Talk:Siege of Tyre (332 BC)

Dates in battle page names
I moved the page back to the original name. See WikiProject Battles no need for date in name unless as a disambiguation.

If you wish the page name to include the year and it is not for disambiguation, please discuss it under Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Battles --Philip Baird Shearer 10:48, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

This article in my opinion should be totally rewritten. The letter by Alexander to Darius should be removed, and the article should actually describe the siege of Tyre and what Alexander did.

Agreed. This is one of the most famous and, shall i be frank, interesting sieges in history, and thus warrants much more attention, especially to the various specific events that occured during the siege. The current article has nearly a paragraph on the actual siege, and the rest is a misplaced Wikisource article. the letter deserves a citation and a link, no more.

Finding this article severly lacking, i have taken the liberty of pasting in passages from an essay I am doing on the subject. it is not yet referenced or written to Wikipedia specifications, so any cleaning would help. --Ian

Dream
Isn't there a legend of Alexander dreaming of a satyros dancing? The dream interpreter took it as "sa Tyros", "Yours is Tyros", and Alexander decided to turn the island into a peninsula.

PNAS article
There is a scholarly article in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (USA) whose findings may be interesting to incorporate into this article. The article was released online May 17, 2007 and is not currently publicly available, but PNAS articles become public 6 months after release. Perhaps it would be most appropriate to wait until the full text is available online (around mid-November, 2007) before incorporating it. I will put the URL and abstract here until then. --128.231.88.6 18:36, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

http://dx.doi.org/10.1073/pnas.0611325104

Holocene morphogenesis of Alexander the Great's isthmus at Tyre in Lebanon

Nick Marriner*, Christophe Morhange, and Samuel Meulé

Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique, Centre Européen de Recherche et d'Enseignement des Géosciences de l'Environnement, Unité Mixte de Recherche 6635, Université Aix-Marseille, Europôle de l'Arbois, BP 80, 13545 Aix-en-Provence Cedex 04, France

Edited by Jeremy A. Sabloff, University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, Philadelphia, PA, and approved April 6, 2007 (received for review December 21, 2006)

In 332 B.C., Alexander the Great constructed an {approx}1,000-m-long causeway to seize the offshore island of Tyre. The logistics behind this engineering feat have long troubled archaeologists. Using the Holocene sedimentary record, we demonstrate that Alexander's engineers cleverly exploited a shallow proto-tombolo, or sublittoral sand spit, to breach the offshore city's defensive impregnability. We elucidate a three-phase geomorphological model for the spit's evolution. Settled since the Bronze Age, the area's geological record manifests a long history of natural and anthropogenic forcings. (i) Leeward of the island breakwater, the maximum flooding surface (e.g., drowning of the subaerial land surfaces by seawater) is dated {approx}8000 B.P. Fine-grained sediments and brackish and marine-lagoonal faunas translate shallow, low-energy water bodies at this time. Shelter was afforded by Tyre's elongated sandstone reefs, which acted as a 6-km natural breakwater. (ii) By 6000 B.P., sea-level rise had reduced the dimensions of the island from 6 to 4 km. The leeward wave shadow generated by this island, allied with high sediment supply after 3000 B.P., culminated in a natural wave-dominated proto-tombolo within 1–2 m of mean sea level by the time of Alexander the Great (4th century B.C.). (iii) After 332 B.C., construction of Alexander's causeway entrained a complete anthropogenic metamorphosis of the Tyrian coastal system.

Requested move
Siege of Tyre → Siege of Tyre (332 BC) --(Discuss)-- The main and only reason why this should be moved is because of how many sieges occured here. Tyre has been besieged almost 10 times in its history, and to only call it Tyre without the date is unproffessional, and for the sake of the greater picture, future articles about other sieges at Tyre will not worry about this only article about Tyre with no date. So it will not be confusing, and whoever is researching Alexanders battles, and only knows the date, he or she will not have trouble finding this article, overall it'll be easier on all of us.Ariobarza (talk) 09:57, 3 March 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

Survey
Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *Support or *Oppose, then sign your comment with Ariobarza (talk) 09:57, 3 March 2008 (UTC). Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.


 * Oppose as primary usage; of the 444 Google Scholar articles on a siege of Tyre, only 56 fail to mention Alexander. It is also indicative that articles haven't been written on the other sieges; then again, I'm not convinced we need this one. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:08, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

 * I made the move, partly because a histmerge was needed. Move it back if you want to. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:39, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Battering Rams?

"the only known case of battering rams being used on ships".

This phrase actually made me chuckle, Since entire classes of ancient Warships (the Trireme, just to name a popular example) are specifically DESIGNED to ram enemy vessels, with a battering ram being an integral part of the ship, which if the quoted segment was true, would make me doubt the sanity of an entire ancient Greek navy. I will be deleting that nonsense immediately.


 * My understanding is that the siege involved a freely operating battering ram being used from the deck of the ship against a wall, not a battering ram on the prow of a Trireme which is designed for ramming other ships. While that phrasing is problematic, I think I know what they are referring to.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:30A:C7DF:E250:9DB:521A:2603:B933 (talk) 17:44, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

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I notice that the references start with #1 but the first reference in the article is actually #13. The first 9 references, which do not appear in the article, are clearly meant to establish that Alexander of Macedonia was Greek, a subject of great political concern to today's Greeks since the creation of the Slavic republic of (North) Macedonia that came to be after the breakup of Yugoslavia. This seems to me to be politically motivated and the citations, clearly not relevant to the article, should be removed.

IcyOh (talk) 19:57, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Missing box
Why does this page not have a "strength" sextion on the infobox. MUHTADTURK (talk) 16:12, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Section* MUHTADTURK (talk) 16:12, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Women and children numbers
Some of the numbers are unreferenced, and seem incorrect, but the source material is probably sparse. The article states that women and children were evacuated to Carthage, but contradicts that by stating that they were the majority of the slaves. The total numbers also don't quite add up; 40 k before the siege less 8k killed in the sack, leaving 32k, but the article quotes 30k, that were saved because they were in temples. Out of interest, Is there any reference that 30 k could fit into the temples?? Wakelamp d&#91;@-@&#93;b (talk) 09:56, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: The Phoenicians - Cunning Seafarers
— Assignment last updated by Jking1304 (talk) 18:20, 15 May 2024 (UTC)