalus (talk) 07:08, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I hate these all-inclusive pop culture lists. They get out of hand too easily, and virtually all are trivial and ridiculous. Remove the whole section. Willerror (talk) 15:55, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Did Sid Vicious actually play Bass?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ9eR_Yq6ow —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.62.160.142 (talk) 08:35, 20 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The "Musicianship" section is probaby not true.  What SV eventually was able to do was lay down a rumble behind the band.  I think JR said that in the Fast and the Furious.  But in their live performances, a rumble was all that was needed.  Is that playing the bass?Geo8rge (talk) 03:18, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

No he couldn't play the bass at all in the beginning and later he took lessons and learn the basics, which of course doesn't make him a bassist and certainly not a musician. Miskin (talk) 13:02, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

English murderers?
Should he be added to the above category? He was charged with Nancy Spungen's murder, which he almost certainly committed. Whether he remembered stabbing her or not is immaterial. It is unlikely anyone else did it - of course his fans and bandmates are going to say he was innocent, as they are biased in his favour. Werdnawerdna (talk) 22:14, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I would like to see links, I doubt any of the people you list actually had first hand knowledge. Perhaps his mother and maybe a lawyer know the details.Geo8rge (talk) 03:21, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * English murders? Crime location and victim is USA.  English murderer maybe.Geo8rge (talk) 03:22, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Who are you to judge whether or not someone who didn't even get to go through trial "almost certainly committed" a certain crime? Labeling someone a "murderer" is not a small thing, it is huge. Miskin (talk) 12:58, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually the only member of the Pistols who have siad they believe he was innocent is John Lydon. Paul Cook, and Steve Jones, have both gone on record saying they believe he did it, and Glen Mattlock has never given a comment.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.63.200.57 (talk) 00:11, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * None of these people are trial lawyers, judges, or more to the point, jurors, and generally what people believe is irrelevant; for our purposes, we rely on reliable sources such as a conviction or confession- for an example of a case where a murderer was acquitted but later confessed, see the Tony Mancini section of Brighton trunk murders. We are not in the business here of substituting our own opinions for judgements handed down by more reliable sources. As far as Sid is concerned, showing that he did an act that caused Nancy's death is only part of the story- a trial could have established his mental state at the time, and the eventual verdict might well have been manslaughter due to diminished responsibility; but since none of that came to pass, we cannot make any assumptions. Rodhull  andemu  00:20, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Surname
The American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers lists Sid Vicious as John Simon Beverley, which suggests that his name was officially changed when his mother married Christopher Beverly. There must be a better source to confirm this but, in the meantime, I will reword the opening sentence of the article to make it clear that John Simon Ritchie was his birth name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bm213 (talk • contribs) 20:13, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

SID WAS MURDERED
ON sid vicious last 24 hours, it was revealed at the end of the program how he really died. A journalist broke the news to the tv crew, by telling them that he intervieed his mother before she died in 1996. She claimed that on purpose she told sid's girlfreind to get out of the room while she talked to sid. She then withour him knowing gav him a stong dose. She did this on purpose. He would die so he wouldnt have to suffer prison. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.219.49.40 (talk) 10:24, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * There's no basis in that, the journalist in question, Alan Parker, has made a very successful living off milking Sid's life and death. In actuallity he had no involvement in the punk scene, just a friendship with Anne Beverly which he exploits to make sensational claims about Sid.  Not even a month after Beverly's death he hawked a bunch of Sid Vicious/Sex Pistols memorabilia she had given him over the years including a ring Sid had given Nancy, and had the audacity to make a short documentary about it.  Also the Biography episode on the Sex Pistols was very inaccurate, they  identify well known footage taken by Don Lett's of Shane McGowan pogoing around the Roxy in a Union Jack blazer as Sid Vicious.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.63.200.57 (talk) 23:57, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

BASS SKILLS AND LEMMY'S (OF MÖTORHEAD) OPINION
In the article it says: 'Sid asked Lemmy, the bassist of Motörhead, to teach him how to play bass with the words, "I can't play bass," to which Lemmy replied "I know."'. - without any citation.

BUT! In this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y70T8ihebw at 4:58 Lemmy states the almost opposite; that Lemmy said: "You can't play bass" and Sid responded: "I know." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.58.24.89 (talk) 19:34, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Sid's Ashes
John Lydon dropped Sid's ashes in HEATHROW. Sid is blowing around the ventilation, collected in filters and lungs of travelers...

Why is this not included??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.113.49.126 (talk) 03:47, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There's absolutely no proof to that, in fact you didn't even get the Urban Legend right, the myth is Anne Beverly tripped and fell spilling the ashes all over the airport while trying to get to the plane. Why would John Lydon have Sid's ashes?  They weren't related, Lydon was in England working with PiL during the time period betweeen Nancy Spungeon's murder and Sid's death, they had fallen out and weren't even friends any more when this all happened.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.63.200.57 (talk) 00:15, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Fender Precision...American Classic?
In the late 1970's Fender (i surrender)didn't made Classic reissues, they were issued in the 1980's.Francodamned (talk) 04:50, 10 January 2010 (UT

Bail security
Anyone got a ref for this?  Tu rk ey ph an t 13:51, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Trutv Ref with $50k and referencing Riker's Island, US prison
 * BBC ref with $50k
 * ref to Riker's
 *  Sottolacqua  (talk) 14:00, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, seems we need a more authoritative source - there are different figures all over the web. Furthermore, there is evidence to suggest the bail security was later reduced but, although I'm not sure of historical exchange rates, £25,000 isn't much less than $50,000. We need the correct numbers in GBP for for values.  Tu rk ey ph an t 19:47, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
 * If bail was set for an American judicial system, why do the GBP values need to be displayed at all? An American judge would not set bail in a foreign currency.  Sottolacqua  (talk) 20:33, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Musicianship
Considering the discussion about his bass playing skills, one look at the Sex Pistols' Live At The Longhorn DVD and it's pretty clear Sid couldn't play to save his life. Lemmy and Jones were right. Viv Albertine's story about Sid's night with a Ramones LP is interesting but obviously didn't improve his skills a lot. I'm not sure if this anecdote should be in the article. Any thoughts? 109.178.117.14 (talk) 16:03, 27 December 2010 (UTC)


 * True, he was awful on that, but some of the audio recordings from the US tour do include (fairly) competent basslines, so I wonder if he was just off his face at the Longhorn. 81.157.202.39 (talk) 14:42, 31 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I think any musician will tell you that this story of "one night he stayed up to practise and -- lo and behold -- afterwards he could play" is rubbish. On the contrary, this indicates that he (almost) never practised and therefore corroborates the version that he was an inept bass player. Maikel (talk) 10:17, 30 May 2012 (UTC)


 * He sounds like he knows how to play his instrument on the surviving live recordings from 1977-1978, aside from being out of tune a lot. But Steve Jones was out of tune a lot too. FWIW, he sings like someone who actually had a little musical training. Timothy Horrigan (talk) 02:11, 12 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Using one of his final shows as a bass player while he was in the violent throws of heroin withdrawal doesn't seem like a very fair tactic for assessing his ability - just saying. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.201.61.202 (talk) 05:17, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Removed content from "Death" section
I've removed this: Previous to her suicide in 1996, John Beverley's (AKA Sid Vicious) Mother confessed to killing him. Whilst he lay asleep in his girlfriend's flat after taking an OD earlier, his mother took it upon herself to finish the job. Anne Beverley confessed she did this to ease his pain and prevent him from going back to jail. Vicious spent 55 days in Riker's NY.

Her detailed account states that she administered a fatal dose, enough to kill ten horses, of heroin by injection. She carefully and precisely injected her son and allowed him to drift off into a coma. She then left the room and waited for the discovery of his body, knowing full well, Sid Vicious would die. As described categorically in the program "The Final 24: Sid Vicious as it seems unduly speculative and unsupported by any authoritative research- in other words, although I haven't seen the film, it's a documentary maker's theory and is sourced to IMDB, which may not be reliable in rendering the detail. It is also described there as "pulp television", which does not satisfy our requirement for reliable sourcing. If anyone has a better source than this, please feel free to add it, but for the time being, I don't believe it meets our criteria. Rodhull  andemu  18:24, 18 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Usual Wikipedia consistency... death date in first line doesn't match that in right hand column. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.157.162.82 (talk) 14:59, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Cause of death?
Also, not sure if this is related, the introduction says Sid's mother supplied the heroin but killed him, but the Death section says it was given to him by a friend. Which one is right? Or did his mother get the friend to supply it to Sid? It's not clear. GavSalkeld (talk) 00:02, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

Sid's ashes
I'm sure there was a story that Sid's mum dropped the urn and spilled Sid's ashes all over Heathrow airport. Am I imagining it? Mr Larrington (talk) 14:50, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * This occurrence is alluded to in Johnny Rotten's autobiography. However, he didn't witness it in person.  Maikel (talk) 09:36, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Sid's first gig
The current entry is incorrect. Sid played with the Pistols for the first time on 21st March 1977 at Notre Dame Hall, Leicester Square, London (now Leicester Square Theatre). The Screen on the Green date is cited in nearly all accounts I've read, but is nonetheless incorrect.

To confirm, I so far have a reference from the offical Pistols site http://www.sexpistolsofficial.com/biography/gig-archive-1975-2008, a flyer here http://www.philjens.plus.com/pistols/pistols/posters_roxy_notre.htm, documentation here http://www.herestheartwork.co.uk/viewAlbum.php?id=1639, plus one single photograph of Sid playing on the stage at the venue. The Pistols played Notre Dame twice from what I gather: November 1976 with Matlock, and March 1977 with Vicious. The oft-quoted March 1976 date is erroneous.

I don't want to mess up the existing entry with my poor editing, so will someone else do the honours? Stark69 (talk) 15:01, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Image
I feel that the image used in the Infobox at the top of the screen should be an actual photograph, not an artist's impression. Any thoughts?--- RusselNorthrop (Talk2Me--Contribs) 07:18, 11 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Natt the Hatt (talk) 05:05, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

His iconic 1978 NYPD mugshot isn't suitable for Commons, but I believe would be available under "fair use" for Wikipedia, per an email discussion I had with the State of NY FOI office last year (scroll down about 3/4 of the page). Weedwhacker128 (talk) 16:31, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

A picture of him onstage would be good wouldn't it?--Jacoblikesmetal (talk) 09:39, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Would this be a good image to use for his page? . Would need someone to upload it though as I don't know details aboout it.--Jacoblikesmetal (talk) 09:28, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't know how to put a new picture in but dang does it need to be changed like immediately. Why the heck would someone put that pic there? He needs a real photo! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Koxblox (talk • contribs) 22:28, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

I do not believe thats gary oldman,im pretty sure its actually sid71.47.143.44 (talk) 01:47, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Never Mind The Reunion, Here's Sid Vicious album
There was a live album released under this name that isn't mentioned, should we try and find some information on it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jacoblikesmetal (talk • contribs) 08:32, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Sid Vicious
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Sid Vicious's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "uncut": From Gary Oldman: Uncut magazine, issue No. 117, February 2007 From A Kiss in the Dreamhouse: Mulholland, Garry. A Kiss in the Dreamhouse, Uncut, November 2012, pp 16–21 From Sid and Nancy: Uncut magazine, issue #117, February 2007 

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 15:43, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

'Confession'

 * 'Before her death in 1996, his mother Anne confessed to journalist Alan Parker that she then purposely administered a fatal dose of heroin to Vicious. After broadcast of this TV documentary it later came out in interview that Parker was lied to by the production team behind the show in order to make his 'confession'.'

Second sentence doesn't appear to mean anything, and does not seem to relate to the first. Valetude (talk) 18:02, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Lacking Encyclopedic Tone
Several sentences are written in a mildly sensationalist tone, suggesting some non-neutral POV at work. In addition, some of this stuff seems to be rather anecdotal. Here are a few examples:

"Westwood, likely working with McLaren to encourage Sid's worst instincts sent him a tome to read, written by Charles Manson, to keep him occupied during his imprisonment."

"As 1977 came to a close, the Sex Pistols were arguably one of the most famous bands on the planet with vulgarity and obnoxiousness as well as Sid's hardcore punk personality as the absolute key to their ever growing stature."

"and she is said to have introduced Sid to heroin, even though Sid was already abusing multiple drugs that his mother Anne supplied him with before he had met Nancy."

"... the group fell apart, and Sid, along with Nancy in arms, was free to do as he pleased. In doing so, he embarked on a path to destruction, while recording ..."

" Furthermore, no one could forget the time when Sid carved the words "Gimme a Fix" on his own bare chest. "

"..Vicious was a reasonably competent bass player, as is evident in the footage of the gig, especially at the beginning during the soundcheck when.."

"he asked the interviewer if he was kidding (which meant an obvious no)"

This type of writing continues throughout the article. It looks more like something written by a fan than a recounting of documented events. The multitude of "citation needed" tags is clearly intertwined with this sort of interpretive writing. All this informal stuff really ought to be scrubbed.

Patrick of J (talk) 05:35, 1 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Please do, whatever your username is! Thanks! — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 08:04, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Bass player
I've twice reverted you now. As you're new here, I won't give you an official warning for the second removal. It's WP:BRD, not WP:BR(∞)D. We're now at the D part, discussion. You deleted cited material, the fact that the link is a WP:DEADLINK is immaterial. If you want to argue that Vicious wasn't a good Bass player, then find a reliable source that says so. The alternate opinion can then be added to the article, thus maintaining WP:NPOV. Mjroots (talk) 16:53, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

On a first name basis
Why is his mother always "Anne"? It sounds too familiar and un-encyclopedic. Or is there a rule I'm missing? 178.39.122.125 (talk) 13:21, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
 * It's not uncommon to see on Wikipedia when family members are being discussed and there's some chance (admittedly very small here) that using only surnames could lead to ambiguity. Weedwhacker128 (talk) 17:27, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Criminals from London category
I don't know whether Sid should be categorised in the Criminals from London category, because he was a punk rock musician, not a criminal who dedicated his life to committing crimes. It's true that he got arrested for throwing the glass at The Damned, but it ended up blinding a girl in one eye, drug possession and assault offences as well as allegedly murdering Nancy, but it was never proven if he did kill her or not, because a) he had no recollection of actually occurring and b) he died before his trial could take place, so the NYPD closed the books on the case.61.69.217.3 (talk) 02:53, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

This article does not mention Alan G. Parker lied to "Final 24" that Anne Beverly confessed to deliberately giving Sid Vicious the fatal does
The article on Alan G. Parker does indicate the that what was told to "Final 24" was a lie, but this reference was removed from this article. Can this be researched and corrected? Dkf12 (talk) 01:21, 17 September 2020 (UTC)