Talk:Siege of Gaza City/Archive 1

Why delete?
I mean the main article has a too long warning. This article could logistically be good. It could concentrate this phases of fighting and the happenings in Gaza City into this article, instead of doing it in the main Hamas Israeli war article furthuring it's too long problem. Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 06:48, 3 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Definitely is most likely to become an article in the future if removed now so I advise that we wait. RamHez (talk) 10:16, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 November 2023
Some of the new edits don't seem to relate to the siege of gaza itself, namely the bottom paragraph regarding a strike about the Rafah crossing. In addition, there is not enough RS to verify many of the claims made in the article. Just as a note, I am a new wikipedian, feel free to change this in any way to get this to the proper channels. 63.238.127.66 (talk) 16:58, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The bottom paragraph actually does relate to the siege as it was actually an airstrike at a hospital in Gaza. The mention of the Rafah crossing was because the target of the airstrike was heading towards the crossing, but the strike occurred in Gaza City. That would be why it was mentioned. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 17:13, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the prompt response. If that is so the case, is there a way we could then make it more clear and oblivious to this? Or, due to the lack of RS, remove it? There seems to be a lack of other sources talking about this, besides. Al Jazeera, is directly listed on the list of RS that Al Jazeera does tend to be biased in these topics regarding the Arab-Israel Conflict as they are owned 100% by the Govmnt of Qatar. Remember that wikipedia is not news and perhaps wait until we wait until verifiability from multiple RS so we can decide what verbage and such to use.63.238.127.66 (talk) 17:33, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. M.Bitton (talk) 19:13, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Yemen didn't enter the war
Algeria is the second Arab country that looks to enter the war against Israel, following Yemen's declaration of war on Israel two days prior." Remove this part please

.AP News had literally just released this article https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-war-yemen-houthis-363471853927

The Houthis did declared war,but they are not the internationally recognized government of Yemen. 14.231.9.223 (talk) 05:33, 4 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Not internationally recognised but they are the de facto government of Yemen. They control many major cities including the capital Sanaa The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 12:19, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Better infos
Can someone separate the civilian casualties and put it alone and put *unknown* in Hamas casualties because it kinda disturbs the claimed point of the war (to finish hamas)by the Israeli government and they are supposed to only kill hamas militants as they said Sajjjjr (talk) 19:39, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Number of destroyed israeli military vehicles
Can someone please edit this: "Hamas fighters have destroyed 24 Israeli military vehicles, including a tank, an armoured personnel carrier, and a bulldozer with anti-armour weapons, notably Al Yassin 105 shells in the past two days". The article treats it as a fact. It should be mentioned as claimed by Hamas or Al-Jazeera, it is not easy to understand from the referenced page if this sentence is a part of statement by Hamas or if it is a claim of Al-Jazeera. Kionen (talk) 20:10, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Requests should be made in "please change X to Y" format. Additionally, per WP:RSP, Al Jazeera is classified a reliable source for information. Source was verified to state that information and was not quoting Hamas for that information. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 20:31, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I still think that we can't rely solely on Al-Jazeera's reporting for such information as a number of destroyed vehicles. I suggest changing "Hamas fighters have destroyed 24 Israeli military vehicles, including a tank, an armoured personnel carrier, and a bulldozer with anti-armour weapons, notably Al Yassin 105 shells in the past two days." into "Hamas fighters have destroyed 24 Israeli military vehicles, including a tank, an armoured personnel carrier, and a bulldozer with anti-armour weapons, notably Al Yassin 105 shells in the past two days, according to Al-Jazeera." in siege section and also adding a reference to Al-Jazeera to "24 military vehicles destroyed" in casualties and losses section. If there are any other reliable sources that have said about the same number of destroyed vehicles then they should also be added. Kionen (talk) 22:06, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Since Al Jazeera is considered a reliable source, the article cannot indicate that what Al Jazeera publishes as facts are instead "claims." If we were to add "according to Al Jazeera," it should not be to indicate that they are unreliable. That said, I agree that verification from different sources is a good thing. Nythar  (💬-🍀) 06:54, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * What Al Jazeera "source" states objectively that 24 vehicles were destroyed and not Hamas claims 24 vehicles were destroyed? The source cited doesn't even mention 24 vehicles being destroyed period. Wordbearer88 (talk) 04:08, 6 November 2023 (UTC)


 * I mostly have a problem with Al-Jazeera's reporting being treated as fully factual, as the wikipedia rules state that no source can be always accurate. In the past we have already seen a pretty big example of Al-Jazeera's reporting being challenged in the context of the current conflict, with the Al-Ahli hospital explosion, with multiple other highly reliable sources claiming absolutely different things compared to Al-Jazeera, the wikipedia article about the event stating the opposite version of events to Al-Jazeera's as "consensus among independent analysts, while not a definitive conclusion, is that the explosion was caused by an errant rocket fired from within Gaza.", so in my opinion such claims as a number of destroyed military vehicles without any supporting reports and confirmation should at least have some remarks of them being reported and not being something completely peremptory. It is not that the videos of targeting of vehicles are not real or that some number is impossible, it is about the objectivness of the article in its usage of sources.

Kionen (talk) 10:45, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * There are many vids of hamas destroying the tanks so it can be trusted especially when idf didn’t deny it 197.204.26.76 (talk) 21:49, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Al qassam has been posting a few videos of them taking out tanks, bulldozers and other vehicles, so the claim that 24 vehicles were destroyed isn’t too far fetched The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 03:55, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * There is not 1 video of a confirmed vehicle kill. The Hamas videos always cutaway conveniently before you see any damage Wordbearer88 (talk) 04:09, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * 13-man givati brigade and salman habaka were wiped out. Sure not 100% of the tanks that were shot were destroyed, but certainly it’s not 0% either The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 09:54, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Number of residents remaining in the besieged area
According to U.S. estimates, between 350,000 to 400,000 residents are currently inside the besieged Gaza City. Perhaps this could be placed in the lede or the infobox. Ecrusized (talk) 17:58, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 November 2023
In the second paragraph under the 2 November subheading under the Siege section, it says "Israel acknowledged that that Hamas", with "that" written twice. One of the "that"s should be removed. GhoulzRulez (talk) 19:12, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 19:14, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Fix: Algerian Reaction
The Algerian parliament did not vote to authorize President Abdelmadjid Tebboune to militarily enter the war in support of Palestine—I believe there was a mistranslation, as the vote was primarily ceremonial. Also, none of the sources mentioning it are considered reliable, especially since no mainstream media's reporting on it. Note that this was also mentioned in the article Algeria–Israel relations and was subsequently removed. Please fix. - MateoFrayo (talk) 03:46, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Map
Legend is wrong if blue part means "whole city must evacuate" - who remains: also needed exact date as not edited as fast as events change 93.140.249.63 (talk) 09:03, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

local breaks
https://www.zman.co.il/live/437218/

Areas where there are local tactical pauses of several hours during which the IDF allows civilians to move south. https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/s1h2ut57a

The IDF announces the extension of the humanitarian ceasefires today in the northern Gaza Strip in favor of the passage of civilians to the south:

1. The central axis in Saladin opens today for 7 hours - from 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. 2. The IDF also opens the coastal road axis in Gaza to pass south - and calls on the residents of the area to move along the coastline as well. 3. The IDF announced a 4-hour ceasefire in the Jabaliya refugee camp, from 10:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m., in order for the local people to evacuate to the south.

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/s1h2ut57a

Israeli casualties update?
According to the times of Israel (an Israeli source), 44 IDF soldiers died fighting in Northern Gaza, and here it says 35.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-2-commando-brigade-troops-killed-fighting-in-gaza-bringing-ground-op-toll-to-44/ Durranistan (talk) 10:01, 14 November 2023 (UTC)


 * I would also like to note that the article says in the casualties and losses section as if Israel has itself said that they lost 24 military vehicles, but it was in fact written by Al-Jazeera.  Kionen (talk) 17:38, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Siege of Gaza City
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Siege of Gaza City's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "auto9": From Siege of Mariupol:  From 2023 Israel–Hamas war:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. Feel free to remove this comment after fixing the refs. AnomieBOT ⚡ 07:29, 15 November 2023 (UTC)