Talk:Silmarils/Archive 1

Untitled
mi hermano martin de mar del plata le digo silmarils —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.213.72.167 (talk) 00:49, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

posted on plural page, needs merging:


 * Done. Eric119 05:28 Feb 16, 2003 (UTC)

In Tolkien's Middle-Earth,

The Holy Jewels made by Feanor, in which dwelt the blended light of the Two Trees before their destruction by Morgoth. The Silmarils were encased in a crystal casket in Feanor's house at Formenos in Valinor. His father, King Finwe of the Noldor, was slain at the doors of the Formenos house for possession of the Silmarils. Once he had them, Morgoth fled to the north of Middle-earth to rebuild his kingdom of darkness.

Feanor, in a fit of rage, swore a terrible oath that he and his sons would stop at nothing to regain the Silmarils. Morgoth, meanwhile, placed the Silmarils in a crown of iron, which stayed upon his head for several centuries. Feanor led most of the Noldor back to Middle-earth where a long and bitter war was waged for the Silmarils. Five terrible battles were fought until Earendil the Mariner and his wife Elwing voyaged to Valinor to seek the aid of the Valar.

At the end of the final battle (the War of Wrath), the two remaining Silmarils (see Thingol, Beren and Lúthien) were returned to the two surviving Sons of Feanor - Maedhros and Maglor.

Now, the First Silmaril sails across the sky as the Star of Earendil. The Silmaril of Maglor is in the unreachable ocean depths. The Silmaril of Maedhros lies deep inside the earth, where Maedhros cast both himself and the jewel in shame for his deeds.

The article says that the Silmarils were taken before the Two Trees were destroyed. The Silmarillion says the opposite. What's the story here? Eric119 6 July 2005 06:10 (UTC)
 * Melkor first destroyed the Trees, and then went north to Formenos where he killed Finwë and stole the Silmarils. However the request by the Valar for Fëanor to give up his Silmarils so their light could restore the Trees came before they learned of the raid on Formenos.

-- Jordi· ✆ 6 July 2005 13:03 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's what I thought. I'm going to fix the article, then. Eric119 6 July 2005 17:29 (UTC)

Plural form: Silmarils or Silmarilli?
The plural forms of Silmaril all have been changed from Silmarils to Silmarilli (Quenya plural form). I would disagree with these changes as I think we should use the English, not the Quenya form, as Tolkien did so as well in his book The Silmarillion. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Galadh (talk • contribs).
 * I'd agree that 'Silmarils' is going to be more familiar to most readers of the encyclopedia. The proper Quenya plural should certainly be mentioned, probably in the lead, but I don't see any problem with using the Anglicized plural form. --CBD 09:52, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I now changed it to Silmarils again. Galadh 12:50, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Feanor's refusal?
The article says that Feanor refused the Silmarills to the Valar. I think that the text of the Silmarillion says that he had not decided (and seemed to be leaning towards handing them over) when news of the attack on Formenos reached Valmar, thus making the point moot. Feanor later denounced possession of the Silmarils to any but himself and devised the Oath which he and his sons took.

MJD 2006 November 29 10:50 AM EST

Feanor hesitated for a while, but then said, "This thing I will not do of free will. But if the Valar will constrain me, then will I know indeed that Melkor is of their kindred." (in other words, if they forced him to give them up, they were no better than Melkor.) Nienna went off and wept for the world. Only then did the news of their theft arrive. Vultur 03:34, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Holy Grail?
I don't know as we should include this bit about the Holy Grail in the Silmaril article. Unless someone can find a reference for it in Tolkien's letters or commentary that would render it more worthy of inclusion, then it opens us up to saying that any legendary magical object was a precursor to the conception of the Silmarils, which is an unnecessarily broad criterion for inclusion. The Kelevala I can see, because of the deep importance of Finnish within the formation of Quenya and Sindarin, and perhaps the Ring of the Nibelung, but the Holy Grail just seems like a pointless addition. Sighter Goliant 22:03, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree completely. Evidence suggesting a link with Wagner's Ring of the Nibelung is questionable at best and heavily refuted at worst. There are many articles and cases against this direct link, though we know Tolkien to have been familiar with the opera. In Tolkien's own words, and his son's thereafter, the only similarity the one ring has with the Ring of the Nibelung is that both are round (in one of the letters). The use of magical objects for specific purposes extends far back into every major literary and mythological tradition about which we know, including Norse and Greek. The Kelevala is a piece of original (and uncited and baseless) research, though certainly provides an interesting argument. The Holy Grail is similarly irrelevant. 74.109.214.27 (talk) 18:56, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Earendil and the Silmaril he wore
I was just wondering Earendil gain any strength and/or power from the Silmaril he wore? Did JRR Tolkien ever write about how Earendil's Silmaril enhanced his fighting prowess? Ever since Earendil came into possession of his Silmaril, it seems that Earendil has accomplished many deeds that are definitely beyond the power of Elves and Men. I would appreciate any answers to my inquiry. Thank you. Albert Cheng 22:58, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Earendil's Silmaril let him pass through the "Shadowy Seas" blocking the way to Valinor, where the Valar had placed bewildering enchantments. Beyond that, I'm not sure what was his own doing and what was aided by its power. Vultur 03:36, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for answering my question. The answer you gave was great, and I think I understand the Silmarils much better now. Albert Cheng 21:45, 21 June 2007 (UTC)