Talk:Sinclair Lewis/Archive 1

Please bring up to appropriate level for topic
This article merits a lot more attention to Wiki standards for an American Icon and Nobel Laureate.HopsonRoad 02:27, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Commercial Success section
Is that paragraph about Lewis' short stories really necessary? It seems awfully irrelevant to me for the purposes of this article. Furthermore, it was not Lewis' stories that brought him commercial success, and who's even heard of that Disney thing? Jrs044 (talk) 05:01, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The short-stories comment appears to be innocent enough since the redlink points to an old movie - looks like someone making connections between articles, ratherr than advertising. I fixed the redlink - a typo Tedickey (talk) 13:58, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I have read Lewis and about him. I added Lingeman's biography and the line about what Main Street earned but in trying to add a footnote, something happened connecting it to a cartoon that I do not know how to delete and change.MKohut (talk) 01:23, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I, for one, have heard of the "Disney thing," meaning Fun and Fancy Free. The story of Bongo, a circus bear cub, who runs away from the circus and experiences wild adventures is very much related to Lewis's own life. Who could forget the line "when bears are in love, they say it with a slap"? Lewis depicted the Lulu Belle and Lumpjaw characters memorably. From a life of alcohol and disgust, Lewis left us a small tale of love and happiness.Lestrade (talk) 14:21, 7 February 2009 (UTC)Lestrade

There seems to be some uncertainty about the number of copies of Main Street sold in the first six months. This paragraph mentions a figure of 180,000, while the Wikipedia entry for Main Street (linked from this article) under the sub-heading Literary significance and criticism mentions a figure of 250,000 copies sold in the first six months ... Which figure is correct? Duckinatree (talk) 14:36, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Notorious Homosexual
Why doesn't this article mention anything about Lewis being gay? It's obviously well-documented, if I remember correctly from my American Lit. class.--216.164.61.173 (talk) 20:51, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Nice try, but the tactic doesn't work with every famous person.Lestrade (talk) 14:05, 7 February 2009 (UTC)Lestrade

neutrality?
what is the neutrality tag on the article about? the only dispute i see here is over that quote, and there is a tag on the quote section itself. --dan (talk) 16:00, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * It was added here, but no one appears to have discussed it. Tedickey (talk) 16:50, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * indeed. well i'm going to take it out. if someone wants to make a case for the article not being neutral, they can put the tag back in and discuss their objections. --dan (talk) 03:45, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Personal Life?
Did he have kids, was he married? What's the deal here, why is there no personal information about him? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.175.66.94 (talk) 01:22, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Not enough
This is really not enough of a discussion of either his bio or his significance in 20th century lit. Bruxism 05:37, 9 December 2005 (UTC) '''hello it is great Insert non-formatted text here --64.83.207.218 13:05, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup
I cleaned up some parts of this very inconsistent article. Here are some things that I took out that I'll leave for others to decide what to do with:

Lewis married the writer Grace Livingstone Hegger, whom he met while working in New York City, on April 15, 1914.

In 1928 he married journalist Dorothy Thompson and in 1930 their son Michael Lewis was born.

Each of Lewis's serious books -- Our Mr. Wrenn, Dodsworth, Gideon Planish,Trail of the Hawk, and The Job demonstrated a steady development in skill and brought increasingly positive reviews, despite lackluster sales. (That last sentence was in the Early Career section, for some reason.) Jrs044 00:43, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Sinclair Lewis' Main Street and John Updike's The Witches of Eastwick - the same novel?
Well? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.103.184.76 (talk) 20:08, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Literary content
The lead notes that he was known for portraying modern working women, but the content of the article below does not address this. More content and cites needed to provide material about his writing, and not just the facts of his life.Parkwells (talk) 15:48, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Citations for quotations?
Could someone please provide citations for the quotations -- where are they from? Did he say them, or are they in some published works? If he said them, when/where, how is this verified? I have seen the quotation about fascism/the flag/a cross all over the Internet, but no one cites the source.Archivizt 06:45, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross" quote appears to come from Lewis' 1935 novel "It Can't Happen Here". But Lewis probably borrowed and expanded Huey Long's "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the American flag". K8 fan 11:45, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

The "...fascism...flag...cross" quote is often attributed to the novel It Can't Happen Here, but perhaps erroneously. The novel is searchable on Gutenberg, and I can't find anything particularly close to that quote. Snopes has a discussion page on the topic, and no one seems to have been able to find the quote's source. One thread suggest that the quote isn't found earlier than about 2005. The novel does deal with fascism coming to America. I wonder if Lewis might have made the statement in an interview or article following publication of the book. I agree that these quotation sources should be cited. Mis-attributing quotes is a grand old tradition.Muserjc 04:28, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Frankly, the context in which it was originally found makes it pretty apparent that it's a fake. Anyone can search the book, and fail to find it, but several people have insisted that it go back in as a bona-fide quote. Tedickey (talk) 20:42, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Personally, I view quotation sections in the same way as WP:TRIVIA sections and don't think they have a place in Wiki outside of Wikiquote. I say if it's this disputed then remove it until an exact reference can be made. Adding blogs, however, as sources is absolutely unacceptable per WP:VERIFY which states, "Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published books, personal websites, open wikis, and blogs are largely not acceptable as sources." Note, if something is unverifiable as Muserjc's comment seems to imply then it can be challenged and removed. WP:VERIFY states, "The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged should be attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation." --Strothra (talk) 20:46, 26 December 2007 (UTC)


 * There aren't any exact or reliable references. The blogs cited point to the same sources which you can find, should you choose to spend the time doing the reading. If you had done the reading, you might have noticed for example that Snopes doesn't allow modifying the entries after they're entered. Furthermore, the text of the book is online (for those in a hurry), and the book itself is easy to find. Tedickey (talk) 20:51, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
 * If the sources cited in the blogs are double-checked then you can cite them directly. Citing blogs is simply not acceptable per policy and for good reason. --Strothra (talk) 20:56, 26 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The two blogs are cited as examples of the misattribution as it exists (hence the accessdate, in case that changes). Snopes contains a discussion which gives the information regarding it as one can find using google. Keeping in mind that "I" am not a reliable source, I had already determined most of that by searching in google and examining the book (paper and online) myself. So I pointed to Snopes as an aid to the reader to see what the situation is. There are a lot of pages now, which state it as a fact, and it would be nice to point out that it is not. Tedickey (talk) 21:00, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Using blogs as an example of incorrect attribution would be original research. --Strothra (talk) 21:33, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
 * More discussion here http://shii.org/knows/Fascism_comes_wrapped_in_the_flag Conclusion was that the quote is not one of Lewis'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.11.131.82 (talk) 05:50, 7 January 2008 (UTC)


 * yes, but (a) it essentially offered no additional information other than the newsclipping than Snopes, (b) is a blog whose content could change more easily than Snopes. So I decided it was unnecessary to quote that. As noted in more than one place, the text of the book is online. I've a copy of the book (which I did scan through recently, looking for the quote), and if someone can point out that the online text is missing the quote, they'll have to cite chapter and page number (approximate) to convince me that the quote is valid. Tedickey (talk) 11:32, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

To me, it seems obvious that the wording "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." was created by one of the two people, possibly both the same person, in 2005 that Shii talks about. The author was probably influenced by Lewis, Long, both, or anyone, but changed the wording for aesthetic purposes. Perhaps attributing quotes isn't so simple when they are a mix of ideas, which the fascism/flag/cross quote most likely is. As an example of people changing the wording of quotes, consider all the variations of the Benjamin Franklin quote about giving up liberties. In conclusion, if anything about this is mentioned on this article, keep it to exactly what Lewis said, then talk about the variation(s) that were based on it, considering the revisionists still credited Lewis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.61.21.198 (talk) 05:19, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I would like to offer the following response from Dr. Sally E. Parry of the Sinclair Lewis Society in response to my question regarding an authoritative reference to the quote: "When fascism comes to America..." usually attributed to Mr. Lewis: - This quote sounds like something Sinclair Lewis might have said or written, but the Sinclair Lewis Society has never been able to find this exact quote although we've been asked a number of times. Here are passages from two books Lewis wrote that at least hint at the quote attributed to him.

From It Can't Happen Here: "But he saw too that in America the struggle was befogged by the fact that the worst Fascists were they who disowned the word 'Fascism' and preached enslavement to Capitalism under the style of Constitutional and Traditional Native American Liberty."

From Gideon Planish: "I just wish people wouldn't quote Lincoln or the Bible, or hang out the flag or the cross, to cover up something that belongs more to the bank-book and the three golden balls." -

In light of the abject failure of anyone in locating an authoritative reference for this quote and the above information from Dr. Parry, it would seem that the quote cannot be reliably attributed to Mr. Lewis. Further, in the spirit of correcting the abundant misinformation rampant on the internet, I suggest that a statement regarding the unreliability of the attribution to Mr. Lewis of this quote be plainly and prominently included in the Sinclair Lewis page as well as on his page in the WikiQuotes section.

BornRightTheFirstTime (talk) 19:31, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Sales
I removed "[ this figure needs verifying, since it does not agree with the figure of 250,000 copies mentioned in the separate Main Street (novel) Wiki entry ]". The 180,000 is for the first six months (i.e. October to April) rather than the first six months of 1921. I don't know where the 250,000 comes from. Eclecticology (talk) 03:21, 4 November 2012 (UTC)