Talk:Silent Hill 2/Archive 2

Preparing for GA
I may be nominating this for GA soon. Any advice? --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 18:37, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I'll probably be getting some advice very soon. Nominating now. --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 23:31, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The article is written well, is in wiki format, and is referenced well. I have decided to pass the article into Good Article status however I would highlysuggest having some screenshots of the game because the article severely lacks pictures compared to everything else, and a well referenced article doesn't deserved to be frowned on due to that. I'm sure it won't be hard to find any screenshots. Pem  bro  ke  04:11, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Endings
The endings has become a rather ridiculous narrative. I think it'd be much better off as what it was previous: a list. --Thaddius 15:24, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I just put it that way because everyone prefers prose to lists. Perhaps when someone come to review it we might get more opinions. --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 15:34, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

some GA thoughts
I noticed this nomination when I was nominating DNF for a GA. I'm not going to review this as I suck at grading, but here were some thoughts:


 * 1) Film section looks like some original research. It should also be expanded, briefly.  For instance, how does the film version of Pyramid differ from the game version?  Who says that the nurse monsters are similar - we can't make this judgment, someone else has to (like in a review or something).
 * 2) Influences and design sorely needs some citations. Like this line: The presence of a mysterious creepy man mirrors Pyramid Head's character as well.  It reads like WP:NOR to me.
 * 3) Games. although whether or not there is a connection between the scenes is unclear. is speculative and should be removed.
 * 4) Reaction could use some expansion. For instnace, what does "Tilt" mean?  Why was the PC port version lower than the console one?  does the criticism listed in the PC port paragraph apply to the console release?  "By the end of October" - of what year?  Don't make me scroll back up to the top to see what year this was released.
 * 5) Prose in general. Most obviously sounds extremely condescending, like "Well, duh!"

Just some thoughts. Hbdragon88 08:25, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

PC version, Nvidia logo, ATI Glitches
I'm not sure if this is too small of detail for the whole article, but I find it interesting (and annoying, as I own a ATI card). The PC version of Silent Hill 2 was ported to the computer by a company called "Creature Labs", and bears a NVidia "The Way It's Meant To Be Played" Logo. On some ATI Radeon cards, however, the game was apparently not tested well- the dynamic lighting of James's flashlight does not appear on level geometry (though it does show on characters and items, and shadows are still drawn). http://www.konami-data.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=19453&page=1

http://www.driverheaven.net/showthread.php?t=121279

http://www.driverheaven.net/showthread.php?t=128982

At the very least, the involvement of Creature Labs in the PC port, and the Nvidia logo should be mentioned in the article, I feel. 4.239.87.210 07:40, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

More info on the PC version: The port recieved worse gradings from reviews due to it's poor default controls, which made controlling James and the camera more difficult than with a controller (though USB controller support is enabled). Save anywhere, and quicksave/quickload features were added. 4.239.87.210 07:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * If you find me some more reliable sources on this (i.e. not forums) I'll try to put this information into the article --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 14:55, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Creature Labs themselves seem to have gone through a change, and they have no records of their previous work on their page, and I can't find any mention of their involvement in SH2's PC port anywhere online. However, they are directed credited for the conversion in the game's credits: http://x72.xanga.com/483d544610632104666766/b73960743.jpg 4.239.66.205 20:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh here, finally: http://videogames.yahoo.com/gamenews?cid=1991282808&tab=news&page=0&eid=-1 Online source stating Creature Labs as the PC Dev. I can't find a thing on the dynamic lighting problem except forum posts, however. The SH2PC readme clearly states in it's trouble shooting section that for every known problem it just says that "it's expected to be fixed in a later driver update" from ATI or NVidia. The dynamic lighting problem itself isn't mentioned, but problems with AA, decal and effect flickering, and problems with resolutions and random text errors in menu screens.

"KNOWN ISSUES There are some known issues with the very latest graphic chipsets available. It is likely that most of these known issues will be fixed in future driver releases from the graphic chip manufacturers. We recommend that you keep your graphic card drivers updated, by checking the manufacturer's web site regularly for new drivers.  A list of the most common hardware manufacturers' web sites can be found at the end of this document.

Windows XP - If you are running Windows XP, there is a slight chance you may notice some random text appearing on the Control Options screen. This should not hinder your ability to edit your control settings.

Changing resolutions - On certain systems, after playing the game for a long time, the game may return to the desktop if you switch screen resolutions. We recommend that you set your screen resolution before playing the game, and if you wish to switch resolutions after playing for a long while, save your game before changing resolutions.

ATI Radeon 9700, 9000, 8500 - With the latest drivers available at the time this was written, you may experience some instability and flickering on the new ATI Radeon cards if shadows are enabled. We expect this to be fixed in new driver releases from ATI, so make sure to update your graphic card drivers regularly.

NVIDIA GeForce 3, GeForce 4 - With the latest drivers available at the time this was written, you may experience flickering on water surfaces and blood. We expect this to be fixed in new driver releases from NVIDIA." 4.239.66.205 21:39, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Added a PC release section, with the verified info above. I left out mention of the ATI shortfalls, though I did mention the "The way it's meant to be played" label and linked it to the appropriate article.

Sequels
I think the 'Sequels' section is unnecessary because 'Connections to other media' section already mentions the sequels to this game. --Mika1h 20:14, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * If no one objects perhaps the relevant information could be merged with "Reaction" --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 22:30, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Criticism
"Other criticism directed at all versions of the game included complaints about the dialogue and the lack of any sudden frightening scenes."

While it is true that the quoted articles criticize Silent Hill for not having shock-effects ("But the problem with Silent Hill 2 is that it's all atmosphere and no real scares."), I'm not exactly sure if that should be in the Wikipedia article because Silent Hill defines itself as a genre through subtle horror. The gamespot article basically blames Silent Hill for not being Resident Evil, and that would be like blaming a David Lynch movie for not being like Dawn of the Dead. --Akor 02:23, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Understandable, but it is criticism nonetheless, however. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.44.255.7 (talk) 22:23, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism
There's some major vandalism of the article near the end of the plot section, and a rather large block of all caps text in the endings section. Can someone please revert/fix/whatever needs done? MassiveDamage 05:33, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Other Ending
Shouldn't the specical ending that was in the PC, XBox, and "Greatest Hits" version be listed with the others with a note that they are only avalibal in the above areas? 64.16.40.18 07:12, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

henry sullivan
was also mentioned on a grave stone below the prison, with his childrens graves and james.

Fukuro
why, when i search fukuro, does it bring me to this page, even though it is not mentioned on the page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.49.22.136 (talk) 00:46, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

See this thread from the archives. Someone really ought to write an article about what the hell a "fukuro" actually is. --Lenin and McCarthy |  (Complain here) 02:09, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Huge, Unmarked Spoilers!
I went to this page out of idle curiousity, and I was astounded to see the degree to which the plot is spoiled with no warning whatsoever. I left the section that's specifically about the plot alone, but, come on, the "Gameplay" section has absolutely no business divulging the identities of the bosses during the game, especially when the two human characters who fight James are intended to be a surprise.

Karasuman 01:34, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

If you read the "plot" or "gameplay" section, it's kinda obvious there are gonna be spoilers. 67.186.131.2 (talk) 02:34, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Inspiration
Why is there no mention of David Lynch's obvious influence on many elements of the game, from the sound (the atmospheric industrial grinds and slams are straight out of eraserhead) to the atmosphere (very twin-peaks-like, in terms of the actual town of silent hill), right down to some scenes in the game! (I'm talking of course about the scene where James watches Pyramid Head rape the leg-monster from inside the closet, which is a near-direct quotation from and homage to blue velvet.) [bold]me[/bold] 19:06, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I would really like to be the one to write these facts in, but I'm having trouble finding reputable sources. I know there was something about it in the making of feature... [bold]me[/bold] 05:29, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I think Team Silent mention being inspired by Lynch in general in an interview, but nothing about the specific scenes. --Lenin and McCarthy |  (Complain here) 17:45, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I'll look around for that. [bold]me[/bold] 19:06, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

GA status/ review
I have taken this article to GA review to make sure its still up to standards. --Lenin and McCarthy |  (Complain here) 20:01, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Seeing as no one noted it, the debate ended without consensus with two standing votes to delist. The plot has been trimmed, but some more work may be needed. --Lenin and McCarthy |  (Complain here) 05:03, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Born From a Wish
It mentions in the 'to do' list that a short description of this should be added so I went ahead and did so. Sadly it's been a while since I played the particular scenario and I mostly went from the description on Maria's character page. If there's anyone out there who played the thing and would like to add\expand it would be much appreciated. --Thaddius (talk) 14:05, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Try looking at a Youtube playthrough. It worked for me with DYKing Typing of the Dead --Lenin and McCarthy |  (Complain here) 03:30, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That's actually a good idea. I just watched a few and threw something together. I hope that's all that needs to be done. --Thaddius (talk) 01:23, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Canonical Ending
I believe UFO is, because if it were canon for all of them, then it would make sense why the town wasn't featured in SH4. --65.87.242.28 (talk) 18:20, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Interesting theory, but SH3's Heather wouldn't exist if not for the GOOD and GOOD+ endings of SH1. Because SH5's protagonist has the same last name as Maria's maiden name some people are hoping that the gameplay will reveal which ending was the canonical one. There's also the fact that SH5 apparently be revisiting Silent Hill itself at some point (although if it takes place before or after SH4 is not known). --Thaddius (talk) 17:25, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, the novelization that was recently released in Japan pretty much confirms that "In Water" was the "true" ending. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 18:07, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Important Story Influence!
So. I feel like a big toolbag for not saving the link, but someone on IRC pointed me towards a German play written around the turn of the century with a story strikingly similar to SH2's, specifically in its protagonist's leaving to meet his wife, who he thought dead, and finding in another place her flighty doppelganger prone to leading him towards danger. The scene with James and the videocassette is rendered on stage much more abstractly, as a flashback (if I recall correctly), and I would LOVE to know (as I'm sure many of you would) what this play is called and who wrote it. Please help! - Tzaquiel (talk) 01:54, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Someone captured the List of Silent Hill Influences and Trivia here. The play you're referring to is called 'Die tote Stadt' which roughly means 'The Dead City'. --Thaddius (talk) 15:55, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I added a reference to it. Hope it fits in. Might need to be sourced eventually seeing as how it's a tad original research-ish. It can be removed if need be. --Thaddius (talk) 13:50, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It needs to be sourced. Right now it's complete OR, not just a "tad". --Mika1h (talk) 20:09, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I was under the impression that the 'might' and 'tad' portions of my comment were clearly sarcasm as there are no degrees to original research. My mistake. Are you going to remove the section then? --Thaddius (talk) 17:53, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, if you're not going to source it. --Mika1h (talk) 19:53, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You misunderstand - I was inviting you to. Again, be bold.--Thaddius (talk) 15:02, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

GA Status/Review?
Is this still a Good Article? References appear to be the biggest problem, with Gameplay entirely unreferenced, Born From a Wish and the Connections to other media section a bit low on references, and a somewhat overly-large Endings section which could do with a few more refs. In addition, the reception section is a bit short, with no mention of what (specifically) the reviewers found good/bad. SynergyBlades (talk) 02:11, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

I've thought the same thing for a bit. I got a GA review going a while ago, but for some odd reason it actually survived. I'll support delisting if it comes to that --Lenin and McCarthy |  (Complain here) 02:27, 26 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I've redone the section ordering as it was quite scattered, and I've condensed the plot (as well as subsectioned the BFaW scenario), along with significantly compressing the endings section, integrating it into the plot section. SynergyBlades (talk) 04:12, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Greatest Hits / Restless Dreams
Hi. I just wanna ask if there is any difference at all between the Silent Hill 2: Restless Dreams, and then the one called "Greatest Hits"? The article's concent doesn't fully clarify me.

/Thomas —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.92.112.234 (talk) 21:52, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Restless Dreams was the version released for Xbox. The 'greatest hits' version is the budget release of the version for PS2. Both are essentially the same game, the only differences being the subtitle and system of release. The main difference between these two and the original PS2 release was that the original didn't have the born from a wish side story. --Thaddius (talk) 19:38, 4 December 2008 (UTC)