Talk:Sing (Travis song)

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Spring of 1999
I checked the 2 refs used in the BG section, and the Independent only says Sing was written in 1999 (no mention of "spring"), while the yeoyl.tripod.com one seems to be a fansite(?) that posted transcripts of the band's notes on the song. If this is correct, is there an actual reliable secondary source that specifically mentions "spring of 1999" that could replace it? Otherwise the wording in the BG section (and the lead) should be changed to just say "...in 1999", as we're supposed to avoid seasonal phrasing for dates anyways. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 06:45, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I had a feeling someone was going to bring WP:SEASON up, and I'll honor that. As for the fansite, I used it because I checked Travis's official site but couldn't find this information anywhere. I even checked several archives but came up empty (hence the "via" param in the ref). I'll run through the archives again and see if I can find it. ResPM  (T&#x1F508; &#x1F3B5;C) 12:45, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Wait, actually, the site I use isn't loading right now, so I'll check again later. ResPM  (T&#x1F508; &#x1F3B5;C) 12:51, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay, Carlobunnie, I had to go back almost 20 years, but I've found the original source. I also managed to procure some information about the development of the music video, so you can expand that section if you want. ResPM  (T&#x1F508; &#x1F3B5;C) 15:29, 15 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Yeah I figured so from the "via" but it's gotta be a rel. 2ndary source or no dice, y'know? I was actually going through Wayback archives of the Travis website myself last night to see if I could find the one the fansite was referencing, but hadn't come across anything as yet when I left the above msg, so I'm glad you found it. Re the MV section, idk how strict or not another editor will be when they review the page, since primary sources (and the info they support) can easily be contested (and removed altogether) for various reasons, but if there's any acceptable secondary coverage of it you can in the meantime, that would give you a better leg to stand on. Will take a look in a bit when I'm more awake—woke up not that long ago and only firing on two cylinders rn. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 21:23, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Lead & Critical Reception
The lead section seems a bit long and overly detailed. Granted, it's only three paragraphs, but they are pretty meaty. A lot of minor details do not really belong in the lead. For example, "although retrospective reviews have been more mixed, with British website NME calling it a "characterless mandolin dirge" in 2005." Judging by the well-written Critical Reception section, NME is the only negative review out there and including it in the lead casts a somewhat negative slant. I'd remove this and other details, if the article is to be considered for GA. Any more thoughts? Leoseliv (talk) 18:29, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, the paragraphs do seem a bit "meaty" now that you point it out. If you could, would you please take a look at this revision and tell me if the information provided in the lead there is satisfactory? It's the edit immediately preceding the expansion. ResPM  (T&#x1F508; &#x1F3B5;C) 19:34, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, as far as the lead is concerned, that 'pre-expanded' revision is better and more concise. But even then, I would cut down on some detail, for example in the the last para - the music video. Is that TOTP performance really worth mentioning in the lead? Was it that significant? The bit about the then format precluding live performances definitely has to go - it's sufficient to cover it in the corresponding Music Video section. Don't get me wrong, it's a good article but I think it can be made better for GA and, perhaps, FA nominations. Leoseliv (talk) 20:55, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I've tweak the lead accordingly, but I'm going to keep the TOTP bit for now since it was a memorable send-up. If I receive this suggestion a second time, I'll remove it. Thanks for your feedback. ResPM  (T&#x1F508; &#x1F3B5;C) 21:10, 29 April 2021 (UTC)