Talk:Sindisiwe van Zyl

Nationality
She held a South African passport, which is only for SA nationals. No source says she was a Zimbabwean national. She confirmed that she is a South African citizen.

User:Xclusivzik

Globaltwenty (talk) 08:09, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Globaltwenty FYI as per the South African Department of Home affairs. A foreign national can acquire a South African ID or passport if they’ve worked and stayed in South Africa for a period of 4/5 years. Xclusivzik (talk) 09:27, 13 April 2021 (UTC)


 * User:Xclusivzik. You provide no source of Zimbabwean citizenship/nationality. A third opinion may need to be sought if disagreement continues.
 * Going with what she said in the lead, "Zimbabwean-born South African citizen" . (Lost password).


 * Globaltwenty (talk) 10:24, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

There’s multiple sources cited on the article... However I think the ‘Zimbabwean-born South African’ is acceptable considering she has a  Zimbabwean ID and a South African ID. Her nationality on the other hand is a different story, “nationality denotes where an individual has been born....”. Xclusivzik (talk) 10:58, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Actually, no, see the article Nationality. Nationality means almost the same thing as citizenship, with only a technical distinction that is relevant to very few people in the world (e.g. people born in American Samoa, where individuals are typically non-citizen U.S. nationals at birth). But for most practical purposes, the terms nationality and citizenship in the English language mean exactly the same thing. And nationality definitely does not mean the country where someone was born. Nsk92 (talk) 12:38, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Hmm, reading Nationality more carefully and looking at the sources further I see that the situation is actually more confusing. There are secondary colloquial usages of the word "nationality", and it can also mean "national identity" or sometimes even "ethnic origin". To the extent that we use the "nationality" field in infoboxes of Wikipedia articles, I think we should stick to the main meaning of this term specified in our own Nationality article, to avoid confusing the readers. (Plus other scholarly encyclopedias, such as Britannica also use that meaning.) And I think we should not be using the fields "citizenship" and "nationality" in the same infobox, that's really way too confusing. Nsk92 (talk) 13:08, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Nsk92 The two can be quite confusing at times. I had initially looked at Citizenship and nationality. Xclusivzik (talk) 15:22, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, and as I said above, I believe we should remove the "nationality" field from the infobox for this article as its meaning can be quite confusing for the readers (I certainly was quite confused when I saw it next to the "citizenship" field with a different value specified there). The infobox already has the "citizenship" and "place of birth" fields that are quite sufficient for specifying the relevant info. If there are sources that say something about how the subject herself viewed her national identity, that should be discussed in the main body of the article. Btw, there is also a relevant ongoing thread, started in March, at Template talk:Infobox person. Nsk92 (talk) 16:04, 13 April 2021 (UTC) ‎