Talk:Sierra Madre Occidental

Question about Tarahumara language group
Isn't Tarahumara, which in its own tongue IIRC is called Purepechua, not of the same family as Uto-Aztecan languages? Or am I confusing the Tarahumara with someone else? (if the Tarahumara are those runners in the Copper Canyon area, then I'm wrong). But anyway, Purepechua, whatever its name in Spanish is (and it does have a different name) I'm pretty sure isn't Uto-Aztecan; it's distinct and their culture remained/remains distinct. Michoacan area, including Patzcuaro but the ancient capital is a place called Tzintzuntzan, on the main highway (such as it is) into Patzcuaro; ancient pyramid-altars (no blood, just fire with these folks) and a busy trade in carve wooden furniture (nice stuff, cheap, too). Purepechua is known for being tonal and in that aspect resembling (but not being related to) Sino-Thai languages; IIRC it's the only Amerind language north of Panama that's tonal like that. I know it sounds like I'm answering my own question but my point in fielding this here is to see if anyone else has heard of this, or might even have the specifics on it.Skookum1 05:58, 13 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Could you be thinking of the isolate language Purepecha (also called Tarascan)? Tom Radulovich 06:09, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, that's the one thank you; it's just that I thought that language, whatever it was, should be added to the list of languages of the Sierra Madre Occidental, since they're not Uto-Aztecan? . . . . I guess once you've read this and either put the Purepecha (sp.) into the list, or let me know I should/can, you can delete all of the above if you want.Skookum1 09:10, 13 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Purepecha is spoken in Michoacan, which is well south of the Sierra Madre Occidental. Tom Radulovich 16:22, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, what the hell is the range between Patzcuaro and Playa Azul, then? I'd assumed that was the Sierra Madre Occidental. 'Cause it sure as hell is a mountain range (I've driven through it and along its Pacific flank), as is most of southern Michoacan.; same mountains than run between Morelos and Guerrero, or rather through Guerrero. What are they then?Skookum1 19:30, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Michoacan lies between the Trans-Mexican volcanic belt (Eje Volcanico Transversal) to the north and the Sierra Madre del Sur to the south. Tom Radulovich 03:43, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Sierra Madre do not extend into AZ
The citation given for the claim that the Sierra Madre Occidental extend into AZ discusses ecoregions, not mountains. The Chiricahua, Huachuca, and other major mountain ranges of southeastern AZ and in Mexico west of Agua Prieta are Basin and Range mountains; south of Agua Prieta the Sierra Madre form an unbroken range that runs as far south as Guanajuato. The Animas Mountains of extreme southwestern NM are sometimes referred to as Sierra Madre outliers, but a good citation would be needed to claim their inclusion. Bkalafut (talk) 10:41, 24 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Agree and removed. Vsmith (talk) 12:39, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

easy reference site: for coordinates of Sierra Madre Occidental: click the link to the site and source it! — Preceding unsigned comment added by MiniKing (talk • contribs) 14:28, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

An Ancient Culture in Mountainous Mexico
Ruben E. Reyes is Mexican. He was raised in Mexico City. But some of the indigenous Tarahumara people of northern Mexico had a word for him when he first traveled among them in 2002. The word was “gringo.”

“I was never called that before,” Mr. Reyes, 31, recalled recently.

Though his father’s family had come from an area about 50 miles away, Mr. Reyes was an outsider in the Copper Canyon, among the mountains of the Sierra Madre Occidental. He found the Tarahumara, who are known for their running prowess, living lives not wholly unlike their ancestors centuries ago, who fled to these elevations from the Spanish.

“They still had their own culture,” Mr. Reyes said. “It wasn’t Mexicanized.”

However, by the time he returned for several months in 2009 to photograph, Mr. Reyes saw signs of a cultural shift among the Tarahumara (also known as the Rarámuri). Men who had previously worn loincloths now wore jeans. Children, most of them now in school, were speaking Spanish, while their grandparents spoke only Tarahumara. People were leaving the canyon to seek work in the cities. Yet, at the same time, Mr. Reyes found many traditional religious practices still being maintained, alongside Catholic observances.

His black-and-white, medium-format photographs have a timelessness of their own, as if they had been taken a century ago. But this wasn’t the result of some conscious aesthetic strategy. “This is just the way I photograph,” Mr. Reyes said.

He currently works as a freelance photographer in Cincinnati, where he lives with his wife, Jamie, and their newborn daughter. That’s a long way from Copper Canyon.

“It was like a dream being there — all magic and beauty,” Mr. Reyes said. “This was the land of my forefathers. I’ve been living outside of Mexico for 12 years. You don’t really appreciate what you have in your country until you leave it.”

http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/08/an-ancient-culture-in-mountainous-mexico/?ref=world —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.250.155.34 (talk) 19:56, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

An expanding edit
I would like to make an edit to expand the information in this article by breaking up the setting section into sections on the name, geography, geology, climate, and water then adding and citing the information that belongs in each. I will do this in the next couple of days, unless someone feels that there is a good reason not to. Al Climbs (talk) 22:29, 12 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm done for a while. Hopefully, people will find the new material useful. If someone wouldn't mind going through for cleaning things up and finding those last couple of citations that would be wonderful.Al Climbs (talk) 09:53, 17 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I forgot to say that the only sections that I really feel are at all complete are the geology and climate sections. If people want to do work on this article, I think that essentially every other section needs more work than those, especially the addition of more material.Al Climbs (talk) 09:55, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Geology suggestions
Some suggestions:
 * Geology paragraph 1: Is the basement composed of sediments or meta-sediments (metamorphic sediments)? The introduction uses "metamorphic rock". Maybe you have some information of the metamorphic grade or facies?


 * Geological history: It might be more consistent to write "metamorphic sediments" instead of "metamorphised formations". Also these sediments where probably later metamorphosed, deformed (gneiss and schist were created in the process) and intruded by granites.


 * Formation should only be used in its stratigraphic meaning in geology articles. I guess in English it would be better to otherwise say rock-formation for general purposes.


 * Geological history paragraph 2: tectonic action? maybe tectonic accretion?


 * Structures: Which fault system is active hear. Maybe it has a article and could be linked.


 * A map would be nice for people not familiar with the area.

Hope this helps. --Tobias1984 (talk) 08:11, 16 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Alright, I was able to get some more information on the basement and, of course, it turns out it wasn't as simple as I originally made it out to be. I got a lot more information on faults, but I cannot find the major fault system, there is one, and people reference it; they just don't give it a name. Anyone have any suggestions from here? --Al Climbs (talk) 23:03, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * There is a plate boundary running parallel to the Sierra Madre Occidental (http://www.tectonics.caltech.edu/images/maps/plates.pdf). Maybe the faulting in the SMO has something to do with the activity along the plate boundary. --Tobias1984 (talk) 06:56, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The Ferrari 2007 ref (to which I've added a link to the full text) has a lot of information about the tectonics, with maps and named fault zones. Have to go now, but I'll check back later to see how this might help. Mikenorton (talk) 07:15, 19 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I think that I addressed faulting, I haven't added anything about the grabens, some of which are named. I think that the use of formation is mostly proper, so the only issue out of there is no map. I think the section on soils is a little lacking, but the only sources I have right now are on mining/ores and on ignimbrites. So we could still use a map and more pictures with maybe a bit more on soils. Does anyone have any other suggestions from geology? --Al Climbs (talk) 04:23, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
 * As far as the geology goes I think this article is really excellent. A map and some pictures would be nice. As an alternative you could make a simple vector drawing of the different events in inkscape. Those could be either map or cross section. --Tobias1984 (talk) 08:07, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120415101003/http://botany.si.edu/projects/cpd/ma/mamexico.htm to http://botany.si.edu/projects/cpd/ma/mamexico.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100418064534/http://cuentame.inegi.gob.mx/monografias/informacion/dur/territorio/relieve.aspx?tema=me&e=10 to http://cuentame.inegi.gob.mx/monografias/informacion/dur/territorio/relieve.aspx?tema=me&e=10
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120228191927/http://www1.american.edu/ted/mexdefor.htm to http://www1.american.edu/ted/MEXDEFOR.HTM
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071012193905/http://www.goldmanprize.org/node/87 to http://www.goldmanprize.org/node/87

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Two geography sections
There are two sections called "Geography". NotYourFathersOldsmobile (talk) 08:45, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

B-Class Review
I think this article is just shy of B class but leaving it as B class seems reasonable as the failures are relatively minor.


 * The references and inline citations are well done although I like to see citations content put under the "reflist" template rather than inlined with the article text -- it's just easier to edit IMHO and makes it easy to copy/paste to related articles where appropriate.
 * The Etymology section however is lacking inline citations which would fail for GA.
 * There are a couple citations that might might be considered dubious as they point to commercial sites promoting products/services; for example current citation 7 "Mexico's Copper Canyon".
 * There's also a personal opinion expressed by current citation 10 "Back to my roots".
 * I also cannot verify current citation 14 "Relieve, Durango" as this is in Spanish.
 * Current citation 112 "The Black Robes of New Spain" is questionable as there is no URL and appears it's not from a book. It has a 1934 date so this might suggest it cannot be found online.

RedWolf (talk) 21:50, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
 * The lead section needs more content as it certainly would not pass GA and is marginal even for B class.


 * I have some explanations for some of this. The last four paragraphs of the Etymology section used to be part of the lead. This is why the lead is short and the Etymology section lacks citations. This could be fixed by putting the material back in the lead. I have tried to fix some of the citations you noted as being dubious or at least added another citation. --Al Climbs (talk) 23:08, 23 April 2019 (UTC)


 * A citation of the name "Sierra Madre" occurs in the joint hearing before the committee on energy and natural resources here:https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-107shrg80581/html/CHRG-107shrg80581.htm Unfortunately I do not know how to cite it.

--Al Climbs (talk) 23:29, 23 April 2019 (UTC)