Talk:Simchat Torah

Comments of 2008 and earlier
The article fails to acknowledge and explain the 2 day issue with people outside of the Land of Israel...71.156.40.78 01:04, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Unreferenced sections
Hi! I've added unreferenced tags to some sections after resurrecting them from a previous immediate delete. Much of this article is currently unreferenced and subject to challenge. Given that it is a perennial problem (and opportunity) of Wikipedia's Judaism section that editors arrive unfamiliar with Wikipedia's policies, I would suggest that editors concerned about the unsourced content use a gentler approach and add {[fact}} or similar tags and wait a decent period (a couple of weeks) before engaging in wholesale deletion of unsourced content, rather than doing so without warning. Given that there are no WP:BLP or similar legal issues involved here, I believe this will better facilitate a balance between the need to enforce policies and the need to maintain colleagiality and cooperation. Thanks, --Shirahadasha 22:18, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Accuracy, please
In cleaning up the article for accuracy, I noted that the reference cited for inebiration and hard liquor being part of the Simchat Torah experience didn't say anything like that. Perhaps in some Reconstructionist temples people go all out on Simchat Torah, but hard liquor and stupid pranks are not in the spirit of the day. Yoninah 14:27, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Differing customs
In reading this article, I notice that too many different customs are being lumped together. I have been to a dozen or more Simchat Torah celebrations in shuls here in Jerusalem, and not once have I seen some of things described here, like carrying the Torah scrolls out to the street or calling up a Chatan Maftir. And while Dweller has never heard "Moshe emes" being sung at any shul (presumably in America), I can tell you that it is standard practice here in yeshiva minyans and all hareidi neighborhoods.

Perhaps the editors would be willing to break out Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, "yeshivish", and other customs into separate paragraphs, so that the reader can understand each custom in its context? Yoninah 23:18, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

List of improvements
Hi. Maybe we should list some ways to improve this article. Has good potential. Thanks. Feel free to add to list. HG | Talk 12:44, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Clarify customs (see previous comment). I don't think these need to be divided by denomination, but we do need to reference them. Images would be great!
 * Use of simchat Torah as a public celebration, including Moscow etc. Images of Moscow or Israel, etc?
 * Explain diaspora vs Israel w/o presuming diaspora as norm
 * I think some of the Ortho vs Conservative distinctions are artificial and also incomplete -- what about all the synagogues that don't identify either way, yet do some of these customs?
 * Explain the religious significance or meaning of the holiday, diverse views as needed. (Did I miss it?

Reorganized Comments (2012)
I have reorganized the prior comments into a single level-2 heading so that we can have a clean discussion on what this article needs. readded the "needs references" template in September 2012, and I agree. But let's start discussing what needs to be fixed, cited, etc. before we start wholesale cuts. Thank you. StevenJ81 (talk) 17:27, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Tag: Globalize
Hello, I have tagged this article because I am ware that it does not represent a global view of the holiday, since the description is particularly biased towards American and Ashkenazi customs. The article needs to be enriched to add the Israeli, Mizrahi and Sephardi customs and be more clear that the American Ashkenazi customs are not the only type of customs, otherwise does not represent the entirety of Jewish practice — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.29.23.57 (talk) 23:51, 12 January 2014 (UTC)


 * We'd be delighted to have you contribute some of that enrichment! But do participate, not just critique. Thanks. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:26, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

New section added here. Please feel free to contribute 209.29.23.57. Thanks! — Spike  Toronto  18:53, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Formatting issue
So I just wanted to flag that the formating of the page makes it so that the words שִׂמְחַת תּוֹרָה‎ appear backwards. Not sure how to fit that - just thought I'd note it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.158.173.151 (talk) 21:42, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
 * It's not that way on my computer. It might be an issue with your browser settings. StevenJ81 (talk) 22:12, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Wrong dates
Ok, I think this needs to be addressed here in the talk, as there has been a tug of war between myself and another user (Transcendental).

For one, as an Orthodox Jew I think I would know when our holidays are. But if you look on any Orthodox Jewish site (like Aish or Chabad or example) for the dates you will see that what is being shown in this article is a day off.

Plus wikipedia itself shows this error. For example, lets look at the dates for 2020 and compare this article with the one for Shemini Atzeret. In Israel both are on the same day (which the Shemini Atzeret article says). In the Simchat Torah article the dates given are "Sunset, 10 October - nightfall, 11 October (12 October outside of Israel)". Now look at the Shemini Atzeret article... it has "Sunset, 9 October - nightfall, 10 October".

So hopefully everyone can see the error now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brak (talk • contribs)


 * Simchat Torah started on Saturday evening and ended Sunday evening. Saturday was the 10th and Sunday was the 11th. So what do you think is wrong here? Debresser (talk) 09:21, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

In Israel Shemini Atzeret and Simchat Torah were both Sunset, 9 October - nightfall, 10 October In the Diaspora Shemini Atzeret is Sunset, 9 October - nightfall, 10 October and Simchat Torah is Sunset, 10 October - nightfall, 11 October

The article is stating that Simchat Torah is Sunset, 10 October - nightfall, 12 October

So where ever you are pulling these dates from is causing a +1 day offset error.

Also I put the disclaimer back up until this is resolved, as this has potential to cause issues for those of us who actually observe these holidays. In fact, that is how I discovered it. A while back, before I had a new calendar, I googled real quick what the dates were so I could schedule some things near the holiday. A few weeks before the holiday season I notice I had scheduled something on the holiday!!! So I had to reschedule (it was a dr appointment, so it caused a 6-week delay in seeing that physician). I was like "how did this happen". Well I traced my steps and saw that the wiki page has this error. Brak (talk) 22:06, 14 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Upon further reflection, you are correct. Which still doesn't mean you should be putting disclaimers in the article. The problem is with the Calendar date template, and this edit should have fixed it. Debresser (talk) 22:35, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the correction, but its till not completely correct. It should say (Evening, 10 October - nightfall, 11 October outside of Israel).

Also, the reason I was doing the disclaimer was due to me not knowing (and I still don't) how to edit modify the date template. Brak (talk) 02:01, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Question. You stated "Again, no change that is contested can stay until consensus is reached." So if someone posted something harmful like "drinking bleach cures COVID", that harmful info would stay until a consensus is reached? Shouldn't there be a disclaimer that it is being contested in order for people are aware and hopefully not act upon it? Brak (talk) 02:05, 15 April 2021 (UTC)


 * I agree with your correction. That is something you should write on that talkpage of that template. Please go to Template:Calendar date to do this. I will support you there.
 * Quite the opposite. Such an edit would be removed till such time as there would be consensus for it (never). Debresser (talk) 07:25, 15 April 2021 (UTC)