Talk:Singing school

Authors get acquainted
Hi, I'm the original author of this page. I'm the son of a singing school teacher in the Church of Christ tradition.

This page probably reflects more about the religious tradition of singing schools than the Sacred Harp tradition. If there is more to be noted due to Sacred Harp, I'd love to have it added.

Jdavidb 15:56, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * Hi, David. I'm glad to see you start this page. I have from "family tradition" been involved in seven-shape and Sacred Harp singings since childhood, though in adulthood I've gravitated almost solely to Sacred Harp. But most of my singing school experience was in seven-shape gospel music as a young person in east Texas. Where did your father teach?

Thanks for joining in! I'm glad to have someone who knows more about Sacred Harp who can provide input, as well. I've rarely met anyone who had good knowledge about both traditions.

My father taught in schools descended from the Texas Normal Singing school at Sabinal, Texas, including Texas Normal itself. His two main works were a school he himself established further north in Texas and the Southeastern Singing School in Alabama, founded by a student from Sabinal. History of Texas Normal Singing school is here. Jdavidb 16:17, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the link. We probably should put in a link to it under "singing schools" in the article. Did you ever hear of Robert S. Arnold? I think he was a member of the Christian church (though I'm not sure). I know he wasn't a cappella only. Anyway, he taught a number of singing schools in my area when I was a small boy. - Rlvaughn 04:14, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

"Culturally rather than religiously"?

 * I would like to recommend that this sentence be modified in some way: "While Sacred Harp usually involves music with a religious theme, most participants relate to the singing culturally rather than religiously." While this is not necessarily inaccurate, it does tend to minimize the religious significance of Sacred Harp to a large number of its participants. The co-mingling of "cultural" and "religious" is so great among "traditional" singers that its hard to separate them. A great number of the newcomers to Sacred Harp are drawn in by its musical significance to them, though they may also share the religious significance and grow to become a part of the culture of Sacred Harp. Just wanted to post these thoughts and get your interaction.

Thanks for mentioning this; I didn't completely understand. Please feel free to modify the article accordingly. Jdavidb 16:17, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * I'm also going to try and find some external links to singing schools. I think this would be appropriate to the article. Perhaps you will know of some as well. Keep up the good work. - Rlvaughn 21:55, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

List of singing school teachers
In the middle of making some changes, I conceived of making a list of singing masters (singing school teachers). On reflection, that might not be such a good idea, and could easily get out of hand (become way too long). I'll not remove it for now, though; I'd like to get some input from others. - Rlvaughn 03:39, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * My immediate tendency was to add a bunch of names, so maybe you're right that it could get out of hand. Might still be a good idea, though.


 * One possibility might be, if it gets too long, to make a separate list of singing school teachers. There are lots of other lists on Wikipedia. I added that section on the spur of the moment, without a clear criteria. But I believe all on the list would fit this criteria - they dedicated much of their life to teaching singing schools, they wrote and compiled music/songs, they printed song books (and they are all deceased) - in other words, they were involved simultaneously at several levels.


 * I'm not quite sure what distinguishes a "singing master." My father is certainly an accomplished singing school teacher, but has never been referred to by that title.  A school I attended the last two years (propsed to my fiance there :) ) is reported as being run by "the son of a singing master."


 * The use of "singing master" is probably, for the most part, a term from the singing school movement of the past. I'm not really sure what it would take to constitute a "singing master". As I said, I came up with that section idea on the spur of the moment - "singing masters" just sounded a little more exclusive that "singing school teachers". Even I've done a little bit of singing school type work in churches.


 * I also immediately felt the desire to mention several of the remaining singing schools from the church of Christ I know, but resisted for fear that this, too, could get out of hand. I'll probably add them at some point, but for now I want to focus on adding content.  One thing I might add would be a description of a typical day at a singing school. Jdavidb 16:17, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * I'm an information sort of person, so I don't think you can get "too much information". But, if a Wikipedia article gets too long, it gets hard for some people (browsers?) to edit, and needs to be broken out into smaller articles. I've only worked on one that got "too long" - the Anabaptist article.


 * The "typical day" idea is a good one, in my opinion. - Rlvaughn 04:14, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

"Culturally rather than religiously"? Part II
Hi Rlvaughn and Jdavidb--

While reading this article for the first time I noticed:

"While Sacred Harp usually involves music with a religious theme, most participants relate to the singing culturally rather than religiously."

and later noticed Rlvaughn's remark on this passage, and so I decided to go ahead and take it out. The sentence doesn't seem necessarily true to me. The principal books of the Sacred Harp (Cooper and Denson) most definitely "relate to the music" religiously, and some traditional singers (for example, as interviewed in Buell Cobb's book) make it clear that they participate in singings in a spirit of religious feeling. Regional and state singings, even outside the traditional Sacred Harp area, usually include a number of prayers.

I enjoyed the article and think it is a useful contribution. Cordially, Opus33 17:04, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Truett-McConnell College correction
Hello. My name's David and I'm a librarian at Truett-McConnell College (have been since mid-2004).

I just wanted to mention that I have corrected the spelling of the college's name (it was originally inputted as "Truett-McConnel Junior College") and dropped the "Junior" as it is now a four-year college (first four year degrees awarded in May 2005).YoungTrek 16:06, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

excellent article
Very good! I would love to see some elaboration of the historical issues surrounding "regular singing" versus the "usual way". In fact I would love to see an entire article on "the old way" of singing, if anyone feels up to it. Amity150 02:16, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Rewriting intro
I rewrote the intro. so that it would reflect the topics at hand, that is:


 * what is a singing school?
 * who runs them?
 * singing schools often involve shape notes
 * singing schools usually don't offer academic credit

I hope this makes it read a bit more smoothly. I tried not to change any content, though. Opus33 (talk) 01:36, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

List of singing masters
What exactly is the significance of this list? The term is not explained in the article, and the list only hangs by a thread of 'somebody who sings'. Could somebody who knows about the topic please help to develop it? -- Ohconfucius ¡digame! 06:59, 27 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm puzzled by this comment--the term "singing master" is explained in the article. And the list is not of "somebody who sings", it is of people who teach or taught other people to sing in a singing school.  Could you perhaps read over the article again and then return to this page with your recommendations?  Opus33 (talk) 15:35, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Clarification, please
I have enjoyed participating in a couple of conventions, as well as various ones of the regular singings held around Los Angeles, though not recently, as my schedule got too crowded. I do hope to be able to return some day, though. I made several minor edits, just for clarity & grammaticality. [hmmm... is there actually such a word?] But there are two places in the Curriculum section where I'm not sure I understand what's being said, so I don't want to change them & risk making them wrong.

"The emphasis is on teaching newcomers and advanced musicians the note system and traditions of Sacred Harp." It seems to me that if a person wants or needs to be taught the note systems & Sacred Harp traditions, then they could be classified as a newcomer, whether they have other musical training or not, right? If so, then we could just delete "and advanced musicians." Then we might add something like "... teaching newcomers, with or without other musical training, the note system..." Would that work?

"Pitch pipes are sometimes used in individual classes for brief practice." I don't understand - used by Primitive Baptists instead of pitching by ear? Used by Southern Gospel schools instead of a piano? "in individual classes" - in some classes, but not others? As opposed to being used in the whole school? "for brief practice" - but they wouldn't be used for a longer practice? For a practice, but not in some other setting?

Thanks for a great article. I learned a lot by reading it. Mpwrmnt (talk) 10:46, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

And here's another question: This sentence "Camp Fasola, which was founded in 2003, is an attempt by Sacred Harp enthusiasts to establish a permanent annual singing school." seems to imply that they have not yet been successful in their endeavor, but it seems to me that since it has been held annually every year for 15 years, they HAVE succeeded. If you agree, perhaps we could change it to read, "Camp Fasola, which was founded in 2003, is an annual singing school established by Sacred Harp enthusiasts." What do you think? Mpwrmnt (talk) 11:10, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

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What/where is Port Elizabeth?
The page has a list of singing schools in Port Elizabeth, but there's no explanation as to what Port Elizabeth is. An online search tells me it's a city in South Africa, but that's clearly wrong since all the places on the list are in the United States. Could someone please add some context explaining this bit? Thank you! Clarissa Peterson (talk) 23:44, 9 September 2023 (UTC)