Talk:Sinéad O'Connor/Archive 1

Discusion
wouldn't it be reasonable to say that the "alternate" spelling is the correct one that should be used here? Lir 09:34 Nov 10, 2002 (UTC)


 * Quite possibly! I did have the page at Sin&eacute;ad O'Connor for a while, and held a little vote on the Talk:Sin&eacute;ad O'Connor page to see which version people preferred. I moved moved the page here after getting one vote in favour of doing so. Perhaps I should have waited until more votes were in! ;)


 * Okay, more votes please, everyone! -- Oliver Pereira

Shouldnt there be a section on her sexual abuse at the hands of her mother and the following controversy between her and her brother played out in the irish papers? The Sunday Independent, if memory serves. Moodonia (talk) 19:11, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm moving the text from the Talk:Sin&eacute;ad O'Connor page to here for now. Please could people with a strong opinion on the "correct" location of Sinéad O'Connor's entry add their arguments below.

Dangling participle
"Kristofferson then comforted her, while in tears."

Who was in tears here?

Moved text:

 * Do people think that this version of her name should be the default one, or the version without the accent on the "e"? Votes please! :) -- Oliver Pereira


 * The non-accented form gets 6 times the number of Google hits. We also tend to use the widest English form of names. See Naming conventions (anglicization). So I guess Sinéad O'Connor gets my vote. --mav


 * Okay, you win 1 vote to 0. :)


 * Speaking of her name, I have never read that she was named after Sinead de Valera. In fact, in the liner notes of "So Far..." it pretty much states that her name was a weird and wonderful conglomeration of the last kings of Ireland (the O'Connor's) and the infamous wife of Eamon de Valera; a coincidence, and nothing more..  Does anyone have a citation for citing De Valera as her namesake?  If not, it's just speculation.


 * I took the information was from the book So Different. Gamaliel 18:22, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

She and Nicholas Sommerlad have divorced??? When did that happen? Well, that didn't last long, did it? :( Anyway, it's the Queen of Sweden (Silvia, née Sommerlath) that he's allegedly related to, not the King. I'll correct that. I haven't seen any confirmation of the relationship, though... Should we put an "allegedly", or just trust that the Sommerlads have done their research properly? I've thought about getting back in touch with Matthew Sommerlad just so I can ask him about it, but I haven't got round to it... -- Oliver P. 14:32 30 May 2003 (UTC)

He says he is. They haven't divorced yet. It depends on where they get the divorce as to how quick they can get it. But then Sinéad is a bit of a man eater. FearÉIREANN 20:54 30 May 2003 (UTC)

BTW Sinead now insists on always being called Sinéad, not least because her name is pronounced differently without a fada. FearÉIREANN

Ah, thanks for clarifying that. So have you met Nicholas Sommerlad yourself, in your journalistic travels? He went to my school - he was two or three years above me; his brother Matthew was in my year. And I'll move the page unless anyone can suggest any good reason not to... (The "Sinead" spelling will remain a redirect, of course, so there'll be no problem with people finding it.) -- Oliver P. 11:13 31 May 2003 (UTC)


 * Actually the last time I saw Sinéad and Nick was in a gay pub in Dublin called Out on the Liffey. They were there officially as lovers (the fact that they were married was only revealed the next day). Sinéad had to the poor guy pinned down (they were sitting on some steps) snogging the face of him. She only stopped to send Brian Kennedy (the singer) to the bar for a pint (I never realised he was so tall!). Oh and she . . . em . . . came up for air when a drag artist called Mr. Pussy (a friend of hers who was there with her) had a bad luck to win a draw, the prize was to have to come up to sing a song. He was mortified to be called up on his 'night off' (but only for a few seconds. He loves being the centre of attention!). But was truly livid to find whomever had won that draw had to sing a song by . . . Rolf Harris! He nearly stormed off in disgust. He singing Rolf Harris is like Pavorotti being told he had to sing a song by Iron Maiden! Sinéad stopped snogging Nick to death long enough to look around, burst out laughing at Pussy's embarrassment, then, as Nick's head appeared from the ground onto which he had been pinned (I have expected to see an imprint of Nick's head on the wooden steps!) she promptly hopped on him again and began sucking whatever minimal air was left in the poor guy's lungs. People sitting around had to step daintily around them to get to and from the bar - I think everyone was afraid that knowing Sinéad if they stepped on her she would have bitten their ankles! So we all enjoyed the spectacle of a choice of shows, a fat frumpy drag artist's mortification (he has the dress sense of Bet Lynch meets the Queen Mum!) at having to sing a Rolf Harris song, or Sinéad O'Connor half killing poor Nick. (Maybe he promised to marry her to get her to stop kissing him and let him have some air again!!!). So that is the story of Nick, Sinéad and her almost kissing him to death. FearÉIREANN 05:30 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Isn't saying she was ordained a "Roman Catholic" priest inaccurate? She was ordained by Michael Cox, who AFAIR, was excommunicated, and therefore in no position to ordain anyone as a "Roman" Catholic. User:Jimregan

Cox was made a bishop by an ordained bishop and so is a valid bishop. Officially his episcopal ordaination is what is called valid but unlawful (ie, 100% valid because the person who ordained him had the power to do so but as the appointment was not authorized by the Vatican, it was unlawful, therefore he should not have done so). In turn Cox can ordain anyone, but without approval from the Holy See any ordination would also be "valid but unlawful". Theologians have long disputed whether being excommunicated means you cannot ordain. Many for centuries have said that once made a bishop, you cannot be unmade and as by virtue of episcopal office you have a right to ordain people, even if ordained yourself you still can; it is simply that you should not.

Excommunication is complicated because while someone who is excommunicated is by definition outside Roman Catholicism, many of those excommunicated view those who excommunicated them as themselves theologically in error and so de facto excommunicated. In the circumstances, rather than getting involved in disputes over who is and who isn't in error, the safest NPOV way to cover the issue is to say 'x' has been excommunicated but avoid getting into the nitty-gritty of who is and who isn't Roman Catholic. For example, Eamon de Valera was excommunicated, so has Castro. It has been claimed that by allegedly joining the Freemasons the future Pope John XXIII was excommunicated in 1935. And that by supporting abortion Senator Edward Kennedy has been de facto excommunicated. Indeed at its most technical, perhaps one in every ten RCs has been excommunicated, by having abortions, by supporting pro-abortion candidates even when told that doing so would encur automatic excommunication. Millions of Catholics in Italy between 1946 and 1990 were automatically excommunicated by voting for the communist party under the threat of excommunication. In fact most of the founders of the modern Irish state were excommunicated.

So on balance, the safest NPOV route is to say that she was ordained a RC priest but that by doing so she was technically excommunicated, with RC Church disputing her ordination (though curiously one quite conservative - in fact ultra-conservative - theologian told me once that yes she is a priest, which puzzled me. He went into a full theological analysis which went right over my head, though to say he was pissed at the ordination was an understatement! He also explained - as I already knew - that Pope Pius XII ordained a woman priest in I think it was the 1940s and 1950s. I think it was because as a woman the communists behind the Iron Curtain, or it might have been the Nazis at the time, would not have suspected her of being a priest. If I remember correctly, though a priest he empowered her to ordain bishops in an emergency, to continue the Apostolic Succession in the event of a supression of the RC church. The fact of Pope Pius's woman priest has only come to light in recent years but was long known about in the Vatican. So if she could be ordained - and no less a person than the pope said she could - so could Sinéad! Though I doubt if that priest had two divorces, children by other partners and a number of abortions behind her, let alone tore up a picture of the pope on TV!) Going any further involves straying into a theological and factual minefield guaranteed to provoke edit wars, and is also nowhere as simple as the RC Church for its own reasons likes to pretend. :-) FearÉIREANN 22:09 11 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * Isn't saying she was ordained a "Roman Catholic" priest inaccurate? Hmm? According to the edit history, it was you who added that statement to the article in the first place! -- Oliver P. 03:12 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I know. And I was explaining why and some other user was asking for an explanation. That line was put in on the talk page by some other user but they never signed their name. What did you think I was doing? Having a chat with myself? :-) FearÉIREANN 05:13 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Oh! Well, that explains it. Thanks. :) Yes, I always manage to get confused when people don't sign their messages. I can never work out where one person's comments end, and another's begin, even if they're saying opposite things! But I loved your story about Sinéad and Nick and the Rolf Harris-singing drag artist. Can we add it to the article? ;) -- Oliver P. 05:48 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * Whoops. Sorry 'bout that. I was sure I signed it, but the edit history doesn't lie. -- Jim Regan

Links
I just got done changing all but one page's links in the article space from Sinead O'Connor to Sinéad O'Connor. There were 61, for the record. --Ben Brockert 02:27, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)

Doing the same right now. ~ TheSun (talk) 13:46, 30 April 2009 (UTC) ~

Section factual dispute
The section claims that Sinéad changed a lyric in Bob Marley's "War" from "racial injustice" to "sexual abuse". However, as this page shows, "War" doesn't contain the words "racial injustice". If I've screwed up and you know something I don't, just remove the dispute tag and forget this whole thing; if not, then we have to figure out where we went wrong. Deltabeignet 4 July 2005 03:46 (UTC)
 * She sang, "Child abuse, yeah," instead of "Africa, yeah." That was the substitution.

The Lion and the Cobra
Can someone upload a decent picture? I can't seem to get it right, apparently. Gamaliel 09:12, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

"Nothing Compares 2 U" is not on The Lion and the Cobra.

discog tables
I fixed the discog tables to a Wikipedia template and expanded the info. I found all chart positions as I possibly could, although I think I'm missing some UK albums chart peaks, and some UK singles info for peak positions lower than #40. A Google search didn't turn up much more than I already had. Anyone out there have Sinead's full UK chart stats? -- eo 02:17, 28 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I'll try to expand. You can't find of all the UK charts at http://www.everyhit.com (just in case you need it) KittenKlub 22:12, 22 November 2005 (UTC)


 * LOL All the information was already correct and added to the page. The other entries did not seem to have gone past 40 which means that they were not officially listed by the BBC, so it'll be hard to find those entries. KittenKlub 22:17, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

World Party?
Wasn't Sinéad in World Party for two albums? I can't remember the details, but seem to think it was a big step in her career. Seems odd to not even have a mention of it (but I don't know enough to add, sorry) --[mailto:sam@samritchie.com Sam] 04:59, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I HAVE NEVER HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.110.223 (talk) 18:55, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Who excommunicated whom?
My old university chaplain always told me that the Roman Catholic Church doesn't excommunicate anyone - someone had to do something that meant they excommunicated themselves. Accordingly, I changed the sentence:

As a result she was automatically excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church.

To:

As a result she automatically excommunicated herself from the Roman Catholic Church.

Since then, my edit has been reversed. I have no intention of starting an edit war, so perhaps a more neutral statement would be:

As a result she became automatically excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church.

Or does this really mean the same as the first sentence?!?

--Smallbone10 23:25, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

--She was actually excommunicated. Yes, they still do that. --Additionally, it states that she is part of the Palmeranion Catholic Church at the topic of the article, this is not true. She is a priest in another Independent Catholic Church.
 * "Independent Catholic Church" is an oxymoron. She's joined a protestant group, which has pretensions of being Catholic. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.170.224.208 (talk) 08:37, 8 February 2007 (UTC).

--141.140.123.117 03:37, 4 January 2007 (UTC) = that depends, orthodox churches (greek, egypt etc...) are counted as catholic churches by many roman catholic theologians. I am unsure if the church she joined would be counted as such by the same theologians. As I understand it their main difference is that they disagree with the changes made under Vatican II. And of course by ordinating a woman they now have another difference with the roman catholic church.

Massive Attack
Sinead also appears as a vocalist on the Massive Attack album 100th Window and has probably guested elsewhere. The tracks on this album have conotations related to Sineads religious and anti-war beliefs.

2007 album???
Why is a 2007 album listed there? I didn't know it was 2007 already.

--Gabi S. 21:57, 29 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Deleted.
 * --Gabi S. 08:35, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Critically Acclaimed?
There seems to be a bit of a difference of opinion as to whether or not Sinead is critically acclaimed. Is there any evidence of acclaim? --Eyrian 09:53, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I just looked up reviews of her latest album "Throw Down Your Arms" and also got reviews of the show that followed that release. Most reviews are very positive. This is definitely acclaim.
 * --Gabi S. 08:36, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you could replace the text and provide a reference to one of the more mainstream reviews? --Eyrian 10:04, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Going by dictionary definition, it only takes one good review to be "critcally acclaimed" ButteredToast (talk) 22:26, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Rollingstone Magazine definitely sang her praises in the early 90s. I think that counts as "critical acclaim."

Late Late Show Comment was just wrong
The person that wrote: "She performed the single "Throw Down Your Arms" on The Late Late Show in November, but was not well received, embarrassing host Pat Kenny and placing her bare feet on the chair beside her." lied. Go to her website and watch the segment from the aired show and see for yourself. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.41.228.94 (talk) 01:56, 11 June 2006 (UTC).

The only thing critical about Sinead O Connor is her critical disregard and disrespect for Catholicism and the Pope. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.240.109.23 (talk) 20:45, 28 July 2006 (UTC).
 * Please keep you bigoted intolerant comments to yourself. McDanger 10:13, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Sexuality
" In a May 2005 issue of Entertainment Weekly, she again outed herself, this time as a lesbian."

Not true – this article is online (|7137|322351|1_0_,00.html link). Here's what she said:


 * "Though it's clearly painful for her to go back there, she doesn't dodge questions, even about her sexuality: I'm three-quarters heterosexual, a quarter gay. I lean a bit more towards the hairy blokes. (These days, she's single.)"

Also, she first came out as a "lesbian" in Curve in 2000, soon followed by clarification that she was bisexual. 130.212.235.167 22:56, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Her father
Is it Jack or John!?! Excalibur2211 06:35, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Jack . --Eyrian 09:42, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Jack is frequently a nickname for John, and both are nicknames for Jonathan, so it could be both without any contradiction. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.119.159.236 (talk) 21:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC).
 * John most certainly is NOT a nickname for Jonathan, they are both names within their own rights! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.107.142.249 (talk) 20:17, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Hair
MTV mentioned she shaves her head because she refused to become famous because of her good looks. She wants be recognized for her musical talents. Knowing a little about O'Connor, I'd say this could easily be true, but is it actually true? --Vincent de Ruijter 06:00, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I've always been wondering about Sinead's hair, but never found a true answer as to why her hair is just about shaved. I'll look into it more. Soccer5525 (talk) 18:50, 15 June 2008 (UTC)Soccer5525

"Someone told her she would look more femme with short hair", she is not bald. I doubt any other Americans realize the original photo for Lion and the Cobra album photo is totally different in Europe than in United States. If you saw it, it might explain more of what she was representing at the time. Oh and bald chicks are not gross, you are just revealing your virginal immaturity. I am sure she shaved it because she wanted to. Obviously it made people notice her and her music and she made money. 24.253.16.67 (talk) 08:49, 18 July 2008 (UTC)Uforik

Hypocrite?
I'm confused by this article. She tore up the Pope's picture, calling it evil, and now she is a heavy catholic? H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 15:17, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * no, she's a part of DISSENTING catholic group —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.251.53.116 (talk) 03:58, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Contradiction
This paragraph states she's unrepentant about tearing the Pope's photo after she apologized and sought forgiveness for doing it. What?


 * On September 22, 1997, O'Connor was interviewed in Vita, an Italian weekly newspaper. In the interview, she asked the Pope to forgive her. She claimed that the tearing of the photo was "a ridiculous act, the gesture of a girl rebel." She claimed she did it "because I was in rebellion against the faith, but I was still within the faith." She went on to quote Saint Augustine, by saying, "Anger is the first step towards courage."[6] However, O'Connor remains unrepentant about the incident. In a 2002 interview with Salon.com, when asked if she would change anything about the October 3, 1992 SNL appearance, she replied, "Hell, no." [2]

Bantosh 04:27, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I see where you're coming from, and you certainly have a point with that - it does seem to be a bit nonsensical. The best explanation I can offer you is that we're dealing with a very contradictory/mixed up character in general here. Remember: one minute she's a lesbian, and the next minute she's retracting it. One minute, she's retiring from making music, and in the next, there's a new album on the shelves. I could probably go on and on with instances of that nature, but I hope you see what I'm getting at. Perhaps there's a way to rephrase that passage so that it isn't so blatantly contradicting, but the fact that she's said something that was at odds with a previous sentiment is hardly surprising. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.159.213.119 (talk) 01:42, 22 March 2007 (UTC).

Illogical, as with many humans
I agree fully with the unsigned commentor above. If all persons who contradict themselves will end up by having an "article contradicting itself" we are bound to have quite a bunch of them. People are prone to err and be illogical. Sorry, geeks. Shut down the PC and go meet a live person. Or seek Spock for company.

geminga

What’s so hypocritical or contradictory? She was angry at the paedophile coverups by the Catholic Church and spoke out about it. I think the salon article at the bottom of this wiki more then thoroughly explains her position. Just because she views the situation differently today then she did back then does not entail that she would go so far as to take it all back. -ic

Section dispute, II
I believe hearing on a VH1 documentary that the tribute concert that Sinead performed at was for Bob Marley, NOT Bob Dylan. I'd like to have a factual reference to back up this statement. BT14 17:35, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It is referenced - all over the place. There is even a link to it on YouTube. It was Dylan's tribute concert. Not Marley's. Simply Googling it will bring it up everywhere. ExRat 00:58, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

who is this????
i don't know if this is natalie portman when she had to shave her head for a movie, or sinead o'connor when she was young. what do you think? click on the link! [] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Soccer5525 (talk • contribs) 18:58, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * ??? Gary King ( talk ) 08:49, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Its not Sinead. Sinead has more of an Irish cleft chin...24.253.16.67 (talk) 09:13, 18 July 2008 (UTC)Uforik


 * it is Natalie Portman. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:18, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Name of the father
In the article we have Tom and Jack O'Connor. Who is her father? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.189.87.230 (talk) 13:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

theology cover
Could someone upload a descent cover of the theology album? and maybe change the main foto for something newer and less blurry? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.24.51.36 (talk) 15:40, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

To me Sinead sounds more like a lyric soprano (lyric full colour) instead of mezzo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.218.228.10 (talk) 23:15, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Controversial comments about the IRA
The mention of comments made about the IRA are not sourced. A source would be helpful, as well as a summary of what was actually said and why it is controversial. Without that the statement seems useless. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.53.152.181 (talk) 14:19, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Throw Down Your Arms - not very enthusiastic
I changed the description of the critical acclaim of TDYA, as there are no citations of critics that are so enthusiastic about it. Certainly not all of them considered it to be one of her best albums. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 10:05, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Incorrect pictures

The pictures shown are not of an accurate depiction of the person that the page is about. May be inaccurate links or vandalism. I'm not able to fix this so please feel free. Veryunstable (talk) 15:26, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Discography
Could someone render a discography page? So that it's just a link on the Sinead page, and because it takes a lot of space. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.0.75.60 (talk) 09:26, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Meaning of catholic
WRT several comments in various sections: Beware that statements like "X is catholic" can mean different things in different contexts. At a minimum, we have to differ between being a member of the catholic church and adhering to a certain set of believes. Additionally, it is quite possible to disagree with the Pope without necessarily disagreeing with the church as a whole. (Ex cathedra statements excepted.)188.100.204.101 (talk) 10:49, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Nothing compares to the righteous anger of Sinéad
Leaving source here for her helping Christ burn down the Vatican comment. -- can  dle &bull; wicke  04:11, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Here is the original. -- can  dle &bull; wicke  04:13, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Didn't realise it had been reported in Australia. -- can  dle &bull; wicke  04:15, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Pope's letter: "A study in the art of lying". -- can  dle &bull; wicke  05:35, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
 * "20 Years Ago This Week: Sinead O'Connor releases 'I Do Not Want'". Useful. -- can  dle &bull; wicke  08:19, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Sinéad O'Connor holding Gay Byrne's hand to her cheek. -- can  dle &bull; wicke  01:07, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Kristofferson immortalises 'Sister Sinead'. -- can  dle &bull; wicke  03:37, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Supposed apology for SNL pope incident
I have just removed the following former section:


 * On 22 September 1997, O'Connor was interviewed in Vita, an Italian weekly newspaper. In the interview, she asked the Pope to forgive her. She claimed that the tearing of the photo was "a ridiculous act, the gesture of a girl rebel." She claimed she did it "because I was in rebellion against the faith, but I was still within the faith." She went on to quote Saint Augustine, by saying, "Anger is the first step towards courage."

First of all, the given source returns a not found error. Second of all, the given source is not Vita (the newspaper alleged to have published the apology), but Zenit.com which is a Catholic organisation itself and not a primary or indeed objective source. In their own words, Zenit are a "non-profit international news agency, made up of a team of professionals and volunteers who are convinced of the extraordinary richness of the Catholic Church’s message, particularly its social doctrine. The ZENIT team sees this message as a light for understanding today’s world".

Zenit have been accused, by progressive Catholic group Commonweal, as being a front for the Legion of Christ. Ironically, this group has been implicated in both smear campaigns and child sexual abuse.

O'Connor has never repeated this alleged apology, instead vigorously standing by her conduct then in many interviews since then. Furthermore, I find no reference to this apology anywhere else on the web. Everywhere rather references the Wikipedia article or mentions the Vita article in passing—most likely derivative of the Wikipedia entry as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stepheno (talk • contribs) 12:50, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Pending changes
This article is one of a number selected for the early stage of the trial of the Pending Changes system on the English language Wikipedia. All the articles listed at Pending changes/Queue  are being considered for level 1 pending changes protection.

The following request appears on that page:

Comments on the suitability of theis page for "Pending changes" would be appreciated.

Please update the Queue page as appropriate.

Note that I am not involved in this project any much more than any other editor, just posting these notes since it is quite a big change, potentially

Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 00:03, 17 June 2010 (UTC).

Obviously?
The section about Madonna's reaction says she was "obviously" trying to promote her records. Sounds subjective to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.159.86.122 (talk) 11:13, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

O'Connor does not actually appear to be a priest
O'Connor does not actually appear to be a priest as it states in the box on the right hand of the page. As the article itself observes, the Catholic Church would not recognize her ordination, and it appears that she also never took it very seriously, continued to produce music, and has become a rastafarian. 98.122.165.94 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:02, 4 July 2010 (UTC).
 * Okay, so the Roman Catholic Church doesn't recognize it and calls it a grave crime. However, Sinead was ordained by an Independent Catholic Church, which is not in communion with the RCC anyway. If Sinead has become a Rastafarian, then she may have walked away from Catholicism altogether; however, source material is needed to back up any such assertation. 68.36.120.7 (talk) 08:06, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Removal
I removed some stuff from this article for the following reasons: 1) "Controversies" headings are inherently POV, a sign of poor writing and are discouraged. Much of the content under this heading was unreferenced BLP violations as well as violations of WP:NPOV. Most of it violated WP:UNDUE and WP:COATRACK. This isn't a tabliod. Kindzmarauli (talk) 18:34, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Madonna's reaction hardly qualifies as "tabloid" and it has been reinstituted in the article. ALL of it was referenced so I'm not seeing where you got that. Frankly, Madonna's very, very nasty reaction to Sinead has been erased from media history beacuse the press paints her as a "sisterhood" and "anti-Catholic" "artist". The most famous women in the world then and to some extent still, who defamed and attacked Sinead needs to be included.Catherine Huebscher (talk) 1:03, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Vegas
Gambling, prostitution, un meds, music, crime ridden areas, Frank Sinatra. How could the most obscene moment happen to one of the greatest vocalists since mtv? No one spoke up for Sinead. There are polite and proper ways of communicating suitable requests. Hippo critters dirty up the water as a way of communicating to stay away, so there is a similar sounding name, but nature knows best. Mother Earth Day *)75.204.194.39 (talk) 09:30, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, not clear what this post is about. Please clarify. --BwB (talk) 12:39, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Tattoo
I noticed in a video on YouTube that she has a tattoo on her wrist. Seems it is not mentioned here, and I was curious what the tattoo says. :-) Maybe this could be included (if anyone knows)? --95.34.5.239 (talk) 18:53, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Dylan concert incident
She was not "Booed off stage", that would indicate she left without performing at all. She stood her ground and performed a Bob Marley song rather than the Dylan song scheduled. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.145.179.123 (talk) 13:43, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Madonna's Reaction
Can we get this section right or remove it since it has nothing to do with Sinead and is covered in SNL article? Madonna ripped up a picture of Joey Butafuoco but every time anyone changes it to that the revision gets rejected ... so we have a nonsensical article that says Madonna criticised Sinead for ripping up a picture of PJPII but also ripped up the same image ... ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.221.234.113 (talk) 18:49, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Madonna's Reaction
Strongly support this section being removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.237.17.228 (talk) 07:26, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

The Young Victoria, 2009
Sinead O'Connor's song "Only You" was apparently the theme song of the 2009 film "The Young Victoria." I'm not sure of the details, but I just got done watching the film. — Preceding unsigned comment added by M Milk (talk • contribs) 04:51, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Tonton macoute
There seems to be a mistake in the references to Haitian culture, the Tontons macoutes refer to an image of the bogeyman in creole and now to the milita of Duvalier, the former dictator of Haiti, and not to zombies. We can make a link with symbolic zombies of course, but the direct definition of zombies is misleading and misinformation. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonton_Macoute). I don't know how to rephrase the sentence to make improve it and remove the ambiguity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.244.167.120 (talk) 01:27, 17 April 2011 (UTC)]])

Supposed apology for SNL pope incident
I have just removed the former sentence relating to a 1997 interview where O'Connor described herself as a "girl rebel."

This interview has no original source locatable on the internet, and seems unlikely. A better citation is required than a second-hand interview. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stepheno (talk • contribs) 12:27, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Ryan Report
It's probably worth noting that the Irish government published a report in 2002 that documented widespread child abuse -- physical and sexual -- on the part of Catholic priests, nuns and lay brothers, creating a scandal not unlike those that have swept the United States and other nations. The church has done little to address the concerns raised by the report. Sinead had the facts on her side, even though they weren't as public then as they are now.

http://www.childabusecommission.ie/

So????? Shouldn't be in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.10.46.8 (talk) 23:11, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

˜˜˜˜ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisvnicholson (talk • contribs) 15:52, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Trouble Relationship Citation:
The relationship was with a popular Spin Magazine journalist. It could be found in past issues of Spin Magazine 1980-1985... I know the on again off again relationship had been mentioned at least one issue. He had a slick name like Vic or something like that. Anyhow, I sent a lifeline out to an old friend that helpt pioneer the 120 minutes MTV show. (He who will go unnamed, just in case she (Ms. O'Connor) would be upset with him for digging up what is most certainly a painful past. I need to give 'him' plausable deniability if he approached about this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Billzeecat (talk • contribs) 13:26, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

'Edit' not working
Why is the 'edit' key disabled? I want to put in something about this incident with Israel terrorists and death threats. (Also in Haartez)

Rock rebel Sinead O'Connor, forced by terrorists to cancel a peace concert, demanded yesterday: "How can there be peace on earth if there is no peace in Jerusalem?"

The singer was due to appear on Saturday at an open-air festival in the divided city.

But she called off the gig after death threats against her were made in a phone call to the British Embassy.

The Israeli intelligence service, MOSSAD, told her to treat the warning seriously. Her act would have marked the end of a week of celebrations organised by Israeli left-wingers and Palestinians campaigning for sovereignty over East Jerusalem and calling for it to be handed back to the Arabs.

Last week right wing extremists of the outlawed anti-Arab Koch movement boasted on Israeli radio how they had sabotaged the concert. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.24.102.36 (talk) 13:20, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

madonna
Madonna's reaction to Sinead might be worth a sentence, but no more. It is not important. Johncmullen1960 (talk) 07:05, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Suggestions
I recall Arsenio Hall said he'd pay for her plane ticket to leave the country. She did leave -- then sent him the bill. Perhaps that should be included.

I'm a bit concerned over rewriting history. At the time O'Connor ripped up the picture of the Pope, apart from outrage, I don't recall any reference to sexual abuse within the church. That appears to have retroactively been tacked on due to the later Church sex abuse scandal. I also remember that she later apologized, saying she had been going through a tough time back then. I don't see that in the article either. 76.93.155.137 (talk) 05:01, 15 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I remember it being MC Hammer. Gamaliel (talk) 05:25, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Vegan?
Is Sinéad O'Connor actually vegan? She is listed under both Irish and Christian vegan categories. I can find no declaration from her stating that she is vegan and there is nothing sourced in the article. Without sounding too disrespectful, her current body shape makes vegetarianism more likely but I cannot even find any evidence of this. If there is no source forthcoming over the coming days I shall remove the categories. Nirvana2013 (talk) 15:12, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * No source forthcoming. I have removed the categories. Nirvana2013 (talk) 14:33, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Introduction
The introduction is not a summary of Sinead O'Connor or her career, has no sources and is not objective.

You may disagree with what I say, but until the introduction is cited, it is just an opnion like mine:

First para: fine.

Second para: "Since then, she has occasionally encountered controversy, partly due to her forthright statements and gestures". It is not because her statements are forthright, it is because of what her statements contain. As for each subject: 'ordination as a priest', yes, controversial, but only within the church, (other don;'t give a fig), 'expressed strong views on organized religion', doubtful - so do many famous people, 'women's rights', no, I can't find anything about that. 'war', no - the majority of people say the same as her, 'child abuse', again, no, she is saying nothing that others don't agree with. Her main controversy is not even listed!

Third para: "Her body of work includes a number of collaborations..." is a true statement but not a summary of her career. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paulmarkj (talk • contribs) 12:16, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Blasphemy?
I am concerned that the usage of blasphemy in this context does not represent a neutral point of view. This can be true only if the Catholic point of view is considered. 67.20.242.89 (talk) 21:34, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit request
There's a somewhat pedantic CN tag for the duet with Matt Johnson. Here is a book source. 66.168.247.159 (talk) 04:22, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Zombies!?
I just had to point out that the Tonton Macoute weren't zombies, they were a paramilitary force created by Papa Doc Duvalier. Not only were they more real than zombies, they were a right terror, as the association with Duvalier should make pretty clear to any observer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.7.161.44 (talk) 16:57, 28 October 2011 (UTC)


 * According to the source, the name of the paramilitary force is derived from mythology. Gamaliel (talk) 17:00, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

New category
Would someone be a divil and add the newly created Category:LGBT musicians from Ireland to Sinéad's page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.108.0 (talk • contribs)
 * ✅  Chzz  ► 07:22, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Sex Of
Are we completly sure this individual is female? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.177.88.53 (talk) 03:41, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Blasphemy!?
By whose reckoning is tearing up a photograph of a human being "blasphemy"? I would argue that term ought not be used at all in a neutral bio article; it only has meaning with reference to the religious belief systems of a subset of the reading population here. Recommend: "Contrary to rumor, NBC was not fined by the FCC, which cannot and does not regulate expression on religious matters."Sebum-n-soda (talk) 23:35, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Romantic/Family life
She and her fiance did marry on December 8 2011 in the back of a pink Cadillac at the Little White Wedding Chapel in Las Vegas Nevada. This is the iconic site taht both Elvis Presley and Britney Spears married (not to each other, silly). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cbonshep (talk • contribs) 05:03, 10 December 2011‎ (UTC)


 * Is there a reliable source to verify this against? —C.Fred (talk) 05:11, 10 December 2011 (UTC)


 * It happened but it has ended after only 16 days. Mattg82 (talk) 01:10, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Twitter
She's on Twitter:, and a mention on her official website saying that account is hers: , entry dated 29/12/11. Can someone put the twitter site in the "external links" section please? 86.143.70.16 (talk) 15:51, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 13 February 2012 - regarding "Ton Ton Macoutes", which are NOT "Haitian zombies".
Please change reference to "Ton Ton Macoutes" as being "Haitian zombies" (ridiculous, actually) to read "Haitian paramilitary police". The Ton Ton Macoutes were the brutal paramilitary force employed by "Papa Doc" (Francois) Duvalier and, later, by his son "Baby Doc" (Jean Claude) Duvalier, to keep the Haitan masses "in check".

Thanks.

Jasmineprezeau (talk) 21:31, 13 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Not done. In local slang the Haitian paramilitary police were called after the mythological monsters (see Tonton Macoutes). It was an unfortunate, if not foolish name to chose for a band in the 1980s, given the political overtones, but there you go. Span (talk) 21:46, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 24 February 2012 - regarding "Ton Ton Macoutes", which are NOT "Haitian zombies".
Please change "Haitian zombies" to "Haitian paramilitary police". I would strongly support the previous edit request. The text doesn't say "Ton Ton Macoutes", named after a paramilitary force which were known by locals as "Zombies". The text states that the Ton Ton Macoutes [sic] were zombies. They weren't. They were Duvalier's paramilitary force. Even if locals referred to them in slang terms as "zombies", that wouldn't mean they _were_ zombies, which are a very different and very specific thing. They _named_ them after a mythological bogeyman, because of their fearsome reputation. Anyone reading the text without knowing the background would assume that "Ton Ton Macoutes" were a type of Haitian zombie. If Wikipedia is supposed to be about educating people, then this goes completely against this. For the record, the Wikipedia entry that you cite never mentions "zombies", and certainly doesn't say that the locals called the Tonton Macoutes "zombies".

--Sunsetandcamden (talk) 19:15, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

✅ Bastun Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 19:39, 24 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't know a thing about Haitian myth. All I know is what the cited source says, and it doesn't say anything about bogeymen or gunnysacks.  It says zombies, and I'm tired of people who aren't familiar with the source claiming it says something it doesn't say.  If it pisses people off or is factually inaccurate, then it's best to remove it altogether instead of making something up and citing it to something that doesn't say that.  Gamaliel (talk) 06:16, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
 * It seems pretty clear as it is to me. No need to over-egg it. Span (talk) 12:36, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

excommunication
it is my understanding (perhaps mistakenly) that she was excommunicated by the roman catholic church. this is definitely noteworthy to mention somewhere. there is only an inference that her actions are deemed worthy of excommunication.Newtonsghost (talk) 23:42, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism
Surely this sentence, in the Early Life section, is vandalism?

''Sean O'Connor's efforts to secure custody of his children in a country which routinely denied custody to fathers and prohibited divorce, motivated him to become chairman of the Divorce Action Group and a prominent public spokesman. At one point, he even debated his wife on the subject on a radio show.'' InHaze (talk) 04:03, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Category
Please subtract Category:Music in Dublin (city) and add Category:Musicians from Dublin (city). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.107.130 (talk • contribs)
 * Done. BusterD (talk) 04:49, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Requested Edit, 28/09/2012
I don't have an account and this article is locked, so I cannot edit it myself. Please could someone edit this page to the following effect: (To be added to the end of the first paragraph of Musical Career, 1980s - after the comment about support for the IRA.  Suggested wording only!)

(She later retracted her comments supporting the IRA, saying she was young and did not understand the situation in Northern Ireland properly .)

I believe this is necessary to provide a neutral point of view - as currently written the article gives no indication that she no longer holds these views. This is a very emotive subject and I have known people who have rejected her work entirely because of her comments about the IRA, so I believe it sensible to clarify Sinead's views.

--cfmdobbie 78.105.123.15 (talk) 19:54, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Garden State Arts Center performance
Could the author of the sentence "The incident made tabloid headlines, and O'Connor drew tabloid-derived criticism" please revise it so that the meaning of the second clause is clear? Otherwise I will excise the clause. Catwizzle (talk) 21:49, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Abortion
Sinead O'connor Tells Of Her Abortion (Sinead O'Connor Tells of her Abortion)

August 20, 1991 By Michael Vitez, Inquirer Staff Writer The Associated Press, Washington Post and USA today contributed to this report

Singer-songwriter Sinead O'Connor was in the middle of a concert tour last August and about nine weeks pregnant when she checked into a Minneapolis hospital for an abortion.

"I think people don't necessarily understand, because they haven't had the experience, that to decide to terminate a pregnancy is probably the most difficult decision a woman would have to make," O'Connor, 23, said in a recent interview from England.

She wrote "My Special Child" - a gentle, mournful ballad, almost a lullaby, with acoustic guitar and an Irish chamber orchestra - about two weeks later and began performing it. After playing this spring at a benefit for Kurdish refugees, she decided she wanted to release it as a single; all royalties are being donated to the International Red Cross.

O'Connor sings about a daughter she never had, one with "yellow skin" and ''dark curls," and lashes out at the "lies" and "cruel heart" of the man who would have been her father.

"It was a planned pregnancy, which I was very happy about," said O'Connor. "I was completely in love with the father of the child. . . . But things didn't work out between us and we were both unhappy. It was too much for him to be able to handle. He was young (26) and I was on tour and I was feeling ill all the time because I was pregnant and I was feeling so awful and I made the decision that it would be better for everybody if I had the abortion."

O'Connor was married in 1989 to musician John Reynolds; they separated in June 1990. They have a son, Jake, 4. "I didn't have a sense of guilt about the abortion," she said. "If I had had the child, I wouldn't have been in any state to be the mother that child would have deserved. It wouldn't have worked that way. As far as I'm concerned, that child's spirit is gone and perhaps some day it will return."

203.38.100.131 (talk) 01:40, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Joe Pesci Inaccuracy
The section that discusses Joe Pesci's monologue that followed the week after O'Connor's performance mentions "He then tore up another photo—of O'Connor herself—to huge applause." Viewing the monologue located here, there is no part where Pesci rips up a picture of O'Connor. I would make the edit myself but the page is semi-protected. Thanks 98.225.154.188 (talk) 14:39, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

No longer bipolar- Misdiagnosed
http://www.irishmirror.ie/showbiz/irish-showbiz/doctors-tell-sinead-oconnor-youre-2344863 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.45.184.25 (talk) 20:04, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Cocaine induced divorve.
http://www.thewrap.com/music/article/sinead-oconnor-crack-cocaine-ended-16-day-marriage-33975

So Sinead is open in the press openly talking about the divorce, so why not include it?Coemgenv (talk) 00:29, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Twitter citations?
What should we do about the ugly string of expired Twitter citations at the end of the Sinead O'Connor section? They're all dead links on the Twitter site, and anyway providing eight separate references seems like overkill. Since the relevant tweet text is included in the refs, I'm tempted to just tidy them all into a single ref block. However, maybe there's already a WP policy for handling this sort of thing. For that matter, since Twitter itself is presumably a primary source, perhaps we should be citing some other media archive that reported this material. Any thoughts?jxm (talk) 19:16, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Sinead O'Connor's first album song title: "I Do Not Want What I Haven't Got"
Sinead O'Connor was talking sound like Danielle Deleveaux. And Sinead was talking like her songs, "Feel So Different" "I Am Stretched On Your Grave" "Three Babies" "The Emperor's New Clothes" "Black Boys On Mopeds" "Jump In The River" "The Last Day Of Our Acquaintance" "You Cause As Much Sorrow". Then Sinead was talking sound like herself with a songs, "Nothing Compares To You" "I Do Not Want What I Haven't Got". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.139.56.225 (talk) 13:23, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Socialist
I read on a article about her joining Sinn Fein that she wanted a Socialist Ireland. Is it ok that I added "Irish Socialists" to the category? Here is the article. http://www.digitalspy.com/celebrity/news/a615742/sinead-oconnor-applies-to-join-sinn-fein-i-want-a-socialist-ireland.html

User:Colin2k4 (talk) June 10, 2015 — Preceding undated comment added 02:58, 11 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Considering her SF application was rejected and the lack of other citations, I would say not yet. If there is an Irish Times article (for instance) where she is designated as such - then yes.Karst (talk) 06:55, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Do you understand SOCIALISM predates Marx, and has nothing to do with his vision of communism?. If so please include. As the IRA were a socialist society. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.192.196.112 (talk) 20:07, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 July 2015
"Put your hands on me" was also featured in the Hit show Miami Vice Episode

Dsasse (talk) 02:52, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

More importantly, you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 08:41, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Im not sure if/where such trivia should be in the article, please request a specific change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".

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Reported missing
Today she has been reported missing in the Wilmette area of Chicago -. This may prove to be nothing - so far I don't think it's worthy of mention - but I'm sure we will hear more. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:43, 16 May 2016 (UTC) PS: If it is mentioned, it needs to be in a section other than that headed "Musical career". Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:23, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

They found her. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.222.184.28 (talk) 23:25, 16 May 2016 (UTC)


 * WP:NOTNEWS. Give her some space. Bastun Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 23:26, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 January 2017
Sinead is writing her memoirs and will be published March 2016. Well thats been and gone so out of date information. 82.240.244.27 (talk) 13:24, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Sentence amended. Karst (talk) 13:31, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

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Name change
How will this be addressed here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.228.106.68 (talk) 21:13, 13 September 2017 (UTC)