Talk:Silversun Pickups/Archive 1

Name collision
The song "Lazy Eye" is also the title of a song by the Goo Goo Dolls, according to the disambig page. So what is the WikiProject Musicians' procedure for disambiguating these two? -- llywrch 23:36, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 * No, as that song wasn't a single and doesn't have a page. Doc Strange 17:54, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * What do you mean "no"? That song does have an article, and regardless of whether it was a single or not, it charted on Billboard, hence it achieves notability. The KZA 00:26, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Why would it matter if a song has the same name. you know how many bands/singers have the name "wake up" as a song. ftw.

Suggestions, new information
A mixed version of Lazy Eye is featured on Global Underground 32 Mexico city, by Adam Freeland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.99.76.150 (talk) 22:22, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Authorship issue
The Song "Lazy Eye" is a re-working of a previous song by a Taiwanese band - Pendantic Mushroom by Bad Daughter off of their 2003 release, Small Sun. I'm not sure it's credited, but what is the procedure for that? Tothiro 23:13, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Brian Aubert has stated that the song was written well before the recording of "Carnavas" and that it loosely based on his eyesight when he was younger. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.191.233.161 (talk) 06:11, 19 March 2007 (UTC).


 * No it isn't. The two i took the time of downloading the Pandantic Mushroom song. Neither song sounds alike. The only thing the songs have the same is a simple bass line and a title. Doc Strange 12:06, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

With respect, I'd suggest you give them another listen back to back (perhaps BD first) taking into account the uptempo change in the SSPU version. I think you may notice a clear majority of the guitar work (not just base) is actually identical, though the sequence in which the elements are introduced is different.


 * So you can make an argument that "Smells Like Teen Spirit" by Nirvana is essentially "More Than A Feeling" by Boston because they share similar guitar work. Doc Strange 14:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, Cobain did say he ripped the riff off right out of "More Than a Feeling". MrHate 12:06, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * No, he said he ripped of the Pixies on that song. Doc Strange 19:24, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * A reworking?!? Since when does two songs having simple 8th note bass lines make one of them a "rework" of the other? If so, I think both bands should credit U2's "With or Without You", as an example.  If you want to keep discussing technical details, these two songs are in different keys, and they have different chord progressions, for starters. Perhaps you'd have more luck claiming it sounds like [Pachelbel's Canon] Raile 19:09, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Either way, until the band addresses it (or a reputed music critic) we can't say anything as it is not verifiable. TT 22:27, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the last two people. It's NOT a reworking. At all. No one can claim ownership of an 8th note bass line. And we should wait until either Brian (the writer) or Nikki (the bass player) say anything further. Doc Strange 12:38, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Hello can some one please give me a site where i can hear the bad daughter song pedantic mushroom i would like to compare too. To be honest i would delete this whole discussion because its not about the rhythms and notes its about the lyrics and melodies. listen to radio nowhere by bruce springstein and 8675309 by tommy to tone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.186.64.155 (talk) 20:41, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

In games
We should add that: "Melatonin" was released as downloadable content for the Rock Band series, as well as "Well Thought Out Twinkles". And for Guitar Hero World Tour & 5 a pack of three songs by them was released: "Panic Switch", "It's Nice To Know You Work Alone" & "Well Thought Out Twinkles". —Preceding unsigned comment added by GastroTV (talk • contribs) 00:34, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Where are the singles artwork
Shouldn't there be artwork for the singles? can someone explain —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.37.101.248 (talk) 02:50, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Smashing Pumpkins comparison.
"Silversun Pickups are commonly compared to the Smashing Pumpkins due to the sound of the band and the vocals as well as the fact that the two band names share the same initials."

Is there any sort of source for the claim about the vocals? I'm listening to them right now and hear absolutely no similarity in that particular aspect.

agreed. and. how old is the bass player in this band?

I wholeheartedly agree that there's no comparison detected by my ear. But, because it's a completely sourceless claim, I'm removing it. Feel free to re-insert if anyone has a cite. BlackberryLaw 06:52, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I think you'd have to be a willfully ignorant fan of this band to not detect vocal similarities to Corgan. When it gets into the screaming range, their voices differ more, but on the mellower stuff the tone is extremely similar, and I'm sure intentional given the similarity of their music. 10 March 2011 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.37.151.250 (talk) 21:38, 10 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Be reminded that from the start, Smashing Pumpkins was wholly Billy Corgan's idea. Even now, SSPU seem like a group, instead of oh, say Brian Aubert taking control of everything. Doc Strange 20:49, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That's... not really relevent to anything. MrHate 01:02, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The Smashing Pumpkins comparison is quite common. It might not be completely warranted (like the Interpol - Joy Division comparison), but it shows up in almost all of their reviews.  See the Pitchfork review of Carnavas,.  The subtitle of that review refers to them as "Smashing Pumpkins soundalikes" and the review itself states, "Those nostalgic for Smashing Pumpkins tunes of yesteryear will find them nestled inside the minutes (and there are so many minutes) of 'Lazy Eye'."  Brian Aubert commented on the comparison in this article from May 2007 :
 * "'I think it's a cool comparison. I think it's really, I understand it completely. When we were kind of swimming in the indie-er markets, the pool of what people knew about with bands was much larger. They really pulled out amazing things that I was like, 'Yes, that is a Built To Spill rip-off right there.' But with the bigger markets, they're like, 'Built to what?' So the Pumpkins, that was, like, where we landed. We're the new Pumpkins. There's a lot worse things to be, I think.'"
 * It might not be relevant to the article, but there are plenty of sources which could be used to verify that the comparison has been made. - Authalic 21:43, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Anyone who has heard Lazy Eye and doesn't detect any audible similarities between Silversun Pickups and Smashing Pumpkins must be hearing impaired. The tune sounds more like the Pumpkins than the Pumpkins' new single "Tarantula"


 * I can see why comparisons might be made, but I think it's unfair to say these guys sound like the Pumpkins. I just listened to the first 5 songs of their album to hear for myself and I think they sound MUCH more like Fulflej (who were a band on Iha and Wretzky's "Scratchie" record label).  In saying that, I haven't heard "Lazy Eye" yet.  MrHate 01:02, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Wait a sec...is there ANOTHER argument on the talk page? I mean we've already squibbled over the alleged plagarism of an 8th bass note on a song, now were fighting about the influence on SSPU by the Pumpkins? Wikipedia talk pages are not message boards, folks! Doc Strange 18:41, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Does nobody see the parallel between SSPU's vocals and that of Superjesus' ? (Jet age album- compare to song; gravity) To me, they sound far more alike than smashing pumpkins and sspu. I mean, the lead in SSPU sounds like a female (not that theres anything wrong with that) where Smashing Pumpkin's lead sounds more masculine, twisted, with its occasional angelic qualities and less smooth than sspu and superjesus' spaced out sounds. Levi 4:58, 18th September, 2007 (EST)

Silversun Pickups doesn't sound anything like Smashing Pumpkins to me. They sound like they were influenced by My Bloody Valentine more than any other band. Interstingly enough, so were the Smashing Pumpkins. I think that solves the Smashing Pumpkin issue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.242.26.64 (talk) 22:09, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, yes...they sound alot more like MBV than the Pumpkins 24.250.35.215 (talk) 17:34, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

just like to add that the main guitar line in this song has been used countless times, by radiohead, jimi hendrix, smashing pumpkins to name a few. nobody can claim ownership to it. that's like saying "good riddance" is a rip off of "wonderwall" because they both use some of the most common chord conversions in guitar music. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.121.58.168 (talk) 21:33, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

D'Arcy from the Pumpkins called into Q101 and ranted about some wierd stuff before talking about how the Pickups' singer doesn't sound like Billy. Interesting tidbit, she would know Billy's voice better than most anyone. Aside from that, the musical influence is there. I can see a few similarities, I can't imaging anyone saying the two bands have absolutely nothing in common musically. I think anyone who loves 1979 would also love Lazy Eye. It's easy to say that just about any band is like the Pumpkins because of all the different styles of music they've done. The Pumpkins are like Radiohead, Foo Fighters, Marilyn Manson, Nirvana, Silverchair, etc. depending on what song you're listening to. This shouldn't even be an argument. Hukt own fonikz (talk) 18:37, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

I just heard my second SSPU song on the radio (first was in a record store) and I'm just going to throw this out there. They don't sound particularly like Smashing Pumpkins to me, but they sound eerily like For Squirrels (the song was Substitution). 71.161.2.157 (talk) 16:11, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Band Members
Can we get a page for each of the band members please —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.32.150.159 (talk) 04:46, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No. Where do people get the idea that every person that's in a band has some osrt of significance other than the band? Please read WP:NMUSIC. kiac.  (talk-contrib) 05:31, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The same place they get the idea that every band is entitled to an eponymous category and a dedicated template, most likely. Bearcat (talk) 03:22, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think everyone should get a own page either, but maybe the playing of the drummer is notable. He is right-handed but plays the Hi-Hat und Crash-Cymbals with his left hand while he plays the snare with his right. I think it influences the sound. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SkySilver (talk • contribs) 21:31, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Can we at least get a listing of the band members and their roles, I came here to find out which one is the lead singer and still have no idea.173.226.80.130 (talk) 14:13, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think you tried very hard; there's very clearly a subsection titled "Band Members" already. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silversun_Pickups#Band_members )  Sergecross73   msg me   14:24, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Lead singer's voice
I think this is one of their defining characteristics, it's been described as "breathy", akin to Billy Corrigan (and others). If anyone wants to add it in (I'll probably get to it later). – xeno talk 17:17, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

I removed "effete" because its inappropriate. Wiktionary defines effete as "Decadent, self-indulgent". I don't think this adequately describes the various voices Brian Aubert sings in. He has quite a soft voice through many songs and yet many tracks underlay his soft lyrics with a semi-screamed dub. In other tracks he fully lets rip, a manner that could hardly be descfibed as "effete". Just my 2c. SDM 2123 31-08-12. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonicdeathmonkey (talk • contribs) 09:25, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Associated Acts
Revision https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Silversun_Pickups&oldid=678560817 added Garbage and Happy Hollows as "associated acts". I don't believe either of these qualify, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_musical_artist#associated_acts.


 * One member of Silversun Pickups appeared on one Garbage song.
 * One member of Happy Hollows toured with Silversun Pickups in 2012 as a temporary replacement.

These both fall within the "groups with only one member in common" and "one-time collaboration" scenarios, so I've deleted this section of the infobox. tlesher (talk) 19:43, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Carnavas
It went Gold in the US recently. If anyone knows how to add certifications to the discography, could someone do it? Regretfully I have no idea how.  danny music editor  oops 02:30, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Source for Kennedy as former member
An exhaustive search of the Wayback archives can be tedious, but what about this article from The Guardian reporting that Kennedy had been kicked out of the group? (Or did I somehow completely miss the point?) Fabrickator (talk) 05:11, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... I don't know if one aside in a piece with the tone that this has will be enough. It sounds a little like a PR bio and it's unclear, to me, whether this is a joke or if this is a fact. If it is a fact, there is no dates of his tenure or any other information like that. I'd try to find something more in depth than this. It also doesn't cite the "A Couple of Couples" thing which is the main part of what I took out of the article. Doc StrangeMailbox Logbook 05:35, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * For the moment, I'll set aside the issue as to whether it's appropriate to delete a claim merely because the source is no longer accessible, rather than to replace the broken citation with . Additionallly, I take exception to your dismissal of content of the sources due to lack of dates or to your inference that it's all a joke
 * Maybe I'm still missing something. It seems that it's admitted that the details about the "couple of couples" are not true, consistent with The Silversun Pickups and Their Rise to Fame (medium.com).? There is in fact this archive link, but I can't really untangle your thinking about this.  To the extent of my ability to discern things, the sources seem to be consistent with the claims made. Fabrickator (talk) 06:27, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I think we can probably add back the Buzzbands LA link with Aubert and Monniger denying the Couple of Couples rumor - It's actually still live online - if you think a refutation of the rumor belongs in the article. But I'm also not sure if a denial of something where we can't seem to find any reliable source of it being true belongs on this page. Maybe to stop people from adding it back? Doc StrangeMailbox Logbook 06:48, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I also understand your exception to my comment on that Guardian piece. But I just don't think it's enough to confirm he was a member on its own. Aside from this Guardian source and interviews where Aubert and/or Monniger deny the band ever being called A Couple of Couples, Citogenesis kind of makes it hard to look for sources about these supposed members and this supposed name otherwise.  Doc StrangeMailbox Logbook 06:55, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * How's this for a possible addition based on these two sources? Doc StrangeMailbox Logbook 07:11, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * ''Los Angeles musician Jack Kennedy claims to have been a former member of Silversun Pickups. . While rumors have circulated of the band once being called A Couple of Couples, both Aubert and Monninger deny ever using that name for the band. '
 * I appreciate your proposing how best to adjust things, I may not be grasping the significance of all the inputs. But can you explain the doubt about whether or not Kennedy was actually a member of the band? You're suggesting that statements to that effect were just a joke, when it's stated as fact in The Guardian?  Fabrickator (talk) 08:59, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * My issue with the Guardian article is its tone of it, which to me reads as hyperbolic and humorous. There's a Wall Street Journal quote that doesn't seem to be real, for instance. I do think it might be on the right track, so I did look around for another source for a Kennedy being a member of Silversun Pickups. One of the only hits I got was a Discogs listing of a 2002 split single SSPU did with the band Pine Martin (Joe Lester's band before he joined SSPU, incidentally), that lists the members of Silversun Pickups at this point as "Brian, Nikki, Kennedy, June". Which seems to me like a confirmation of at least Kennedy possibly being a member of the band. Unfortunately Discogs is listed as generally unreliable on WP:RSP, so we can't use that. The other one is an Allmusic bio, which is nominally a reliable source, but it also repeats the A Couple of Couples stuff the band has denied. In light of these two sources, what do you think should be done about the inclusion of this information? Doc StrangeMailbox Logbook 14:24, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * You seem to be denying the ability to distinguish between statements of fact and statements of opinion. It seems to me that the statements of fact in the Guardian story in fact check out, and it's therefore arbitrary to dismiss them. Fabrickator (talk) 16:05, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say that, it's more the tone of the piece was throwing me a little. If you think the Guardian article is valid in this case, I'm not going to argue against it. In that case, how do you think this information should be incorporated into the article? Doc StrangeMailbox Logbook 16:26, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * My efforts to find alternate sources sucked up a bunch of my time and energy, I just needed to stay away. There are too many things so badly broken on WP, given what limited time I can spend on WP, trying to figure out what I thought you were looking for, just didn't make sense.  Current band says there was never a group referred to as "couple of couples", others say there was.  So I guess that's whether or not Kennedy was ever part of the group that was to become Silversun Pickups. Depends who you ask, some say yes, others say no... which seems to be exactly what The Guardian states as fact.  So should we.  Anything else, I'm not sure I have much opinion. Fabrickator (talk) 19:01, 17 July 2022 (UTC)