Talk:Simone Moro/Archive 1

advert?
This reads a bit like a self-advertisement (No neutral point of view). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.235.63.248 (talk) 19:08, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Winter ascents
Simone Moro was not the first man who climbed three 8-thousanders. Krzysztof Wielicki did that in the 80s (February 17, 1980 Mount Everest, January 11, 1986 Kangczendzonga, December 31, 1988 Lhotse).

86.86.37.61 (talk) 09:35, 23 June 2013 (UTC)Tom
 * Hi, the lead section says he made "three first winter ascents" ("first" because those winter ascents were "first winter ascents"). It does not say he is the first man who climbed three 8-thousanders (in winter). Or are you talking about something else? --Rotpunkt (talk) 12:54, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

slander?
I've just deleted:
 * Together with another Italian Silvio Mondinelli was negative protagonist scandal with getting Crown of the Himalayas. It turned out that the entrance to Lhotse in 1994, is a lie. Entering at the same time Ryszard Pawłowski said that they turned back from the ridge about 150 meters below the summit. Lhotse Moro attacked again in 1997, this time going longer on top. 

Why? Because (a) it's not clear what exactly is being said; (b) it does seem to be about a scandal and a "Crown of the Himalayas" - neither of which are obvious; and (c) a negative comment like this, particularly about a living person, needs some citation or reference. Snori (talk) 00:17, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree, it's not related to the "Crown of the Himalayas", it was his first eight-thousander. What's more, negative comments like this need many sources, otherwise it's not a neutral point of view. --Rotpunkt (talk) 09:39, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * What I found online is:
 * planetmountain.com: << Lhotse is a sort of deja vu for Mondinelli who, in 1994 together with Simone Moro, got to within 30m of the summit >>
 * mounteverest.net: << Simone Moro’s first big success - but still no summit - was the 8516m climb up Lhotse in 1994, which took him only 17 hours, leaving from 6330m. Unfortunately, weather forced him to turn back only meters from the summit. >>
 * bergfieber.de: << 1994 - 11 Oktober: Lhotse, schneller Aufstieg ab 6300m in 17 Stunden! Abbruch wenige Meter unterhalb des Gipfels, da Schlechtwetter und große Wächten den weiteren Aufstieg zu gefährlich gemacht hätten. >> in English: << October 11: Lhotse, rapid ascent from 6300m in 17 hours! Stopped few meters below the summit because of bad weather and large cornices would have made the further ascent too dangerous. >>
 * --Rotpunkt (talk) 09:51, 19 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Events confirmed by the Ryszard Pawlowski, Elizabeth Hawley and the Nepalese Ministry of Culture Tourism and Civil Aviation. I see no reason to hide it. Germania Breslau (talk) 12:02, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Germania Breslau, please write here "where" and "what" Ryszard Pawlowski, lizabeth Hawley and the Nepalese Ministry of Culture Tourism and Civil Aviation have confirmed. I have already added three sources, and neither of them says this. --Rotpunkt (talk) 12:09, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * http://ksiegarnia.wspinanie.pl/ryszard-pawlowski-40-lat-w-gorach-wywiad-rzeka-p-462.html
 * http://i.imgur.com/vdgD8cHl.jpg
 * http://i.imgur.com/xZz9t7Sl.jpg
 * — Preceding unsigned comment added by Germania Breslau (talk • contribs) 12:12, 20 July 2014‎
 * Could you write down here the phrase(s) you are referring to (in polish, exactly as it is in the book), so we can translate it with a translator? --Rotpunkt (talk) 12:17, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
 * @Germania Breslau A few minutes ago you have re-added this negative comment on all wikis, and this is absolutely wrong, because there is a discussion here and you have been [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AGermania_Breslau&diff=617577800&oldid=617569589 warned] only yesterday. --Rotpunkt (talk) 13:23, 20 July 2014 (UTC)


 * There is no error. Moro and Mondinelli not won in 1994 Lhotse. Not included on the list of winners, not received from the Nepalese Ministry certificate confirming entry. It is an eyewitness who saw that did not enter the top.
 * The source is given.
 * I would add that other Italian climbers are also known for such of lies while climbing on the eight-thousanders. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Germania Breslau (talk • contribs) 15:38, 20 July 2014‎
 * Instead you will you will be blocked very soon. --Rotpunkt (talk) 13:44, 20 July 2014 (UTC)


 * It is now on the English wiki blocks for the truth? it congratulate Germania Breslau (talk) 14:41, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
 * No, you missed the point: you are using the considerations written in 1 book (and you have not even collaborated to write down here the sentences) as the official version, while all other sources (planetmountain.com, mounteverest.net, bergfieber.de) are only saying that Moro didn't reach the summit, without mentioning any lies. You abandoned the discussion and added your truth to all wikipedias. The websites themselves of Moro and Mondinelli don't report the Lhotse summit in 1994: the Moro's website says "The way was finished some meters below the summit due to bad weather and snow drifts" and the Mondinelli's website says: "il maltempo gli impedirà di raggiungere la cima più alta", in english: "bad weather will prevent him from reaching the highest peak." --Rotpunkt (talk) 15:05, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I have just rollbacked [//tools.wmflabs.org/guc/?user=78.9.154.33 another attempt] of spamming this negative comment in all wikipedias. --Rotpunkt (talk) 09:55, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Another attempt from 78.8.14.84. This time, at least, we can translate what the book is saying. The book says Moro and Mondinelli lied about having reached the summit of Lhotse. This is a serious charge and it is in contrast with other sources:
 * the websites themselves of Moro and Mondinelli don't report the Lhotse summit in 1994 ("The way was finished some meters below the summit due to bad weather and snow drifts", "il maltempo gli impedirà di raggiungere la cima più alta", in english: "bad weather will prevent him from reaching the highest peak.").
 * planetmountain.com, mounteverest.net, bergfieber.de say Moro didn't reach the summit, without mentioning any lies.
 * Another difference between the book and the other sources is that all other sources refer to "few meters below the summit" not 150 meters.
 * So the theory of the book can't be accepted without other sources. By now, all other sources are saying that there was no lie and Moro and Mondinelli websites refer to "few meters below the summit". @Germania Breslau: What is needed is some sources that say that there has been a lie and then an "admission" from Moro and Mondinelli about the summit. In this case it's ok for me creating a section like "Lhotse controversy". --Rotpunkt (talk) 10:48, 21 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Are you are naive and do not know how to think for themselves? First, they announced that they entered the top. I did not mention that he was an overhang, which did not allow them to enter the top, on which other climbers fall. As it turned out, that is a witness who knows from where they have turned around and said that it was not the peak of a sudden they started to invent something about some nawisie who stopped them 30 meters below the summit. That's what they later claimed that they returned 30 meters below the summit. Sorry but I do not have any photos of the place, nor was there any other evidence that they were at the top, or that they were even 30 meters below the summit. Even if they were 30 feet below also does not disqualify them as conquerors. So here the matter is clear. Summit did not win. It was not them the certificate, which receive all the winners. It should also be noted that climbers talking about 30 or 150 meters, do not talk about the real distance from the apex height of only just dividing their peak. Sometimes 30 m below the top of a real distance is 1 km and takes 1-2 hours walking, for example, Broad Peak. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.8.159.153 (talk • contribs) 19:04, 21 July 2014‎
 * The fact that they had not reached the summit is written in their website, so there is no lie. Can you prove that they changed their version of the facts? When exactly and how? in a press conference? I am looking for it in magazines and books but I haven't found anything. --Rotpunkt (talk) 19:32, 21 July 2014 (UTC)


 * With the help of a translator recommend you read a passage from the book. There is all very well described. It is obvious that changed their testimony, depending on the situation and the facts disclosed. It is essential that this climber has to prove that he was at the top. That is why virtually every long time takes a picture at the top. A common practice is also leaving at the top of their memorabilia and / or removal of souvenirs left by others. It is also proof of the presence provides at the top. Italians nor did any pictures, nothing left, nothing abolished, nobody saw them at the top, or in its vicinity.

"Jak wyglądała wyprawa na Lhotse w 1994 roku ?	Odbyła się jesienią, czyli już po mojej wiosennej wyprawie na Everest. W sezonie pomonsunowym skuteczność na takich szczytach jak Everest, Lhotse, Makalu i Kangczendzonga jest znikoma, wieją wtedy silne wiatry. Pod Lhotse zebrała się wówczas międzynarodowa ekipa. W zespole, któremu liderowałem byli Szkoci i Niemcy, ale wszyscy stopniowo odpuszczali. W tym czasie szczyt zdobył tylko doborowy zespół Erhard Loretan - Jean Troillet. W pewnym momencie zostałem sam w obozie III na wysokości 7500 metrów i przez siedem dni czekałem na poprawę pogody. Czułem się jednak dobrze, byłem zdeterminowany i czekałem na swoją szansę. Kiedy zrobiła się pogoda i szykowałem się do ataku, do mojego namiotu zaglądnęła dwójka włoskich himalaistów z wyprawy, której liderem był Benoit Chamoux: Simone Moro i Silvio Mondinelli. Włosi mówili, że atakują szczyt, podobnie jak Chamoux, który startuje z niższego obozu. I rzeczywiście, później spotkałem także jego. Szybko go przegoniłem - miał gorsze tempo, bo był zmęczony podejściem z dwójki. Kiedy dogoniłem Włochów, dołączyłem do nich. W pewnym momencie na grani, w połowie kuluaru, oni wytrawersowali i stwierdzili, że to jest szczyt i że schodzą. Powiedziałem, że to dopiero grań, więc idę dalej; okazało się, że do szczytu zostało jeszcze 150 metrów. Podczas zejścia spotkałem podchodzącego kuluarem Chamouxa. Na pytanie czy byłem na szczycie, odpowiedziałem że owszem, ale dwójka jego kolegów - nie. Mruknął coś pod nosem i poszedł dalej. Schodząc, Chamoux odwiedził mnie w namiocie i poinformował, że wszedł na wierzchołek Lhotse po moich śladach. Wtedy przypomniałem, że jego koledzy nie weszli, do czego on znowu się jasno się nie ustosunkował. Dzień później widziałem w bazie Włochów udzielających wywiadu włoskiej telewizji, z którego można było wnioskować, że zdobyli szczyt. Nie mówiłem o tym Miss Elizabeth Hawley - która zajmuje się zbieraniem informacji o wejściach w Himalajach - chyba nawet jej po tej wyprawie nie widziałem. Ale później zapytała mnie faksem, czy dwójka Włochów była na szczycie. Oczywiście zaprzeczyłem. Później pani Hawley przekazała mi ich faks o treści: "Wierzy pani nam czy jakiemuś Polakowi?" Uwierzyła mnie. Włosi musieli powtarzać swoje wejście... Ciekawostką jest, że w 1996 roku na K2 spotkałem Marco Bianchiego, który chyba na włoskim podwórku rywalizował z którymś ze wspomnianej dwójki. Bianchi w jakiś sposób dowiedział się, że byłem świadkiem tamtego oszustwa. I złożył mi dość szokującą propozycję - że jeśli przygotuję mu pisemne oświadczenie, że wspomniana dwójka nie weszła na Lhotse, to załatwi mi środki na wyprawę na Kangczendzongę. Odmówiłem, argumentując, że udzieliłem już informacji pani Hawley, a teraz prywatnie mówię jemu, ale w oficjalne oświadczenia nie mam zamiaru się bawić. Co ciekawe, wspomniał wtedy, że zespół ten jest sponsorowany przez mafię, co skomentowałem w niewielkim, napisanym później artykuliku "Sukces na zamówienie". Source: book "Ryszard Pawłowski – 40 lat w górach. Wywiad-rzeka". Author Piotr Dróżdż, year 2013, ISBN 978-83-62301-18-8

Here an excerpt from the magazine PZA - Taternik nr 2, rok 1994. "...w maleńkim namiocie na 7500 m. W sumie spędziłem już tutaj sześć samotnych nocy. U góry wciąż wieje, ale moja determinacja również osiągnęła właściwy pułap i spokojnie czekam. Nie chcę stracić szansy popełniając jakiś błąd. Uderzenie musi być precyzyjne i ostateczne. Nocą mam niespodziewanych gości. Dwójka Włochów Sylvio i Simone, którzy wystartowali z obozu poniżej, są przemarznięci i muszą się ogrzać. W maleńkim namiociku aż do rana podejmuję ich ze słowiańską gościnnością. O 5:30 wygrzebujemy się z namiotu. Po drodze mijamy ich lidera, to Francuz Benoit Chamoux, który dzisiaj jest trochę wolniejszy. Warunki w ścianie są idealne. Raki oraz czekany wbijają się w zamrożony śnieg nie więcej jak 2 cm, a ja osiągnąłem chyba życiową formę. W tym roku co najmniej pięć miesięcy spędziłem powyżej 5000 m i teraz to procentuje. W kuluarze pojawia się twardy lód, a wiatr uparcie próbuje nas zdmuchnąć. Jednak nikt się nie asekuruje, wszyscy to stuprocentowi profesjonaliści. O godzinie 13:30 docieram samotnie na wierzchołek Lhotse. Zdobywam się na zrobienie kilku zdjęć. Mam wielką ochotę wychylić się na przeciwległą południową stronę, jednak rozsądek zwycięża. Nawisy są z miękkiego śniegu, a ja bardzo nie chciałbym przelecieć się południową ścianą. Trochę szkoda że nie mam liny ani kogoś, kto by mnie przyasekurował. Włosi uznali, że wierzchołek jest dużo niżej i wcześniej zeszli w dół. Wracając spotykam w kuluarze Benoita. On również ma szansę, do szczytu tylko jakieś 150 m."

With interesting I might add that similar lie was the work of the next two Italians in 1997 on the same Lhotse. Sergio Martini and Fausto De Stefani. It turned out that their entry into the Lhotse on 15 October 1997, is a lie. Korean going after them declared that they turned not - as claimed - 10 meters from the treacherous overhang peak, but about 150 meters below the summit. De Stefani insisted on his claim, while Martini joined in spring 2000, a group of Peter the Hermit, Lhotse to attack again, this time to the very top, which witnessed Slovenia Franc Pepevnik and Milan Romih. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.9.153.113 (talk • contribs) 16:10, 22 July 2014‎


 * Two notes: (1) you can't copy/paste here an entire page of a book (only some sentences), it's a copyviol (2) Sergio Martini and Fausto De Stefani case is a completely different story: it is a well known case of disputed summit, indeed if you google "Martini De Stefani Lhotse disputed" you find a lot of results. In this case instead the summit is not disputed, Mondinelli and Moro websites  say they didn't reach the summit, and it's not clear if and when they changed their version. You say "It is obvious that changed their testimony": no, this is the point, you need sources for this. Wikipedia is not a primary source, but a secondary or tertiary source (see WP:PRIMARY). --Rotpunkt (talk) 16:31, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
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Fight with Sherpas?
His fight with a group of sherpas is documented here from his point of view and here but isn't mentioned I think it should be added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bearbuilder (talk • contribs) 10:06, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

1993 Everest incident
I removed this sub-section as it is UNDUE given the modest scale of this BLP (it would probably be UNDUE in even a larger BLP). This is one of the most important mountaineers in history and the only one to make 4 first winter ascents of an eight thousander. A whole section on an altercation as BC with a bunch of sherpas is textbook UNDUE. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 00:39, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much
Hello sir We are warm-heartedly thankful for your wonderful job and for rescued my brother. I am a sister of that mountaineer to whom you save from camp 4.(Swapnil Garad) We can't imagine what situation is if u didn't rescued on that day.. You came in form of God and saved him.. The whole Garad family always be thankful and really really appreciate your work.. 103.181.226.189 (talk) 03:12, 6 June 2023 (UTC)