Talk:Simone Biles/Archive 1

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Beginning of career
Can someone with who knows and understands gymnastics well please clarify what the article means by "began her career" in 2011? Was it the start of her career in elite competitions? Is there another name for the competition system she entered? I'm just looking for some detail that will clarify what counts as the start of a career because it sounds like she did some sort of competitions before that. Thank you! Knope7 (talk) 00:55, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Other Sources
This Buzzfeed piece has a lot of great information which I think can be integrated into this article. Also just worth a read if you're interested in Simone Biles.Knope7 (talk) 01:10, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
 * This Time article also has some good details to integrate, specifically 1) flexibility is what held her back as a junior 2) her first senior event went poorly 3) talks about higher start values for her routines 4) stress of expectations 5) demeanor during practice. I think the article in general can use more details that provide a fuller picture of Biles outside of her placements and scores in competitions. Knope7 (talk) 00:09, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Picture
I know the new picture is more recent, but I think the previous picture was better. Any chance we could use the previous pic in the info on and maybe move the current pic to 2016? Knope7 (talk) 14:59, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
 * No, the previous picture File:Simone Biles at 2014 P&G Championship.jpg, was a non-free image used here against the non-free content criteria (namely replaceability by free media) and it will be deleted. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 15:31, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

schooling
When the article was very young, it said, with a reference, that she attended a particular high school; yet now it says she was home-schooled. It seems that some-thing isn't right. Kdammers (talk) 19:35, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * She was home schooled throughout high school. This is supported by multiple reliable sources and cited in the article. If you can find a reliable source which states the name of a school she attended previously, and the information is significant enough to the article, then it can be included. The name of her elementary school or middle school just may not be that important. Knope7 (talk) 19:41, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The citation that gave her as being in a school is to be found at http://web.archive.org/web/20130306071629/http://www.gym-style.com/simonebiles/about.htm . A few months later, that archive turned up the same site with changed content, saying she was home-schooled.  That's all I know. Kdammers (talk) 21:32, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Someone please add...
Can someone who is able to edit the article please add the following sentence in the the 2016 Rio Olympics section?

Biles' performances were widely hailed as the greatest ever.

I just think that is a pretty important opinion to add. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.161.71.234 (talk) 05:29, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Five Olympic Medals
Whomever is responsible for editing this Wikipedia pages, would they please double-check the facts on the comment made that Nastia Lukin and Shannon Miller are the only two other Americans to have won five Olympic medals at a Summer Olympic ceremony. The reason is because Mary Lou Retton did accomplish this feat as well, despite it being a boycotted Olympics by the Russians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:140:8100:1895:F4A3:C422:8B60:EB7D (talk) 19:39, 16 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Welcome! Anyone can edit Wikipedia. Currently it looks like this article is having a significant problem with people adding unsourced trivia. If Simone Biles is the third or fourth American gymnast to win five Olympic medals, that information should be sourced. If no sources have actually written about this, then it is probably not significant enough to include. Knope7 (talk) 00:28, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Medals
Please discuss the issue of which medals should be included here rather than continuing to revert the article. I know project gymnastics has a consensus on this, but if anyone would like to elaborate, please feel free to do so. Knope7 (talk) 00:24, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree. I am sorry for starting an edit war. I have discussed this issue in my talk page with, but his/her way of addressing the issue is very aggressive. There is a hidden warning on the source code of the article about Simone Biles informing not to add American Cup medals to the medal record, which Wikipedian Captainbryce1 ignored, and decided that his opinion is more important than what he calls "irrelevant subset of gymnastics fans". You can read it here. Since the medals can be mentioned on the article, I see no problem to keep these medals mentioned there, but the discussion on Project Gymnastics leads us to believe they should be removed from the medal record. This is what I ask for, and because of that wikipedian Captainbryce1 has accused me of being biased against Simone Biles, as if this was a matter of a personal hunch. Most wikipedians decided that medals earned at the World Cup series, which the American Cup is currently part of, should not be added to the medal record. In other sports, medals earned at multi-stage events are not included to the medal record either, such as Swimming and Diving, for example. We need input from other users on how to resolve this dispute here before taking this further to an administrator. -- ThiagoSimoes (talk) 16:27, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for commenting. Unless there is a compelling reason to add the American Cup medals, I'm fine complying with the Project Gymnastics consensus of excluding them. It seems fair to allow the American Cup outcomes to be integrated into the article elsewhere outside of info or navbox. I don't think the exclusion of the American Cup medals in anyway diminishes Simone's accomplishments. Knope7 (talk) 01:02, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The American Cup is not even entirely documented on Wikipedia. Not even the US Gymnastics federation offers a full list of medal winners. There is only one place I've found that lists all the medalists, but no one has created pages on Wikipedia for the events, except for the most recent ones. -- ThiagoSimoes (talk) 23:41, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Simone's four gold medals at Rio
The fact that Simone won four gold medals at Rio is a historical fact for the U.S. women's team and an exciting one. This edit: poor edit removed this edit without discussion and without providing rationale. I have restored it. There needs to be a discussion before it is removed arbitrarily again.ML (talk) 18:23, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

"Final Five"
The article refers to Simone as being part of the "Final Five" -- I came to the article to understand what the term means, and found that it is not explained here. I think this might be an interesting expansion of the article, if someone who is knowledgeable about this wants to do so. Please ping upon any reply due to watchlist overload. Etamni &#124; &#9993; &#124; ✓ 08:41, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

Doping accusations
This shouldn't be left out. Athletes from other countries are always prejudged. At least keep it consistent. --2.245.102.108 (talk) 00:44, 17 September 2016 (UTC)


 * The hacking a release of her medical records does deserve a mention, however, it is not as you characterize it. Biles received advanced permission for a therapeutic use of the drug found in her system, per ABC News. Knope7 (talk) 02:02, 17 September 2016 (UTC).

she was given permission (in secret until it was leaked by hackers) to take substances that have resulted in bans for other athletes, due to adhd no less( see wikipedia article on adhd, other sources with even better scientific credibility,to see absurdity of this). only racist pro usa bias can explain non mention of that in the article. shame on wikipedia and its racist editors!
 * It's actually perfectly normal and common for atheletes to be granted permission to take certain otherwise unpermitted medications when they are needed to treat medical conditions. It's called Therapeutic Use Exemption and to call it doping is intentionally misleading.  To call Wikipedia editors racist because of this issue is just plain stupid.  Deli nk (talk) 10:05, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * In artistic gymnastics Ritalin is a clear competitive advantage. It possibly doesn't matter at long distance running, but in artistic gymnastics it does. It is doping. It improves concentration and coordination. If you compare that incidence with the doping case of Yuliya Yefimova (unintentional usage of DHEA - similar to LaShawn Merritt: DHEA can be bought in USA without any prescription (even at Amazon.com), a doping effect for athlets has never been proved) and the boos and jeers Yefimova received from Lilly King and the press, it is a bit shocking. Nobody who is on Ritalin should be allowed to participate in artistic gymnastics at Olympic Games. It is a matter of fairness. A Therapeutic Use Exemption for Ritalin in artistic gymnastics is nothing else than a license to dope. --Lorenzondo (talk) 10:12, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
 * You are entitled to your opinion. That said, in order to characterize the use of prescribed medication, that was approved in advance, as "doping" would be a violation of several policies and guidelines on Wikipedia, unless you can find reliable sources to back up this claim. Because making such a claim would be controversial, I would suggest discussing any such sources here before adding them to the article. Please ping upon any reply due to watchlist overload. Etamni &#124; &#9993; &#124; ✓ 08:37, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

@Etamni : like someone wrote on WADA, USA play well, but not fair. As mentioned here whether she need that in sport that also means abuse of performance-enhancing drugs. Was is state-sponsored or not, we know sport is money. Who follow sport, can easy say there is much more "ill persons" than in normal population, which needs some kind off medicals. Strange ?! Well, Lance Armstrong was also State-of-art cycler...till that day on Oprah show. Dr. Fuentes case in known in cycling very well. We have now case of, due to my comment that she is doped, new admin which is participating there few months gave me block (was he from USA or nor i dont know). Anyone blocked people who said Lance is doped - before Oprah show ? That was 10 year time. We now see Simone is taking something which increase capabilities. Allowed or nor its not Clean sport. --PetarM (talk) 08:32, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

The article should not state that Biles was Doping or involved in a doping acandal and can state explicitly that she didin't dope or cheat. Nevertheless it should mention the controversy and that (some) expert consider Ritalin an "unfair" advantage. As sources for that see for instance:
 * http://abcnews.go.com/Health/simone-biles-adhd-meds-common-drugs-banned-olympics/story?id=42081189
 * http://www.houstonchronicle.com/olympics/article/Simone-Biles-Olympic-drug-testing-records-hacked-9220797.php
 * http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/doping-wie-sich-us-sportler-zugang-zu-verbotenen-medikamenten-verschaffen-a-1123934.html (German)
 * http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/warum-sind-so-viele-spitzensportler-asthmatiker-a-1119070.html (German)
 * http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/hack-by-fancy-bears-of-anti-doping-agency-usada-a-1124020.html

Also note, that this is about encyclopedic relevance and not about "fair", "unfair" or moral assessments by Wikipedians. --Kmhkmh (talk) 16:15, 2 January 2017 (UTC) Contraversy sections are disfavored and the current heading gives an inaccurate impression of Biles' approved use of medication. The content should be integratd without the inflamatory heading. Knope7 (talk) 23:13, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Height
Team USA says 4 ft 8 in. Whatever number we use, should have a reliable source.
 * Her FIG license says she is 4'9" and current pictures (2018), she looks to be the same height as Morgan Hurd who is reported to be 4'10". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8805:4800:6100:a5de:178:bb82:98f2 (talk) 03:22, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Dancing with the stars
Why isn’t her participation in this prominent TV show mentioned? Also there was some controversy about her having been eliminated when she had perfect scores Skysong263 (talk) 05:43, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah I agree, there should be a Dancing With The Stars section like on Aly Raisman. I'm not too familiar with the show or where we could find references, especially for the performances table. The controversy you mentioned can be added too as long as there are reliable sources. -Riley1012 (talk) 14:22, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

University of the People Status, Disputed?
Reputable sources on this point:


 * VOA: https://www.voanews.com/student-union/olympic-gymnast-simone-biles-takes-new-role-college-student
 * Today: https://www.today.com/news/simone-biles-speaks-out-about-nassar-verdict-judge-hoda-kotb-t122045
 * CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/31/us/simone-biles-gymnast-nassar/index.html
 * Houston Chronicle: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/olympics/article/Simone-Biles-ready-to-speak-to-investigators-12541069.php
 * Black Enterprise: https://www.blackenterprise.com/601608-2/
 * CTV News: https://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/simone-biles-waiting-to-hear-from-usoc-about-sexual-abuse-1.3784347

This does not meet the criteria of disputed status. The "dispute" was raised by three IP editors and the editor who added the tag. The three IPs all geolocate back to the same country, only edited the University of the People page and talk page, and made negative edits directed at the university.


 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/37.160.115.124
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/37.160.62.222
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/37.160.22.166

There needs to be more to call this a "disputed" statement. SimoneBilesStan (talk) 16:23, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Fake news. Simone Biles is not a student at "University of the People". Those sponsored articles are not a proof. However, if you show an official document stating that Simone Biles is a student there, you can remove the tag. The same request was already made three years ago, but none of you guys showed any documents legally proving your claims. Simone Biles' website does not mention this "University of the People" at all in her bio. The more years go by, the more your ads look like a WP:HOAX. —Mᵒdᵘlᵃtᵒ.&#128233; 10:55, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
 * There are no reputable sources which dispute that she is a student. There are only disputes by three IP editors and yourself. A reputable source would label sponsored articles as sponsored. None of the reputable sources provided labeled the articles as sponsored. No evidence has been provided otherwise. Official documentation is not required. Verifiability is. Reputable news sources qualify as verifiability. Several reputable news sources without any taking a different or contrary stance is super verifiability. I am not part of "you guys." The counter that the Simone Biles website does not mention University of the People in her bio is an argument from silence. If there is a reputable source which demonstrates that Simone Biles is not a student or was never a student or is even skeptical that she was a student at University of the People, produce it. Otherwise, you have no grounds to continue this line of editing. SimoneBilesStan (talk) 13:21, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
 * You should read https://www.simonebiles.com/bio and her book "Courage to sour". Please quit insulting our intelligence. Goodbye. —Mᵒdᵘlᵃtᵒ.&#128233; 13:50, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
 * This is a non sequitur. Please provide a reputable source which disputes the claims of the articles above. If you cannot, then the disputed tags need to be removed. SimoneBilesStan (talk) 14:12, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I want to extend my point. The argument that her bio makes no mention of the university and so it is disputable that she attended/attends the university is an argument from silence. We cannot draw a conclusion based on the bio's silence. The argument that her book makes no mention would also be an argument from silence, but there is also a temporal issue for that argument. The book was published in November 2016. She started attending University of the People in early 2018. This means we are still left with the same problem. Who is disputing that she attended the university? I can only find Modulato and three IP editors. These are not reputable, reliable sources. I recommend the dispute tags be removed until a reputable source disputing her attendance can be provided. SimoneBilesStan (talk) 01:06, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The same organization claimed to have built "computer centers" in Haiti etc. and even uploaded a fake picture to Commons (actually, the current picture in its Wikipedia article is fake too, but at least it doesn't insult people): alas, other websites and "reputable sources" were also paid to spread the word, for example https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/25/education/25future_people.html Tipical UoPeople.edu false news story: there have never been any "University of the People computer centers" in Haiti. As for Simone Biles, you guys were invited to provide proof three years ago, but we haven't seen anything yet. There is no need to go on because the issue has already been discussed. —Mᵒdᵘlᵃtᵒ.&#128233; 06:04, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I am not a part of "you guys" again. There is no evidence that the offered articles are sponsored by the university. You keep suggesting, claiming, and hinting at the idea, but you offer no evidence. And as I have already pointed out, such a claim makes absolutely no sense. Provide evidence that the offered articles are sponsored or evidence that a dispute in reputable sources exists about Biles student status at the university. If you cannot, this is nothing more than handwaving. SimoneBilesStan (talk) 13:19, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
 * You are a brand-new SPA that has only written about UoPeople.edu; since we already had plenty of SPAs, just like you, sometimes paid and sometimes not paid by UoPeople.edu, I see no harm in calling you guys "you guys". That being said, I have nothing to "provide" simply because that stuff doesn't exist. It is completely made up, and the problem began ten years ago (New York Times, sponsored and invented story about UoPeople.edu, see the link). If you claim, through CNN, NYT or whatever, that your life on Mars together with a group of Martians is wonderful, and I respond it is not true you live on Mars, I don't have to "offer" any "evidence", simply because there is no evidence, for me let alone for you, and I am not "claiming" anything (it is you who are claiming). We are not idiots: if a "reputable source" publishes a blatantly false article, it doesn't mean that piece of fake news is true and should be disseminated everywhere. Also, fake pictures uploaded here by UoPeople.edu, just like the one in the article, are even more ridiculous. Last but not least, your CNN article says "she finds time [in 2018] to take an education strategies class through the online school University of the People"; this vague statement might be true, but nobody really knows if Simone Biles left UCLA and is now a student at UoPeople.edu, unless you provide a certificate issued by https://nscverifications.org or by UCLA, in which case I will immediately add this piece of information. —Mᵒdᵘlᵃtᵒ.&#128233; 17:13, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I am not "you guys" for the third time. I am not sure what you find vague about the CNN statement. The statement in the Wikipedia article which you are disputing is "Biles was reported to have enrolled at the University of the People." CNN is a reputable source, and the CNN article supports that claim. The other reputable sources support that claim as well.
 * VOA (Feb 2018): "The University of the People, a nonprofit, tuition-free online university, seems to be a better fit. Biles has become a global ambassador for the 9-year-old institution and is pursuing a bachelor’s degree in Business Administration."
 * Today (Jan 2018): "In addition to training, Simone is about to start working on her college degree through the University of the People, a non-profit institution for which she is a spokeswoman."
 * Houston Chronicle (Jan 2018): "Biles also has enrolled at University of the People, an online school based in Pasadena, Calif., and will serve as an unpaid "global ambassador" for the school, which features her photo on its website."
 * Black Enterprise (Jan 2018): "Simone Biles, American gymnast and Olympic champion, began her college education at the tuition-free University of the People (UoPeople) earlier this month."
 * CTV News/AP (Jan 2018): "The 20-year-old Biles also plans to study business online, through the tuition-free University of the People, where there's a scholarship in her name devoted to foster children."
 * Washington Informer (Feb 2018): "American gymnast and Olympic gold medalist Simone Biles recently began her new journey as a college student at the University of the People and she wants to help other foster children such as herself follow the same path."
 * The weight of the evidence supports the statement in the article. It was reported that she enrolled at University of the People. Your counterclaim that these articles are "sponsored articles" does not hold weight for reasons already given. Last of all, I cannot provide a certificate from NSC. I cannot do so because it would be original research. Original research violates Wikipedia policy. We must work within the policies of Wikipedia. This requires reputable sources which can be used to verify the claims of the article. We have that. SimoneBilesStan (talk) 20:58, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
 * (here from WP:3O) May I ask what you find so implausible about the idea that Simone Biles attends / attended this school? Specifically referring to how you call it blatantly false and compare it to attending school on Mars. fake pictures uploaded here Would you suggest that the main image of https://simonebiles.uopeople.edu/ which appears to be Simone Biles wearing a UOPeople shirt, is actually... photoshopped? What about this video (from that same page): ? Leijurv (talk) 00:17, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The fake pictures were removed from Commons a few years ago (they had nothing to do with Simone Biles); however, the picture in University of the People is still photoshopped, although it's innocuous. More specifically, the fake pictures claimed that UoPeople.edu built some "computer centers" in Haiti after the terrible earthquake. Fake news. The aforementioned NYT article https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/25/education/25future_people.html still has one of those pictures; "reputable source", but fake (and most likely paid) story. As for the YT video, it's not fake: it's just an ad. We don't know if Biles was paid or not to shoot the commercial, but this is not relevant. In this article, the only hypothetically relevant point is "Simone Biles left UCLA to become a student at UoPeople.edu": since journalists don't really know if it's true or not, a certificate issued by UCLA or the NSC (which is not an "original research", LOL) can confirm or refute that. In my opinion, this stuff should be removed altogether: usual spam from UoPeople.edu. —Mᵒdᵘlᵃtᵒ.&#128233; 10:42, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * the picture in University of the People is still photoshopped Might you clarify which specifically? And why you conclude it's photoshopped? The only one I see looks... fine. About this computer center in Haiti thing, perhaps you could add some sourced statements to University of the People explaining this fraud? I see your link but to my eyes I don't see any clear evidence of tampering in the image. On the one hand, I consider WP:LINKSINACHAIN which would suggest that if sites like CNN are just republishing a PR statement that Biles is attending this school, that lends no additional credence to the idea. But that is an "if", it needs some kind of evidence, such as a conflicting source. (or, at least, a WP:RS stating that UoPeople is fraudulent). On the other hand, I consider WP:RGW: you'll have to wait until it's been reported in mainstream media or published in books from reputable publishing houses. Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought or original research. Wikipedia doesn't lead; we follow. Let reliable sources make the novel connections and statements. What we do is find neutral ways of presenting them. It comes across to me like you are convinced that UoPeople is fraudulent. And, to be honest, I wouldn't have much difficulty agreeing with you; just looking at Talk:University of the People I see COI editors all over the place. So I really do lean towards agreeing, but some kind of evidence is required, per WP:RGW WP:VNT and WP:NOR. Leijurv (talk) 20:18, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Sure: look at that picture, and now look at this background: https://i.ibb.co/WGm0219/fake-gray-wall.png It's the "wall" they used for that photomontage. By the way, this is not even a real wall, but a smaller gray virtual background copy-pasted several times: it's a pattern, if you look closely. But at least the two composite faces are real; unfortunately, Commons used to have random pictures, including random people, downloaded from the Internet (just like that background, after all) and UoPeople claimed them to be "UoPeople computer centers in Haiti". I mean, why do these spammers still have no respect for other people's intelligence? As for "UoPeople university" in general, we are OT here, but I can recommend this website https://www.uopeople.review and everyone can draw their own conclusions. —Mᵒdᵘlᵃtᵒ.&#128233; 15:00, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I see no repeating background in File:UoPeople_President_Shai_Reshef_and_UoPeople_Provost_David_Cohen.jpg. Leijurv (talk) 21:58, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
 * You are correct. I did some comparisons. This is an animated overlay. If you look closely above the bald man's head, there is a "owl eye" feature in the bricks. I had to rotate the Reshef/Cohen image three degrees left to match them up, but the wall behind the two people is not repeating like the "fake gray wall" image. Also, the "gray wall" image has a straight brick line. This is important when creating repeating images because if the brick line rises or falls you would end up with the line starting higher or lower than the line on each repeat. If you look at the original image, you'll see the brick line actually slopes downward from left to right. I suspect the "fake gray wall" is actually a fake image which uses the Reshef/Cohen image as source material. SimoneBilesStan (talk) 23:49, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
 * A wall cannot "slope downward from left to right": the bricks should be placed horizontally. Therefore, the picture is a photomontage, and more specifically the background was 1. downloaded from the Internet, 2. cropped, 3. scaled up, 4. rotated by about 20-30°. Sorry for my late reply but I don't have this page on my watch-list. —Mᵒdᵘlᵃtᵒ.&#128233; 17:45, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Perhaps the camera was at a bit of an angle? Leijurv (talk) 19:55, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I found out what's going on. I found this page on the website. The repeating pattern is there, but there is an original image as well. If you look closely at the image, the repeating pattern starts about 50 pixels off each shoulder. What they've done is taken that width from the shoulder to the edge of the "original" image. Those portions of the "original" image are used to create a repeating pattern. This allows a long, narrow image to serve as a banner on the website. I was looking forward to a conspiracy theory, but it seems we're just the victims of bad graphic design. SimoneBilesStan (talk) 01:11, 2 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Hey all, here from WP:3O (I hope this is not a problem, having a forth opinion). can you pls provide evidence that text from cnn and other media is sponsored as you have claimed? Also, it seems that the sentence "Those sponsored articles are not a proof. However, if you show an official document stating that Simone Biles is a student there, you can remove the tag"  is being addressed at this essay---> Verifiability, not truth Cinadon36 10:54, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Would the use of official documents as a source violate WP:BLPPRIMARY? SimoneBilesStan (talk) 23:00, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * That essay actually includes statements such as "reliable sources are not infallible", "publication in a reliable source is not sufficient to establish that a view is significant" or "reliable sources may express speculation" etc. For example, I wonder why UoPeople.edu should be so important in this Wikipedia article about Simone Biles: from past experience, it's spam from UoPeople.edu, but it may also be "undue weight" or whatever. As for the ads (oops, "articles", I'm sorry), UoPeople.edu PR office, in Israel, managed by Sarah Vanunu, uses services such as PRWeb.com and many more to spread their stories in the US, regardless if they are true. Then the articles reach websites such as NYT, Forbes etc. That said, I don't have an "invoice", if this is what you meant. —Mᵒdᵘlᵃtᵒ.&#128233; 11:20, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Being WP:UNDUE is another argument, irrelevant to the dispute-tag, but are you moving the goalpost? CNN might be (or not) a dishonest site, but it has the reputation of a reliable one. Have a look here Reliable sources/Perennial sources. Cinadon36 11:47, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I commented on the CNN article earlier. It just says "she finds time [in 2018] to take an education strategies class through the online school University of the People", that's it. Why a person should infer that Simone Biles left UCLA and is now a student at UoPeople.edu remains a mystery. —Mᵒdᵘlᵃtᵒ.&#128233; 11:58, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * We don't have to infer that she did not attend UCLA from the CNN article. It is stated by Biles herself in the interview included on the VOA article. She states, "I was committed to UCLA before I went to the Olympics. And unfortunately I decided... I deferred. And then I didn't go because after the Olympics things got crazy." The CNN article supports the statement "Biles was reported to have enrolled at the University of the People." It is not used to support the statement "Biles did not attend UCLA." SimoneBilesStan (talk) 13:28, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "stan" or not, if you know her well enough to call her by her surname without her permission, you have a COI. Otherwise, she's "Biles" or "Ms. Biles."  I'm a woman with professional accomplishments and I expressly refuse to allow employers, publishers, or seminar proprietors to call me (obviously these aren't my real names) "Juliet" versus "Ms. Lima". Please give Ms. Biles that courtesy. Thanks. -  Julietdeltalima   (talk)  17:38, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Isn't "Biles" the surname, and "Simone" the given name? Did you mean to write if you know her well enough to call her by her given name without her permission, you have a COI or am I confused? Leijurv (talk) 20:18, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Change made. SimoneBilesStan (talk) 23:03, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * UoPeople.edu spammers never accept the concept of "COI". I've been following artistic gymnastics for over 30 years and this is the first time I've seen a person that wants to emphasize if a gymnast signed up for a website (or not). —Mᵒdᵘlᵃtᵒ.&#128233; 15:00, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I suggest you reread the CNN article that you added to this Wikipedia article yourself, because it does not say that Biles was reported to have enrolled at UoPeople.edu, nor does it "support" that. It says "she finds time [in 2018] to take an education strategies class through the online school University of the People", which nobody cares about (apart from UoPeople.edu spammers). Also, if you attend UCLA, you don't attend UoPeople.edu, and if you attend UoPeople.edu, you don't attend UCLA: make up your mind. —Mᵒdᵘlᵃtᵒ.&#128233; 17:27, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * What is your published Wikipedia-competent authority for that syllogism? A person is literally physically, cosmologically incapable of doing these two things at once? I'm perceiving that you take the position that "in my view, no one would possibly ever do these two things at the same time, so it must be false." Fascinating. Unencyclopedic. Does anything prohibit a person from doing those two things at once?  What am I missing? -  Julietdeltalima   (talk)  17:32, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * As I wrote up here, does anything "prohibit" (using your own words) a person from also living on Mars together with plenty of Martians? Especially considering that no evidence is provided to support the claim, I remain skeptical, and I'm not the only one: https://www.uopeople.review/simone-biles By the way, out of curiosity, would you give me an example of a Wikipedia article about a person who is attending two colleges or universities at the same time? —Mᵒdᵘlᵃtᵒ.&#128233; 03:27, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
 * How did you find this website? I ask because the domain was registered just yesterday (June 30, 2021). It is not yet indexed by Google, Bing, Ask, DuckDuckGo, Qwant, Yandex, or Baidu. SimoneBilesStan (talk) 14:37, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
 * It used to have a different domain, which now redirects to uopeople.review. But I don't see what domains and search engines have to do with this discussion, honestly. —Mᵒdᵘlᵃtᵒ.&#128233; 17:22, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * My response is lengthy, so I will share it below. SimoneBilesStan (talk) 01:41, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Taking a class at a school directly implies that one is enrolled at the school. Also, the Houston Chronicle source is even more direct on this point. It states, "Biles also has enrolled at University of the People." I simply cannot see how your position can be maintained. Ms. Lima's point about the two schools at once is accurate. It is possible for a student to attend more than one school at the same time. That point is also not really relevant though. Biles stated in the VOA interview video that she did not attend UCLA. Her exact words were "I was committed to UCLA before I went to the Olympics. And unfortunately I decided... I deferred. And then I didn't go because after the Olympics things got crazy." She never went to UCLA by her own admission. SimoneBilesStan (talk) 22:55, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * You started to fight to add a CNN article; you added it and removed a tag, and I let you do it. My replies were about the article that you added yourself. Now you abandon CNN to change article? By the way, your spam "directly implies" that I'm fed up. Goodbye forever. —Mᵒdᵘlᵃtᵒ.&#128233; 03:27, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

❌

I suggest we review the implication that the person behind uopeople.review is another person first.

uopeople.review was registered on June 30, 2021. You posted the site on July 1, 2021. This is not enough time for search engines to discover and index a website. This is why my searches came back empty on July 1, 2021. I made the effort to archive the search results so that a timestamp could be attached as verification.


 * Google
 * Bing
 * Ask
 * DuckDuckGo
 * Qwant
 * Yandex
 * Baidu

This demonstrates that it was not possible to find the website through a search engine on July 1, 2021, and you would need to find the website through some other means.

You claim that the website used to exist on a different domain and that the other domain redirects to uopeople.review.

A person experienced with redirected old websites can tell you that the old domain will remain in the search engine results for months. This means we should be able to find some remnants of the old domain in the search engines. We can test this by taking a random sample of sentences or phrases from uopeople.review and searching for them with quotes on each end.

I performed this test with several quotes. Most of them reviewed no results beyond uopeople.review. This means the old domain existed quite some time ago or you found it by some other means.

I purposely said "most of them." I did managed to find one sentence taken from a student review on uopeople.review. The sentence was "I am currently in the process of attending another school, which needs all the transcripts, whether they take credits or not." Google found that exact statement on a Turkish web forum.


 * ProZ.com

The sixth post on that page was posted on March 4, 2019. It contains an article titled, "The incredible fraud of University of the People aka UoPeople: the scam offering fake 'free' degrees online". The source for the article was evidence-based.review, but it seems the website is dead and the domain does not redirect.


 * evidence-based.review/university-people-forum-review-uopeople-accreditation-6251755280.html Evidence-based.review

It seems we are at a dead end until we start comparing the article with the uopeople.review website. I will use e for evidence-based.review and u for uopeople.review.

Office
 * e: They just have a PO box — aka "virtual office" — in America and claim it to be their "administrative office".
 * u: You will find a PO box in a shared office instead, which they rent from ... and which you can rent yourself — yes, you can get UoPeople's address too.

Phone Number
 * e: The only phone number they advertise is actually a rented virtual number: there are no US landlines (or mobile phone lines) whatsoever. Try to phone them: who will answer the phone? Nobody. Or, to be exact, an answering machine.
 * u: And if you try to phone them, things don't get better: it is just a dummy voicemail service running on a virtual phone number, and they have no real US landlines (or mobile phone lines) whatsoever.

Tuition and Fees
 * e: instead of using the word "tuition", they prefer the expression "exam fees", which you will have to pay anyway.
 * u: University of the People claims this is not tuition but "administrative fees" — or occasionally "assessment fees" even if there is nothing to assess.

Computer Center in Haiti
 * e: this fake news appeared in UoPeople's sponsored articles just after the terrible earthquake in Haiti a few years ago, together with a fake picture created by UoPeople reps claiming that they were helping people in Haiti.
 * u: However, there are no "UoPeople computer centers" in Haiti. University of the People should be ashamed of spreading fake news like this, because many Haitians died during that terrible earthquake and this Israeli diploma mill has no respect for them.

United Nations
 * e: The United Nations and its agencies do not have any partnerships with University of the People, nor is University of the People affiliated with them.
 * u: The reality is the United Nations and its agencies do not have any partnerships with University of the People, nor is University of the People affiliated with them.

Mobile Apps
 * e: University of the People (UoPeople) developed a mobile app for iOS and Android to help poor people who can only access the Internet through slow connections
 * u: UoPeople claims to have developed a mobile app for iOS and Android to help poor people who can only access the Internet through slow connections.

Academic Partnerships
 * e: University of the People works with Yale, Harvard, Berkeley, Stanford, MIT, Columbia University, New York University, Oxford University (UK) etc.
 * u: Fake partnerships with Yale, Harvard, Berkeley, Stanford, MIT, Columbia University, New York University, Oxford University (UK) etc.

Graduation Ceremony
 * e: at UoPeople there is no such thing as "graduation ceremony". After you pay all the fees, you will get your piece of paper by mail. Basically, it works just like a diploma mill.
 * u: Actually, at UoPeople there is no such thing as a real graduation ceremony. Being a diploma mill, you will get your piece of paper by mail after you pay all the fees, that's it.

MBA Accreditation
 * e: the MBA is not accredited by any business school accreditation bodies (e.g. AACSB, AMBA, EQUIS).
 * u: There exist four important accrediting agencies for MBA programs: the Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB, chiefly American), the Association of MBAs (AMBA, chiefly British), the Accreditation Council for Business Schools and Programs (ACBSP, chiefly American), and the EFMD Quality Improvement System (EQUIS, chiefly European)

Simone Biles
 * e: In other words, it is a typical advertising — and misleading — campaign, where Biles acts as a "spokeswoman" or "global ambassador". As usual, it is unclear if the advertised scholarships actually exist.
 * u: In many press releases and YouTube videos, University of the People still claims Simone Biles to be a "global ambassador and spokeswoman" for the organization, so why should it be "private" or "blocked"? The whole affair is very strange and obscure: total lack of transparency.

The two sources cover the same topics and often use the same or very similar wording. I think a reasonable conclusion to draw from this is that the two sources were written by the same author who is simply recycling material.

We can also perform an analysis of the language from those two sources with your own language use on this talk page. I will add m for Modulato.

Fake, Fake, Fake!
 * m: "Fake news.", "fake pictures uploaded here", "it doesn't mean that piece of fake news is true"
 * e: "fake 'free' degrees online", "this fake "MBA" will be completely useless", "the invented scholarships are just fake ads"
 * u: Her main goal was to spread fake news about UoPeople all over the Internet and make sure nobody mentioned "Israel".

UoPeople.edu
 * m: fake pictures uploaded here by UoPeople.edu
 * u: UoPeople.edu has been bombarding Wikipedia with ads

Our Intelligence, Please!
 * m: Please quit insulting our intelligence.
 * e: That statement insults everyone's intelligence.
 * u: University of the People still claims — in 2021 — that Simone Biles is a freshman at UoPeople, which insults our intelligence.

Haiti Earthquake
 * m: More specifically, the fake pictures claimed that UoPeople.edu built some "computer centers" in Haiti after the terrible earthquake.
 * e: this fake news appeared in UoPeople's sponsored articles just after the terrible earthquake in Haiti
 * u: After the catastriphic earthquake in Haiti in 2010, "University of the People" claimed to have built several "computer centers" for the earthquake victims.

Haiti Images
 * m: claimed to have built "computer centers" in Haiti etc. and even uploaded a fake picture to Commons
 * e: together with a fake picture created by UoPeople reps claiming that they were helping people in Haiti.
 * u: UoPeople PR office in Israel even paid nytimes.com to publish a fake story, with a fake (stolen) picture, about the alleged "UoPeople computer centers" in Haiti.

Sponsored Articles
 * m: Those sponsored articles are not a proof.
 * e: they come across sponsored articles claiming that "a tuition-free university is giving lots of scholarships";
 * u: they come across sponsored clickbait articles claiming that "a great tuition-free university is giving lots of scholarships";

The implication that uopeople.review is another person is clearly false. uopeople.review is your own website. As you have said yourself, "Please quit insulting our intelligence."

I want to also add that uopeople.review does not meet the criteria for a reputable source. SimoneBilesStan (talk) 01:41, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Firstly, you are off-topic. Last but not least, AFAIK that website is not used as a "source" on wikipedia.org, so nobody cares. —Mᵒdᵘlᵃtᵒ.&#128233; 02:53, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

"the greatest and most dominant female gymnast of all time"
This statement is sourced solely to American sources and there are 22 women with more Olympic medals than Biles. Don't think this massive hyperbole belongs in the opening sentences.


 * I've undone the responsible edit. Leijurv (talk) 19:35, 15 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Maybe greatest and most dominant American female gymnast would be reasonable?Jackattack1597 (talk) 16:36, 27 July 2021 (UTC)


 * It might not be off to use "'wanted to be' the greatest and most dominant American female gymnast" after he performance in Japan. What happened at the Olympics showed major weakness and failure.2405:9800:BA00:4199:5D91:809:CCD3:6CF5 (talk) 23:53, 28 July 2021 (UTC)


 * It seems like this issue of “is regarded as” has gotten worse lately on WP in general. Instead of thinking about which statements seem reasonable to us, I think the question is which statements we can support with reliable sources. Larry Hockett (Talk) 18:57, 27 July 2021 (UTC)


 * To be sure, this is only her second Olympics - which haven't even completed yet. I think the table at List of top female medalists at major artistic gymnastics events is a more neutral justification for such a statement. Hoof Hearted (talk) 15:28, 28 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Tables aren't relevant to the question of whether reliable sources regard her as the greatest and most dominant. Larry Hockett (Talk) 15:43, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 July 2021
Simone Biles has combine total of 31 Olympic and world championship medals 69.160.182.64 (talk) 21:08, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅. ◢  Ganbaruby!   (talk) 22:13, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:53, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Simone Biles at the 2020 Summer Olympics.jpg

"Biles' seven Olympic medals also ties Shannon Miller for the most Olympic medals won by an American female gymnast"
There is no reason to specify "female" in this sentence. Shannon Miller and Simone Biles are the most decorated American gymnasts, no gender distinction needs to be made. https://www.npr.org/2019/10/13/769896721/simone-biles-becomes-the-most-decorated-gymnast-in-world-championship-history https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/sports/olympics/simone-biles-medal-count.html --Jderang02 (talk) 03:39, 30 November 2021 (UTC)Jderang02


 * ✅. Great catch, thanks. Firefangledfeathers 03:46, 30 November 2021 (UTC)