Talk:Silverstein (band)

Cleanup and POV
I cleaned up the article significantly, as well as removed some commentary I believed to be in violation of WP:POV Considering the statements removed were based upon some direct quotes or releases, and no references were found, I felt that they were violating POV and WP:BLP If you feel they were improper, ask questions first, revert later? :]// 3R1C 00:10, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Weasel Wording
The statement.. "While they do ape many elements of these genres, some street team promoters place them in the "emocore" genre." is clear weasel wording and in some way should be rewritten to avoid this
 * I am not sure if they actually said that yet (I have not found any proof online of such a quote yet). From what I've seen of them on their videos and such they seem to have a sense of humor (oh wait, humour - they're Canucks) so I wouldn't be surprised if the quote attributed to them is indeed a band quote, albeit a facetious one. Cjmarsicano 06:56, 28 March 2006


 * Seems to be taken care of jerkmonkee 18:21, 30 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Thats statement is silly "some team promoters place them in the "emocore" genre. Well yes, that would be an exact description of a blend of Hardcore, Emo and Punk so that sentance uses two phrases to say the same thing.

"Their song "Smashed to Pieces" was used (and butchered) by American Idol contestant Ryan Hart on the January 31, 2006 program." No matter how many people may or may not agree with the statement "butchered", it's obviously nothing but an opinion, completely unnecessary. The ignorant kids who have nothing better to do but insert their opinions into unfortunate article need to..go away. Removed the "(and butchered)". Shatha 19:16, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

How come no one noticed this line?

 * The band's determination to "break down the boundaries" between their bank accounts and their fans' wallets prevents them from being so easily categorized.

This line is obviously a piece of vandalism. I've deleted it from the main article. To the ignorant piece of shit that posted it to the article, I say... start your own band. Cjmarsicano 06:02, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I laughed, at least. 71.19.6.20 15:53, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Also... Why is there a picture of Chris Masters in a sombrero as their main picture?
 * Because someone is "updating" the pictures on a number of band articles. You have to click on the picture, go to a previous version, and select revert.--Wehwalt 16:47, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

SILVERSTEIN IS SCREAMO
-Silverstein is a post-hardcore band. They are not screamo/emo. LISTEN TO THEIR MUSIC, its easy to tell. Iii9ix3 04:01, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. Discovering the Waterfront has a real melodic sense to it, definately not classifiable as screamo, same in Ides of March.Starom*** 18:29, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

--Listen to their lyrics. Listen to Told's vocals. They are no doubt a post-hardcore band first and foremost, but they can most certainly be classified as emo as well. I know people like to deny certain bands are emo, but I see no reason not to classify Silverstein as emo. - Razorhead 1 April 2007

- They are a emo/screamo band because they call themselves emo/screamo so don't whine about it.

- I added Emo, Punk Revival, and Screamo to the list of genres (which had previously only listed post-hardcore), and added a reference to all four (allmusic.com) which I've seen listed as a reference on several other band pages. I agree, they are predominantly Post-Hardcore, but you can't deny that they are a mix of Emo and Punk as well, and some of their earlier work most definitely could be described as Screamo. - Syncretic 2 May 2007

In my opinion they Are emo but not that Mtv emo, they are the true emo!Xr 1 20:43, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I guess you've never heard bands like Rites of Spring and Embrace then? Inhumer 20:47, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

they don't sound exactly like the bands you mention because these bands existed in the 80s.I've heard Rites of Spring.They were one of the first bands to make emo which came out of hardcore punk and that's why their sound is closer to hardcore and punk. And give me one reason Not to call Silverstein emo. And why is Silverstein Emo- , Here are some other soucres but although they're not so reliable. , ,     Xr 1 20:52, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Guys, everyone is gonna say something about a genre of a band but seriously. does anyone care if someone else thinks they are emo or not? really. stop argueing and just take it for what it is.

Why someone bothers to change it - I've added a source.the removing of emo is made just on personal opinion disregarding the source.Wikipedia works with sources and removing thing I've found source for is wrong. Xr 1 08:24, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I haven't touched your edits myself, but I looked at your source, and it doesn't say they are emo. It says they combine elements of emo with elements of hardcore and metal.  (I am paraphrasing, but that is the gist of it).--Wehwalt 14:43, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah,that's right.In the source is said that they combine emo with other styles.Which means that in the genre section emo should be included as well. And anywhere you look you'd see Silverstein described as an emo band.I also add another reference if the first is not enought.Xr 1

First thing emo back in the days is not exactly the same as emo is now, but hardcore in the old days isn't the same as hardcore is now. Second thing, why should you call something emo? What's the big difference between emo and post hardcore?

I guess you ment 'First thing hardcore back in the days is not exactly the same as hardcore is now, but emo in the old days isn't the same as emo is now' because amo get musch indie, alt.rock, post-punk influences since its creating.And some bands get more pop elements and became mainstream which started the mtv emo.. However bands like silverstein resembles the music from the second wave but it's made in a contemprary way and lacks this pop thing. Post-hardcore describes anything experimental that came from hardcore punk (like post-punk and punk).In that case - emocore Is Post-hardcore.Xr 1 23:13, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Post hardcore has to contain some elements of hardcore punk to be considered of post hardcore, like thrice "Hold fast hope" and enter shakari "Sorry you're not a winner" are both post hardcore. the song i'm listening doesn't have any hardcore to it (smile in your sleep) the screamings more metal.

How are they not emo?They have lyrics about pushing blades into their veins(bleeds no more)wich really isn't emo because emo means emotional,but then again they also have very emotional lyrics,and they scream,alot.Although not every band that uses screaming is emo,its only screamo when you combine the screaming with the emo,wich is what silverstein is.There not metal,no distortion on guitars,no agressive lyrics nor vocals,they would be metalcore before metal,and there really not metalcore. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.235.186.185 (talk) 00:41, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

The kid above me has no idea wtf hes talking about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.169.189.82 (talk) 01:53, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Silverstein spans genres such as Emo, Screamo, Post-Hardcore, Power Pop, and Punk Revival. I edited this to the genres and even stated a reference. It makes me really ticked that someone keeps changing the genres back to Post-Hardcore and Emo. --24.1.205.187 (talk) 03:05, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Silverstein should be labeled also as hardcore, some songs show —Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.206.159.237 (talk) 14:36, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

THEY ARE EMOCORE/POST-HARDCORE/SCREAMO
LOOK AT THEIR MYSPACE PAGE www.myspace.com/silverstein

Theres a difference between emo and emocore.. emocore refers to the wave of hardcore punk that was emotional. it was still hardcore punk though. Emo was what came after(Moss Icon); it which was talking instead of yelling; it was no longer hardcore punk. Then there was hardcore emo, which was chaotic version of emo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.118.197 (talk) 21:34, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.130.4.8 (talk) 01:24, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I think that you should label them as everything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by CalebChaos (talk • contribs) 10:23, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

MCR's myspace page say's they are metal. Check mate. --99.252.89.118 (talk) 19:12, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Why would we care about what MCR's myspace says about Silverstein?--Wehwalt (talk) 19:21, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Some bands don't want to make themselves too specific, so they could have more fans if you know what I mean, while Silverstein is quite honest, you can even check out Hawthorne Heights' Myspace, it said "Rock/Rock/Rock"... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shangthemusic (talk • contribs) 19:00, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I have been deleting the "emo" genre seeing as SILVERSTEIN THEMSELVES have said that they are not. they said they hadn't even heard of it until they started getting tagged as it. Also, you cant cite MySpace as a source according to WP:CS, so if you even bothered to read the rules you would see that your argument is irrelevant. In addition to that, Post-Hardcore is essentially the "official" name for "emo" o I don't see why this is such a pressing issue for some of you. --Stevedietrich (talk) 21:55, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Silverstein 12.jpg
Image:Silverstein 12.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 14:46, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Silversteinpromontreal.jpg
Image:Silversteinpromontreal.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

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Assassination of Julius Caesar?
I highly doubt that the song "Ides of March" is "based on the assassination of Julius Caesar", I mean, listen to the lyrics. If you read the wiki article on "Ides of March" you'll read that "The term has come to be used as a metaphor for impending doom." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xjuliix (talk • contribs) 19:42, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, and as I couldn't find anything supporting that, it is most likely somone's opinion. Deleted. 72.87.63.14 (talk) 20:12, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

It says it's about Julius Caeser's assassination in the booklet of the CD. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.31.252.230 (talk) 04:35, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Thats right actually, I own (or at least I DID own the CD until I lost it) the CD and it says in the booklet they wrote Ides of March after they read about Julius Caesar or something like that. --Stevedietrich (talk) 19:29, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Metalworks Studio
I know this is unsourced, but if someone could find a source for it and prove it, that would be great. On november 17th I went on a field trip to a tour of Metalworks Recording Studio in Missisauga Ontario, and we were denied access to "Studio 1" because Silverstein was recording there. I can't find any info about where they are recording, but I know this is true, if anyone has a source for this, please add it to the article.--Jordanlorenz (talk) 22:39, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe just email them, it says how to on their web site, or leave a myspace message?--Wehwalt (talk) 22:51, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Been giving it some more point, and it is my thought it should be in the article on the 4th CD when they announce the name. Very often, by the way, bands put the place of recording in the liner notes.  That is probably the best source.  A return message from the band just wouldn't be a proper way of sourcing material on Wikipedia.  Have you checked the liner notes for A&D?--Wehwalt (talk) 03:36, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Silverstein's Bonus DVD from "A Shipwreck In The Sand" shows the band recording in Metalworks studio. And around 32:25 (min:sec), Shane even says "We're hanging out at Metalworks, it's our very last day...". Would this be satisfactory source? --Tristwin (talk) 05:00, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

A Shipwreck in the Sand
I've read the speculation on absolutepunk that the new CD will be called A Shipwreck in the Sand, and the reasoning seems pretty convincing. However, this is Wikipedia, where we don't go with rumors, but with verifiable information. We'll keep the CD as "TBA" until an announcement is made.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:49, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Well the website where the viral campaign began now says love from PJBNS or somthing, the initials of the band members —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.30.45 (talk) 17:40, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't doubt it. Just their sense of humor.  And the countdown clock ends on March 31, 2009, the album release date.  But we still have to wait for an announcement.  Although I am somewhat struck by that website referring to the "American dream", given that the guys are Canadian.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:40, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Due to continued unsourced adding of that name, I've semiprotected the article, preventing new or unregistered users from editing this article. The semiprotection will be lifted on 31 March or whenever they announce the CD name, whichever comes first.  If they make a official announcement, and I don't notice it, please leave a message for me on my talk page or seek the help of another admin at WP:RPP.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:09, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Emo Genre/Protect Article
I constantly delete the "emo" genre from this bands genre list, seeing as the band themselves have rejected the genre. I am calling out to any admins for this article to be semi protected seeing as this is becoming an ongoing problem. --Stevedietrich (talk) 23:01, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * If it's sourced it doesn't matter WHAT the band members say. If you continue to do this, your edits will be considered vandalism and I will start giving warnings. • GunMetal Angel  00:12, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Generally, we will include a genre if it is stated by the band OR a significant number of reviews.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:24, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Which in this case it has been stated by more than enough sources. Take this for example; Gerard Way of the well-known rock band My Chemical Romance has once stated that "emo is bullshit" and then followed to saying that his band "was never emo", even though the article on Wikipedia has it stated on emo, and you know why? Because it's stated by a reliable source. Bands just don't like bassically to be labeled as any genre, they all deny it whatever it is, so it really doesn't matter what the bands say, it's the reviewer's job to lable them, not them themselves; I mean take another thing for example; a lot of deathcore bands hate being called deathcore; but it's just a music genre. So the fact remains; we're not gonna go support Silverstein's denial of what has been clearly sourced and stated as their genre. This talk page thread is just pointless. • GunMetal Angel  08:34, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * If the band calls itself emo, I would include it. If a significant number of reviewers call it emo, per WP:DUE, I would include it.  If the second is true, then what the band has to say about it isn't really relevant.  My understanding, though, is that they generally avoid characterizing themselves by a genre.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:30, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

OK then, so what you are stating is you're fine with emo genre on the article? I mean every band goes and cries over what they're categorized as, so Silverstein is no different. • GunMetal Angel  00:12, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't care what the genre says. And from what I have read of the band, they really don't either.  Can we settle this without constant reversions by you two?  I'm not going to take administrative action here, because I've done quite a few edits in this article and supplied a lot of the images, and for other reasons, but if this doesn't stop, I'll post at AN/I and ask for an uninvolved admin to come in.  The admin is likely to see this as an edit war, remember guys, 3RR is not an entitlement.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:15, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * That would be the best idea to take in hand. But now that this agreement has been reached, it's all on Stevedietrich now, so if he continues to remove the genre his edits will be considered vandalism. • GunMetal Angel  05:25, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Alright, whatever, I will not change the genre again. Its not that bug of a deal really it also just seemed to me that Post-Hardcore IS the "official" term for "emo". --Stevedietrich (talk) 23:15, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Live album?
Should an article for the live album that was recorded recently be created now or should we wait for its release and added notability? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Obamamaniac (talk • contribs) 16:40, 20 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I haven't seen the guidelines for that in a while, but I think you need the album title and track listing before you can create a page --30daysinAKK (talk) 22:51, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

They are not emo!
Silverstein was never an emo band, they have always been post-hardcore/alternative rock. Emo is a mix of hardcore punk and indie rock, they don't seem like this at all. And another thing. They played alternative metal in their new album, so the genres section should be like: Post-hardcore Alternative rock Alternative metal (recently) —Preceding unsigned comment added by AwesomeUsername555 (talk • contribs) 14:45, 18 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree with you, the closest Silverstein came to emo was years ago. Sadly, that's not how Wikipedia works. We get the information on this site from reliable sources, & three reliable sources (including CBC) call Silverstein emo. If you'd like to find some references claiming that the band is alt. rock & alt. metal, that would be fine.
 * (p.s. the same goes for Alesana and the genre "metalcore") --30daysinAKK (talk) 22:01, 24 April 2010 (UTC)


 * If it's sourced than that's that. Sorry guys. Also, the person that started this thread was permabanned due to his genre warring. (: • GunMetal Angel  04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed, though this in no way prevents other genres being added if reliable sources can be found for them.--Wehwalt (talk) 05:56, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Shane Told meets the notability guidelines for his own article
He has his own record label, Verona Records. Reliable source: http://www.punknews.org/article/15422 Jkim4007 (talk) 18:44, 14 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Feel free to write an article. I'll get Kww to look at it, he is an admin expert in such things.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:46, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Cleanup
Have been doing some cleanup, re-writing and re-wording some parts of the main article, as well as the album articles. I've also been going through everything on the main page, attempting to find reliable sources for the information already on there, but having a bit of trouble, especially with some of the early stuff. Anyone got any newspaper / magazine / tv interviews or facts on the band? Most references are just online ones, it would be good to have some written references as well. --Tristwin (talk) 05:06, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Main article tags
According to the main article template documentation, this is used for sections that summarize information and link to different articles with more information. In the case of Discovering the Waterfront and When Broken Is Easily Fixed, there is actually more information here than their respective articles. The other album articles, except maybe A Shipwreck in the Sand, don't have a significant amount of addition information. For example, the Background section of Chinese Democracy has a "main article" link to History of Chinese Democracy, because the latter contains a significant amount of additional information compared to the former. It's also generally used in situations were you wouldn't ordinarily use the title of the secondary article in a sentence, like in the Chinese Democracy example, but also in discographies. See The Smashing Pumpkins and The Smashing Pumpkins discography. It also doesn't make any sense to provide a link to these album articles just before a link to these album articles. In most situations here, a link to an album article is in the very next sentence following the "main article" tag. The reader will be aware that by clicking on the link used in prose, it will take them to an article with more information. We don't need to remind them. Fezmar9 (talk) 16:34, 5 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Fair enough, point taken. Oh and on the subject of references for "Vices" being released as a single, it was only ever a digital release, and I'm not sure if it was ever released outside of iTunes. However it was released separately prior to the released of the full legnth album, and had separate cover art to the album as well. It even had it's own single page created at one point. In the A Shipwreck in the Sand article there was a reference for the "Vices" single release. I attempted to copy that reference, however that link has expired and the page no longer exists. Although did find a couple of other references, one from the band's official website and another from an interview. --Tristwin (talk) 14:09, 6 December 2010 (UTC)


 * That's the tricky thing with using online references, not all of them last forever. I am usually hesitant using official band websites, partly because they seem to be scrapped and redesigned each time a new album is released, but also because they're a primary source directly related to the subject. However, in this case it looks like their news posts date back to 2004, and information about a single being released shouldn't really raise any flags about being biased, so I think it's okay here. See WP:PRIMARY for more details on that one. Fezmar9 (talk) 14:42, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Shane Told does not play keyboards in the band, and never has....
So it currently states at the band member list and that chart thing that Shane Told plays keyboards in the band (2003-present). Yeah, not even. Silverstein hardly uses keys in their songs at all, and Shane Told is not the person who definitively is the one recording/writing them. I know on A Shipwreck In The Sand it was Paul actually. I think Cameron Webb produced the synth found in my Heroine. All I know is, Shane doesn't play em live, and is not their keyboardist. So that should be removed. Idk how to get it out of the chart thing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:D:CF00:9C0:5A6:A4E9:D4C6:6DDC (talk) 19:56, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

He played the piano for Forget My Heart in the Rescue deluxe.  Discovering The Waterfront    (talk) 18:27, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Short Songs is a studio album
I am only creating this section to have something to point to when I revert edits that classify Short Songs as an EP and/or the band's upcoming studio album to be their seventh, not eighth, studio album. Here are many reasons why Short Songs is Silverstein's sixth studio album, why This Is How the Wind Shifts is their seventh, and as such, why Silverstein's upcoming 2015 album is their eighth:

—Fezmar9 (talk) 01:10, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The band categorizes Short Songs as a studio album – The band's official website's discography categorizes Short Songs as a studio album not an EP and so do their Facebook posts.
 * Hopeless/Universal categorize Short Songs as a studio album – Hopeless Records, the label that released both Short Songs and This Is How the Wind Shifts, considers This Is How the Wind Shifts to be the band's seventh studio album and labels Short Songs as an album, not an EP. Universal Media, Silverstein's international distrubuting label for This Is How the Wind Shifts, labeled it the band's seventh studio album in a press release.
 * Third-party, reliable, published sources categorize Short Songs as a studio album – Reliable sources (which are what Wikipedia articles are to be based on and is really the only argument here that matters) such as MTV, AllMusic, Noisecreep, Alternative Press call Short Songs an album, not an EP, and many of these call it the band's "sixth studio album".
 * Other discographies categorize Short Songs as a studio album – Other discography websites such as Rate Your Music, Discogs and AllMusic list Short Songs as a studio album, not an EP, and This Is How the Wind Shifts to be the band's seventh studio album.
 * Song duration does not determine whether something is a studio album or an EP – Some people who are trying to categorize Short Songs as an EP are doing so because they believe a release that's shorter than 30 minutes is what defines an EP. This is not the case. There are many studio albums that are shorter than this (Weezer, Hell Songs, Reign in Blood) and many EPs that are longer than this (Heart Ache, Broken). In fact, many of the studio albums that inspired Short Songs were extremely short (Chaos Is Me, Dance Tonight! Revolution Tomorrow!, Gatefold, Gorilla Biscuits, Start Today, Milo Goes to College, Gob, Ribbed, Self Entitled, Chixdiggit!, Born on the First of July, From Scene to Shining Scene) — which was the point of Short Songs, to pay tribute to these short albums comprised of short songs.


 * Fine, you win for the sake of the Wikipedia page, but Rise Records and Silverstein recently announced they were going to start work on their seventh album. Oh well.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.57.33.234 (talk) 16:13, 23 September 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm just going to leave this here... https://www.facebook.com/RiseRecords/photos/a.432695027494.219680.120690707494/10152741862682495/?type=1&theater — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.57.33.234 (talk) 16:19, 23 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Rise Records' social media pages are run by interns, meaning some some 16-year-old kid probably typed that. This is why social media pages are widely not acceptable for in-line citations for Wikipedia articles. That one sentence that might have gone un-fact-checked by a staff member of Rise or a member of Silverstein does not trump all of the above evidence. If, a couple of years from now, the abundance of sources shifts from referring to Short Songs as an EP rather than a studio album and that's how it's seen from a historical perspective, then absolutely Wikipedia should be updated to reflect this. Unfortunately, the preponderance of evidence right now is currently in favor of "studio album," so that is how it shall remain. Fezmar9 (talk) 17:10, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Mention signing to Rise Records
the article needs to say that the band announced they signed to Rise Records whenever that happened. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.151.206.167 (talk) 02:58, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Should Redux be listed as an album?
In a way it is an 'album' and is listed as such, but really despite being all re-recorded, its more of a compilation. Its all songs that were on previous albums. Just like how 18: Candles isn't listed as an album, or another example is A Day To Remember's re-recorded and rearranged version of their first album And Their Name Was Treason, Old Record is not listed as an album on their page, this shouldn't either. It says right now in the edit section for it that it "contains previously unreleased material like short songs" but that isn't true, Short Songs featured 22 brand new tracks, 11 of which were Silverstein originals, while this features ALL songs 10-17 years old that have just been re-recorded. I don't see how the songs being re-recorded makes this different than a compilation album. It should not be called their 10th studio album. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alliamisadeadreflection (talk • contribs) 04:58, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

Vancouver
I'm almost positive that they were from there (then moved). Can anyone confirm?