Talk:Sipilä Cabinet

Proposal of vine and bear - Responsible Pays (fi aiheuttaja maksaa)
Alko is the state owned alcoholic beverage retailing monopoly in Finland. State collects the most alcohol selling profits and has monopoly in costs. The government of Sipilä want to allocated larger profits for the retailers from alcohol selling. The Responsible Pays - principle (fin aiheuttaja maksaa) is widely approved. Freedom is responsibility. This would require that the cost of alcohol consumption (additional cost of police, health care etc.) will be allocated to the alcohol sellers including retailers, restaurants and ship companies sailing in Finland. How is Responsible Pays -principle (aiheuttaja maksaa) argumented in Finland and included in the government proposal? Watti Renew (talk) 17:25, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

TAG: Extensive bias or disproportional coverage
Two thirds of the article contains nitpicked details and disputable headlines to describe the subject, a normal and functional cabinet in the most negative tone possible. The article contain little or no balancing facts to provide a sane picture of the subject. All the selectively negative content has been added by a single Finnish editor, previously banned using another user name. --Caygill (talk) 19:07, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Did some cleaning, much remains. --Caygill (talk) 19:43, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Conflicts of Interest
User:Caygill I point out of your removal following:
 * Members of Government gave the list of Conflicts of Interest in 2015. Hallituksen sidonnaisuudet In the start of Sipilä Case December 2016: Sipilä gave additional information of his Conflict of Interests several times which were published elsewhere than the official State reporting. In this sense it became clear that the law is not sufficient to provide needed list of Conflicts of Interest of government for the State reporting in 2015. Equal to the election funding reports, it seems that there are no punishments in place if MPs do not report correct their conflicts of interests. However, the administration law does clearly deny to act if there is a Conflict of Interests. Watti Renew (talk) 17:29, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

More of the Sipilä case REF:  Watti Renew (talk) 17:46, 30 January 2017 (UTC)


 * These nitpicks are not a relevant part of the coverage or events under the Sipilä Cabinet, especially in an article which is very limited in its scope. Again, I have difficult to assume your good intent, but I try. The: sidonnaisuus or jääviyys doesn't equal conflict of interest. --Caygill (talk) 07:52, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Panama Papers
User:Caygill I point out of your removal following:
 * Based on Panama Papers the Parliament demanded to cut down tax evasion In Finland. In April 2016 there was in Finland 12 public official to work on it and in Sweden 200 public officials. Eduskunta yksimielinen Panama-papereista: Hallituksen suitsittava veronkiertoa 5.4.2016 Numbers show that Sipilä government has not allocated satisfactorily resources compared to Sweden to cut down tax evasion in Finland. Watti Renew (talk) 17:36, 30 January 2017 (UTC)


 * May 2016 300 world leading economists signed appeal: Tax havens have no advantages. According to Oxfam even if the rich could avoid taxes with them it will be on expense of others. Ekonomer kritiserar skatteparadis Swedish TV 10.5.2016


 * Anne Berner, who serves as Minister of Transport and Communications, serves on the board of a Luxembourg firm involved in tax planning. This is the first time a Finnish minister has been known to have been involved in such a company. Minister on board of tax haven fir 5.9.2015 Ministeri Berner mukana veroparatiisiyhtiössä Liikenne- ja viestintäministeri Anne Berner oli pitkään hallituksen jäsen luxemburgilaisessa yhtiössä 15.9.2015


 * What on earth is the relevance between the "Panama Papers" and the Sipilä Cabinet? And the Anne Berner link is an outright lie, which has been now clarified in her article after your kind attempt to smear also this part of the cabinet. As I've already stated, your behavior, as such, is disruptive. I wont go into your bans. --Caygill (talk) 07:46, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Traffic policy
The section added about the Sipilä Cabinet's traffic policy is factually incorrect and merely stating opinions. This addition seem to be a continued effort by one editor in intruding negative bias into articles related to the current cabinet. As such, this is is very unfortunate.--Caygill (talk) 08:17, 31 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks, also in my opinion this needs more clarification. Minister Berner argued need for traffic policy based on need to decline climate change gas emissions. Unlike in Germany, Berner investigation demanded higher decline in traffic emissions of Finland compared to buildings and energy. It was stated that emission decline in traffic is easier than in other sectors. In 2014 total emissions (million tn CO2-eq) were 62.8 of which land traffic 4.2 sea traffic 3.1 and air traffic 3.2. Did I understand correct that Berner states that land, sea and air traffic emissions must be declined faster than from other sector? In public discussion is not pointed out this far that emission load from both sea traffic and air traffic is almost equal to land traffic. The total traffic GHG emissions in Finland were (million tn CO2-eq) Suomen kasvihuonekaasupäästöt 1990–2011
 * 1990 - 12.8
 * 2011 - 13.2
 * Watti Renew (talk) 14:28, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Germany's total greenhouse gas emissions need to be reduced by at least 55 percent compared to 1990 by 2030 where reduction in transport will be 40 % compared to 66 % in buildings and 62 % in energy. Climate Action Plan 2050 (Germany) Executive Summary Watti Renew (talk) 14:30, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Chembolis versus travel in India
Children of Sipilä own 5 % of Chempolis via investment company Fortel Invest. Sipilä has founded Fortel investment in 1995 and sold his share to his children in June 2012. Common principle in Finland is that no  conflict of interests is accepted in public issues. Sipilä did not inform his involvement in Chemopolis company. [http://yle.fi/uutiset/3-9396645 1. Pääministeri Sipilän ympärillä kuohuu taas: Jättitilaus Intiasta herätti jääviysepäilyt – näin tapahtumat etenivät] YLE 10.1.2017 [http://yle.fi/uutiset/3-9395183 2. Hallinto-oikeuden emeritusprofessori: "Ratkaisevaa on, millä tavoin Sipilä on osallistunut asian eteenpäin viemiseen Intiassa" Turun yliopiston hallinto-oikeuden emeritusprofessori Heikki Kullan mielestä pääministeri Juha Sipilän tuorein lobbaussotku on mutkikas] 10.1.2017
 * since non where to disclose. Sipilä's children are not children, but established and independent entrepreneurs. Secondly, the export promotion by "Team Finland" was open to every company willing to participate. Thirdly, a new 100 million export deal was both objectively and subjectively in the interest of the nation. Fourthly, since no wrong-doings has been established, this matter carries no relevance beyond weekly headlines clicks.--Caygill (talk) 19:46, 13 February 2017 (UTC)


 * News is important since it has large media interest internationally. It involves two juridical investigations which are rare in respect to all prime ministers of Finland. In English Wikipedia it offers everyone an opportunity to international comparison what is considered acceptable in different countries. Therefore, the background and outcome has wide public interest and should be published in Wikipedia. Watti Renew (talk) 17:17, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Trafigura, part-owner of state majority Terrafame mine.
Since this was added, and then removed. The cited article closes with "Ylen selvityksessä ei löytynyt merkkejä laittomasta toiminnasta. Veroparatiisiyhtiön perustaminen ja omistaminen ovat laillista." - nothing illegal found. --Caygill (talk) 23:02, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Sipilä government objectives
Please include in the text following:

As Paul Krugman have critics in his books about the USA right wing targets:

Sipilä government target has been constantly to lower the taxes for the rich and reduce the public expenses including all welfare services public education, elderly persons, unemployment support, public health care costs and the rights for the minority groups. Most proposals of the Sipilä government fit this model.

Sipilä aims to change all public services with commercial ones claiming them to be cheaper, faster and better quality. In his health care model public services will be competing with public services. According to Parliament opposition (according to TV picture  from the parliament) tax payers will pay the work place health care and the rich persons commercial health care, as paid by them this far, while rest of the people will have lower health care services as total cost will remain the same. This is promoted by the initiative that public health is obliged to take all patients but commercial health care center does not have this obligation. Most of the biggest commercial health care centers are known to use tax avoidance. The support of tax avoidance is one of the main objectives of Sipilä government and Centre Party (Finland).

Sipilä government intends to lower the right for Swedish language, official language in Finland. True Finns and National Coalition Party youth made a citizen initiative that Swedish education would be voluntary at school in future. According to president Tarja Halonen the fight against Swedish language is in conflict with Finnish constitutional rights. Watti Renew (talk) 17:52, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Taxation and parliament salary
Caygill you have made two deletions in this article: 
 * Helsingin Sanomat reported in 2015 that three persons paid zero tax of €400 000–700 000 annual pensions in Portugal: Matti Halmesmäki (Kesko), Kim Gran (Nokian Renkaat) and Sakari Tamminen (Rautaruukki)
 * Finnish Memebers of Parliament will receive 3.2% salary increase in 2018.

In my opinion the data deserves place in Wikipedia. Would you accept it after reading my argumentations:
 * there are reliable sources Verifiability
 * Taxation is one of the main sources of funds to finance the cabinet politics. The point that high income pensions paid by the Finnish state have zero tax rate is interesting by many readers. These persons were well known directors of large stock exchange companies as referred in the text. In my opinion both Cabinet, parliament and the companies in question are responsible for the avoidance of tax. Such a piece of information should in my opinion not be hidden by Wikipedia. In the end sitting cabinet is responsible of the state taxation politics.
 * This Cabinet made many financial cuts for ordinary citizens life. Therefore it deserves place to remember that the politicians increased their own income. In the end sitting cabinet is responsible of the parliament income politics. Watti Renew (talk) 16:01, 29 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Your new user account's editing consists almost exclusively of expanding articles with negative and irrelevant trivia, to create a wider narrative of wrongdoings and corruption. This is not constructive behavior nor doesn't improve the quality of the articles. Feel free improve the articles, but Wikipedia is not a personal blogging platform. --Caygill (talk) 12:29, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

TAG: systematic bias
The article is heavily weighted to cover even minor negative news coverage. The discourse is also not neutral in many places. Although reception, criticisms and any major events should be part of the article, the current text is not up to the standards of this platform. --Caygill (talk) 12:48, 10 May 2019 (UTC)