Talk:Silent Hill 2/Archive 1

True ending of SH 2?
Which ending do you considered as a "true" ending? It seems like everybody consider the "In Water" as the canon ending due from a comment and hint from Silent Hill 4. However I personally think the true ending is "Leaving silent hill", after all the whole game is depressing enough at least that ending is a bit happy, also it could be arguable that its "canon" to the Silent Hill Universe. The reason why James father in Silent Hill 4 didnt see James and Mary for a long time could be because James is ashamed to see his father so hence James and Laura are living with new identity somewhere else in U.S. This is just a personal oppinion. hanchi 17:50 28 January 2006
 * Generally, the "in water" ending is considered and accepted to be canon and the final fate of James Sunderland. 75.2.15.114 18:40, 12 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Konami's official stance is that that their is no "true" ending, its completely up the player....as Konami put it, they are all "real" endings and its a matter of what story you wish to see and want to be true. I personally consider the "Leave" ending to be the true ending for me since it is the one that makes the most sense, where you achieve the main goal of the game, and most of all its the only way to hear Mary's full letter is the "Leave" ending.


 * My personal "true" ending is the Maria ending as it fits best in the Silent Hill spirit (at least for me). In the very end, when James is about to leave with Maria she coughs and says "I hope I'm not getting sick" this indicates that James' "wife" will again be sick and again James is going to kill her and so he'll be trapped in this Hell foreverLaBotte 01:09, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


 * My opinion on the Maria ending is that James has learned nothing in his trip to Silent Hill, and that he will suffer the same pain with Maria as he did with Mary. On the first playthrough, I got the In Water ending, and I think that's the best one. He and Mary never returned from Silent Hill, right? --Jojje 07:26, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


 * There is no true ending, the creators of SH have already acknowledged this in their guide "Memories" which analyzes each ending and states its "Up to each individual".

Changed Picture
I changed the picture of the cover art - I scanned a better quality pic (it's the PAL cover). Any objections? (Cipher Destiny)
 * No, it looks fine to me. But please sign off after making yout comments so that I know who am I replying to. -- S iva1979 Talk to me  20:03, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Endings
I added a section on the endings for the first game to help people understand the plot. Ik'm wondering if a similar section should be added to this section, as well as the others. Or if the first game's one should be taken out. There already is a section on the 'DOG' and 'UFO' endings. --thaddius
 * Since no one really objected, I added the list of the game's endings. --thaddius

Violence, cruelty warning
Is this really needed? It states that the game is of the horror genre, and that's to be expected. If people get triggered by such things, they shouldn't be reading graphic plotlines of *horror* games. I took it out. SZadeh 07:33, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Comparison to Hitchcock's Rebecca
For reasons of non-NPOV, I deleted the entry comparing SH2's plot to Rebecca. Some SH2 players come to the conclusion that James didn't love Mary and killed her out of self interest, but others believe that James did truly love her, that the murder was a mercy killing, and that he merely convinced himself that he killed her for purely selfish reasons out of the overwhelming guilt he feels. Even Mary herself challenges James on this notion.
 * Never knew anyone thought that he liked her. Yes in one of the endings he learns to accept her (the ending with Laura) but I always got the impression that he felt she was ruining his life. You don't think it belongs that's fine. I felt as though I was a stretch when I wrote it too. --Thaddius 16:30, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Both wrong, see James' entry on Translated memories (can't show here). James loved Mary, it even shows in the game he had fond memories of her. The problem is, both due to her violent mood swings and the stress of her sickness, he was driven to put her out of her (and his) own misery. (got too long winded, continue) Nearly all the endings show that James one way or another feels -sincere- regret for his crime, not because of it being a crime but because of -who- he did it to. In Water is so accepted as canon (which its not 100%, as each ending can be "canon" to each individual) In Leave, James accepts his crime and punishment, moving on for his own and Mary's sake. In Water, James shows he wishes to die with her (to be with her specifically). Maria shows Jame's never escaped his Silent Hill delusions, and "rebirth" shows him attempting to revive Mary. ALL of these endings show he cared deeply for her, until she developed her anger/disforming sickness. (wow, went from James love of Mary to debunking canon endings lol)

Crash (1996)
I was wondering... anyone saw 1996's Crash? The male lead is called James and the actor himself looks A LOT like James Sunderland. Besides that, the movie has some kind of Silent Hill atmosphere, imo. Anyone thinks the same? (ShinjiPG)
 * I saw David Cronenberg's Crash (A Canadian film). I don't think the two ressemble each other too well. And the plot of the film... doesn't seem to have much to do with Silent Hill.... does it? --Thaddius 01:39, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Not the plot, but the mood/atmosphere of the movie. I thought about Silent Hill all the time, while watching the movie. Besides that the James actor (from the movie) looks incredibly like SH2's James, even some of his clothes. Well, if they had some movies inspiration for the games (plotwise), why couldn't the characters be inspired by someone(thing) else? Anyway, it seems that I'm the only one with this opinion :P
 * It's possible, I agree, but that 'mood' is characteristic of almost every Cronenberg film. Ever see Dead Ringers, eXistenZ, Videodrome or Shivers? (I suggest you do if you haven't, just for fun) All of those seem to be of the same atmosphere. The main character does seem the same though, you're right. --Thaddius 14:25, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

No, it's not possible. Today I added a reference from Translated Memories, which shows that James was derived off "Jack the Ripper" and Mary from his victim, Maria being a derived form of Mary. Secondly, James was modeled and voice acted heavily by Guy C.(check James bio), so yes, you can scratch that off your list as possible influences.

Comparisons to Aguiealrea;lkjdvgha
San someone document that? Maybe with a quote from a programmer? Otherwise I think it should go... maybe. --Thaddius 19:02, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I updated the link, the first one I posted had bad quality, looked like it was shopped or something. I posted one of three images from IMDB which provides more proof. I think none of uslooked into this since SH fans wouldn't watch something like the Teen Choice Awards or have any interest in her. --Bebopblue 01:48, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Inference from the Article
From which part of the game do you infer that James had just killed his wife and immediately drove to silent hill to commit suicide?
 * I suppose that since James seems to think that 3 years have passed, when only one has, someone may have gotten confused. Maybe it's supposed to be a recap of the suicide ending? --Thaddius 12:37, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think that James wanted to commit sucide but it was only some weeks after the death of Mary that he went to Silent Hill you can find out this by veryfying the dates on some notes about Mary that you find in Brookheaven Hospital LaBotte 00:57, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Another thing supporting it being maybe even just a week since James killed Mary is the letter that Laura has from Mary, and how she wished her a happy birthday. Laura's birthday if I remember correctly wasn't long before the events of Silent Hill take place.

Mary's Letter
Serves no function that I can see. Especially in the endings section. I'm removing it. If you can justify it I suppose I'll stop interfering. --Thaddius 02:01, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

San Bruno CA
I just wanted to chime in that SH2 = San Bruno is not some baseless rumor, it's true. We just need a good source so it can remain in the article.

Shortly after Silent Hill 2 was announced in 2000, a gaming website posted an article that showed the town in Silent Hill 2 was based on San Bruno CA. They posted a series of screen shots and a set of corresponding photos taken in San Bruno. There was no denying that the town shown in the screen shots was based on San Bruno. It wasn't a loose adaptation, it was an exact replica. In any case, the article is long gone and I've been unable to find any evidence that could serve as a source, so I can't remove the 'citation needed' tag.

Nevertheless, here are four of the original screen shots that I recall from the comparison.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j285/Druffmaul/sh2_san_bruno_1.jpg http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j285/Druffmaul/sh2_san_bruno_2.jpg http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j285/Druffmaul/sh2_san_bruno_3.jpg http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j285/Druffmaul/sh2_san_bruno_4.jpg

Maybe someone from San Bruno can look at these and post some actual photos that correspond. Druff 18:17, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, parts of the town were based on San Bruno, CA, but that doesn't mean that Silent Hill IS San Bruno. Like many forms of media, Silent Hill has influences from a variety of different sources. Anyway, here's the website with the photos I think you were talking about: http://www.agony.igotaletter.com/rare_street.php You can see that at least one of the streets was based on the town. - RightClickSaveAs 17:54, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Picture changed?
I changed the picture to a scanned PAL cover some time ago (see below) - but now the picture is the same as before (Smaller, US version). Anyone have a reason why? (Cipher Destiny 17:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)) Changed back to mines. If it's changed back again, could I at least get a reason? (Cipher Destiny 17:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC))
 * Voice of Treason said he did it cause 'you can see the plastic'. I don't think he realizes that there isn't any plastic on the cover, just the half-moon shaped thing missing from the cover so you can pull the contents out and that it's beat up a bit. But instead of discussing it, he just changed it. I move that it be changed back, I liked the PAL one better. --Thaddius 14:15, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

The current one is the PAL one... Did you mean the old NTSC one? It isn't such high quality, but it isn't a little dog-eared like mines. (Cipher Destiny 01:05, 27 July 2006 (UTC))
 * I know the current one is the PAL one. I changed it back to the PAL one after Voice of Treason changed the pic to the NTSC one. Voice of Treason made a mistake and I corrected it, asking him to come here and discuss the cover image first before changing it again. --Thaddius 12:30, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah, right. So it stays the PAL one, for now. I'll try to get a better photo up, without the frayed edges. (Cipher Destiny 11:43, 3 August 2006 (UTC))

I was just thinking... Is it better to have the front cover of the game, or is it OK to have a pic of the manual? I could scan a picture of the manual, but if it's standard to use the cover than I won't. (Cipher Destiny 19:24, 5 August 2006 (UTC))

Anyone know why the picture was changed to the US box art again? There's been no posting of a reason why and I'm just curious why. (Cipher Destiny 14:06, 17 August 2006 (UTC))
 * I reverted it back, only to find that someone deleted the image. I think there's someone out there who really hates the PAL cover, so much that they don't even discuss it. I think that qualifies as vandalism if they just go around deleting pics. Cipher, please scan it again or repost it if you feel like it. The PAL cover is better looking that the US one. Once you've posted it we'll have an image gallery of all the covers put up just to appease these people. --Thaddius 16:44, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I still have it. Do we know who deleted it? Like you said I think this counts as Vandalism. I'll reupload it soon and you can then create this gallery. (Cipher Destiny 19:47, 29 August 2006 (UTC))

OK, reuploaded the pic. I called it the same thing so that the gallery works. Thaddius, if you wish you can change the larger main pic to this too. (Cipher Destiny 19:53, 29 August 2006 (UTC))
 * Pic was changed back again. I don't understand why either. This isn't strictly a US oriented place, there are other English speaking countries in the world. --Thaddius 19:53, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Fukuro
Why is there a redirection from fukuro (a early form of a shinai -- a bamboo sword) used for "traditional kendo" or related sports? 129.247.247.238 11:50, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * "Fukuro" is the name of a video clip from "The Art of Silent Hill" featuring Pyramid Head, which I assume is why it would redirect here, but I figure there should be some mention of it in the article itself. And if it can refer to entirely unrelated things, that should be cleared up somehow, but I'm not sure how to go about it. --72.72.86.198 08:19, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

"James dead bodies"
Quoting a new addition to the article: ''*In the apartment buildings, James finds a dead body sitting in a chair in front of a tv. This body is an early model of James.'' Although I don't quite get what you mean by "early model" I'd like to point out that there is, as far as I'm aware, no proof of this (besides them wearing james clothes). I can't even seem to find why James is seeing himself as dead bodies. Note the plural, the room in the apartment building isn't the only time you see a "dead james", you'll see his clothes on other dead bodies aswell (when you first enter the prison is one example I can remember). But yeah someone please add a citation to this, rather than "It's him because he has the same clothes" and maybe a bit of information as too why he's seeing himself. Code E 17:07, 18 August 2006 (UTC)


 * It's stated by one of the developers in the 'making of' documentary, included with the PAL version. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.26.16.67 (talk • contribs)
 * It might be best if you back that up with a quote\link\something. That's what we're objecting to.
 * Someone took the liberty of adding a pic to back up their claims. The only problem is there is no link for the people who supposedly used the debug code. Also the white pixels around James' head suggest that it was altered. Some more referencing might be needed. --Thaddius 05:19, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/silent_hill_2_dvd.txt That is a link to the Making of DVD script. It reveals that the dead body on the couch is infact James. "This corpse is James himself! Same face, same polygonal model structure. In fact, this is an image straight out of James' imagination."


 * The bodies he spots are officially projections from his own mind. It is not a coincidence that a suicidal man finds a gun and suddenly finds a projection of his own body sitting in a chair with his brains splattered while facing a television. This is a reflection of James watching the video in the Hotel at the end and having a bad reaction to it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.250.203.75 (talk) 23:52, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

Misinformation removed.
I have taken out the follow paragraph from the synopsis. I have done so because the statement it makes is not true - the quote from Konami does not point to whether or not there is a canonical ending for Silent Hill 2 as the original editor suggested. It is simply refering to each ending as being a real and complete ending, as anyone who reads it can see.

"In fact, Konami has officially taken the position that each ending presents its own "real" and complete story and it is up to the player and their actions to determine which story they want to see and accept as the true one. Therefore the ending isn't a debate over which is the canonized ending, but instead more of a factor of the personal interpretation of each individual player to determine what the 'true' ending is for them."

I'd appreciate very much if it be left out. If someone wants to rework this paragraph so that accurate information is reflected, so be it, but I think it's a shame that someone misused this reference to push their own agenda with reference to the game. SilentHylian 04:05, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Deleted endings?
I've noticed all the game's endings have been deleted. Why is this? Don't you all think that they should still be included, seeing how that they are important pieces of information regarding the game's ultimate plot/storyline?

-I agree that it should be re-inserted. If nobody have any objections, I will do it.
 * Sign your posts, please, with four tildes (~), and I have readded the endings. --Thaddius 19:59, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Plot
The plot section looks a bit long, in my humble opinion. Is there anyone else who agrees, or do people feel the work I did earlier was a step in the wrong direction? --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 21:25, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

a source
Is there an opinion on this apparent fan site for the game being used as a source, if only for opinions of influences? --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 19:35, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * If it's an apparent fan site then it cannot be used as a source. --Thaddius 15:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh well. Do you know if any of it was in the Making of DVD? --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 18:13, 12 January 2007 (UTC)