Talk:Siege of Trebizond (1461)

Fall of the last of the Successor States?
Is this not the fall of the last of the successor states of the Byzantine /Eastern Roman Empire?

IceDragon64 (talk) 21:53, 15 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Indeed that is the common view. One could of course count the Principality of Theodoro as a successor state, but for some reason (perhaps obscurity, or lack of imperial claims) it is usually not. Constantine  ✍  07:26, 16 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Then there is the question of when we should consider the Despotate of Epirus actually ended: was it 1318 when the last male descendant of its founder was assassinated? In 1337 when Andronikos III extinguished its claims? Or 1470 when the Ottomans formally annexed what was left of the state -- or what called itself the Despotate? FWIW, the list of "successor states" is usually limited to the three more substantial states that competed to recover Constantinople (namely, the Empires of Trebizond, Niceae, & the Despotate of Epirus), while the smaller transient realms of Leon Sgouros, & Manuel Maurozomes, as well as independent spots such as Antalya & Sampson under Sabas Asidenos are ignored. Theodoro for that reason is not usually included as one of the "successor states". -- llywrch (talk) 19:11, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Well, some modern historians, including Nicol, consider 1479 the end date of the Despotate of Epirus, when Leonardo III Tocco lost Vonitsa and what remained of the county palatine of Zakynthos. This would make it the last to fall, but in common perception (including what I was taught at school in Greece) what counts is the fall of the last major Greek capital at Trebizond, not the insignificant fortress of Vonitsa. Epirus was at best a rump state after 1449 when Arta fell. Constantine  ✍  09:25, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Ottoman Army
No way Ottomans could have fielded 140k men to siege Trebizond. Whatever source was used was definitely exaggerated (medieval sources were known for that) so I made an edit... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Starwarsbv (talk • contribs) 22:56, 14 June 2017 (UTC)