Talk:Silver State Helicopters/Archives/2011

Content
I have restored a large amount of material which was removed by an IP editor. The material is not all directly relevant to the article, but much of it is well-referenced, and I don't have time at the moment to edit it down. I certainly don't think it all should be removed. Brianyoumans (talk) 23:07, 27 November 2007 (UTC)


 * "The material is not all directly relevant to the article" ...and that is why it was removed. The material was inflammatory and poorly researched.  Among the sources referenced were bash sites and sites with incorrect information.  The bulk of the material, though gramatically written in a NPOV, was not neutral at all, and focused on negative allegations.  I absolutely contend that it should be removed.  And whether I logged in to my regular account or edited without logging in is irrelevant, and pointing out that an "IP editor" did it shows bias.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.254.249.18 (talk) 00:15, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree that the material was clearly intended to slam Silver State Helicopters; I'm not sure I agree that it was all irrelevant. Some of the information about the founder, while slightly tangential, is I think interesting and relevant enough that it should be included. He isn't notable enough for his own article, so this article is clearly the place for it. The long list of accident reports I agree should go; I think it should be summarized in some fashion, and if possible related to the accident rates of other companies in the industry. The information on lawsuits against the company should also be edited down; some of it seems relevant to me, some of it... well, every large company is sued on occasion, business disputes are part of life. Would you like to attempt to edit the removed material down along those lines? Or do you simply want to remove all negative material from the article? I have to warn you, if you want to do that, there are going to be edit wars over this article (and they won't be with me, since I'm not the person or persons who added this material.) If we come up with a balanced article, I would be willing to help maintain it that way. Brianyoumans (talk) 03:57, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


 * You yourself stated that the material is clearly intended to slam the company. How is material intended to slam a company in any way relevant and worthy of inclusion? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.120.198.98 (talk) 18:43, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


 * My remark about "IP editors" - Edits by an IP get extra scrutiny, because they frequently come from someone who does not have much knowledge of Wikipedia or of the history of the article. Brianyoumans (talk) 03:57, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Sanitizing
I have once again reverted the removals, which amount to removing all negative material from the article. As I say above, I think some of this material should be removed, and much of it summarized and put in context - but I don't have the time to do it right now, and almost all of it is at least well-referenced and reasonably well-written. 63.254.249.18, if you in fact want to clean up the article and make it look a lot less negative, I suggest you spend the time to edit it down along the lines I suggested above. If you continue to simply remove everything, you will just get blocked from editing. Brianyoumans (talk) 16:47, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


 * If you think the material should be removed, then stop putting it back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.120.198.98 (talk) 18:43, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

NPOV
This article is questionable. The original author's negative slant is readily apparent. By looking at the history of the article, it is also clear that attempts have been made to edit down the article in a manner suggested but revision wars have ensued despite compliance. This article will be edited further to remove all slant either way and only state the facts, as time permits. Also, an article on this topic was previously deleted in Wikipedia, which should be considered as a viable course of action here again.

Also removed biased information taken from non-NPOV editorial. S31 (talk) 06:52, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Referencing improvement needed. Copied text needs to be sourced properly (quoted)
The article seems well-written and well-sourced for the most part, at least at quick glance by me. However, the blanket disclaimer generated by use of the "USGovernment" template states that the article or a section of it "incorporates text from" an NTSB database. This is an indicator of poor referencing. It calls into question all the other work by wikipedia editors elsewhere in the article or section, as copied text is not distinguished from editors' wording. So I added the tag indicating in-line citations are needed, they are needed for wherever text is copied from the given source. It would be better to put any such copied text in quotation marks or block quotes (see WP:REF for tips), and then remove the blanket disclaimer. Sincerely, doncram (talk) 17:33, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

E-mail from Jerry Airola to employees
Folks, stop placing the text of the e-mail from Jerry Airola into the article. It is not encyclopedic content. Feel free to cite from it. If people wish to read the complete context of the e-mail they can view it under the Vertical Magazine citation under References. Thank you,--Trashbag (talk) 20:28, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Management Section Incorrect
The Management section was incorrect in its entirety. To be included it should first be researched properly. The current management of SSH is only Jerry Airola, but since the company is defunct, there is little need to clarify the article further. Likely, it should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.189.132.95 (talk) 01:47, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you have any references otherwise? Currently I see two references in that section therefore I have returned it to the article.--Trashbag (talk) 19:32, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * SSH terminated ALL employees. The only people left on the books are those with ownership in the company (Jerry Airola and Steven Pickett).  I see no other references to a management list that are accurate as of this date.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.189.132.95 (talk) 12:28, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Your IP address is one I recognize from the Silver State days through email I tracked between SSH executives. Of course you want your name off the list, eh? Well, too bad. You participated in this scam, so you're going to deal with the consequences. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.201.156.10 (talk)

Silver State Helicopters in 1980?
Hi all, with the rescent hotel fire in Las Vegas I was puttering around reading up on the MGM Grand fire from November 21, 1980. I noticed on page VIII-3 of the Clark County Fire Investigation report of that fire it lists the third helicopter on scene as Silver State Helicopters. The pilot was a man by the name Ray Poss. I am curious if anyone knows of a connection of the SSH in 1980 to the operator that closed this year. No doubt there is always the possiblity that this may be a completely different operation. --Trashbag (talk) 04:16, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * More on Ray Poss' envolvement --Trashbag (talk) 04:17, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Silver State Helicopters referenced here didn't form until 1999. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.188.183.7 (talk) 21:08, 10 June 2009 (UTC)


 * That was a different company with the same name, defunct long before 1999. - Ahunt (talk) 21:17, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

3 sources sent via wp:OTRS.

 * Nelson pushes feds to investigate helicopter school - Jacksonville Business Journal
 * Senator Calls For Investigation After School Closes, Leaves Students In Debt - Jacksonville News Story - WJXT Jack
 * Firstcoastnews.com - Jacksonville, St. Augustine and Brunswick - Senator Bill Nelson Wants Federal Probe into Silv

I don't know the article subject matter or the sources, just relaying what was emailed to OTRS in case it's helpful. -- Jeandré, 2008-06-01t17:38z


 * Thanks - that has been incorporated into the article. - Ahunt (talk) 00:13, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Rotor & Wing article
Rotor & Wing recently ran an extensive article discussing the timeline and circumstances surrounding the collapse of SSH. --Born2flie (talk) 12:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Is available on-line, or just print? Is there anything that can be gleamed from it to improve this article? - Ahunt (talk) 14:11, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Found an electronic copy. I don't know how it compares to the print addition. I've seen it floating around the office but I haven't been able to lay my hands on it yet. --Trashbag (talk) 14:55, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


 * It is a fairly complete article and goes over the general operating concept of the company, as well as key events. It is a good reliable source and should be incorporated into the article. I can probably make a start on it over the weekend, but feel free to beat me to it! - Ahunt (talk) 17:06, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Done. See what you think. - Ahunt (talk) 14:32, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Student debt case
User:Kwilhelmy has now twice added a large quantity of text containing a lot of opinions without citing a proper reference that can be verified for all this text. Please see WP:V for verifiability requirements. This text can be inserted with proper refs found, although it will need a lot of work to change it into encyclopedic language instead of a collection of unsubstantiated allegations. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a blog on which to post accusations, original research and your own conclusions. If you want to include this information can you please provide a ref that says all this and let's put together an explanation from that. - Ahunt (talk) 11:37, 10 September 2010 (UTC)