Talk:Sitting Bull/Archive 1

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This article overlooks some significant events in the life of Tatanka Yotanka (the Sitting Bull) a great spiritual man, and a great leader of men. In particular the article skips over the Treaty of Fort Laramie (1868) which gave the "Paha Sapa" (the Black Hills), a place of great spiritual importance for the Sioux, to the Sioux in perpetuity. In addition, the US Government pledged to protect “the Plains tribe’s, ‘absolute and undisturbed use and occupation’ of their reservations, to remove any settlers, and punish any U.S. citizens causing injuries to Indians.” [Brown, Dee, Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West (New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1971), 202.]

The U.S. Government broke the Treaty of Laramie in 1874 by sending 1,200 troops under Lieutenant Colonel George Armstrong Custer to: “prospect for gold in the Black Hills, the discovery of which [brought] white prospectors pouring into the area.” [Brown, Dee, Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West (New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1971), 202.] In retaliation the Sioux killed or expelled the intruders from their sacred lands, as they were entitled to do under the treaty. [Brown, Dee, Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West (New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1971), 276.] This was the spark that led to an escalation of the conflict between the U.S. Government and the Sioux, and it was clearly the U.S. Government that had violated the treaty their agent signed at Fort Laramie just six years later.

In addition, this article fails to recognise that perhaps Tatanka Yotanka's the greatest skill was to bring together a confederacy of the Sioux, Cheyenne, and Arapaho nations to face the three columns of the U.S. Army in June of 1876, an army that outnumbered and with a massive advantage in fire-power. The Army's intention was to encircle the entire Sioux Nation with their superior numbers because the Sioux had much faster ponies and they had demonstrated the ability to strike and evade pursuit.

General Alfred Terry led one of the columns, and on June 25th he dispatched Lieutenant Colonel Custer and his Seventh Cavalry to the south end of the Little Big Horn Valley. Custer had boasted that he could wipe out the entire Sioux Nation with a single battalion, and it was ironic that he was in command of a battalion on that day in June when he attempted to redeem his tarnished career by single-handedly irradicating an entire village of Sioux men, women and children. He split his battalion into two to cut off the Sioux's retreat, but he miscalculated the numbers he was facing and his command was killed, and the only reason the other half of his battalion did not suffer the same fate, was the arrival of General Terry. Some hero this Custer.

Finally, this article fails to comment on Tatanka Yotanka's self-imposed exile in Canada. The Queen gave Tatanka Yotanka and his people temporary refuge, but Canada refused to provide him permanent santuary in spite of Tatanka Yotanka's pleas to Prime Minister John A. MacDonald. Instead the Northwest Mounted Police would not let the Sioux travel to where they could hunt, and as a the buffalo had been all but wiped out by the whites, they were starved into submission and returned to the U.S. under duress. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.207.115.142 (talk) 05:04, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Thoughts on expansion and need for rewriting
What the heck is going on here? Why does the Sitting Bull article end with his childhood? Why does the introduction sum up his whole life and the proper article then only mention his childhood? I think the article should also say something on the historical importance of Sitting Bull and not just stake out biographical facts. There are lots of good photos of Sitting Bull - why is there only one in this article? Yours sincerely,Yeah. 4th March 2006
 * "Why does the introduction sum up his whole life and the proper article then only mention his childhood?" It was deleted. I restored it. Ashibaka tock 15:57, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

This article has been tagged for a rewrite for a couple of months now, and there have been some complaints as to its accuracy. It includes some speculative, flawed, hoaxish and unencyclopedic information – and it is a frequent target of unreverted vandalism. I suggest we strip out the sections "Childhood" and "Involvement" (better stub-standard than sub-standard), then nominate it for Article Improvement Drive. I know that is radical, but the amputated parts will grow back quite quickly, but without infections. Sitting Bull is a great historical figure, and his Wikipedia entry deserves featured-article standard. Unless there are any protests, I will proceed and strip the article, then nominate it for improvement. If my suggestion is not acceptable, then lets leave it as it is, but at least it should be nominated for improvement. --Ezeu 18:54, 18 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Please! I've been wanting to do it for a while, but I'm just not bold enough... 71.96.234.140 05:10, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Good idea.--62.158.73.244 01:59, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I have done what I suggested above. I may have removed some correct and/or important information. In you reckon I have, feel free to reinsert that information. And please, if you have anything you want to add or change, be bold and do so. --Ezeu 01:38, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

To overcome the errors in this article and lack of information, I have put an expand tab at the beginning of the article. If anyone has any questions, please reply on my talk page. Wikipedia Stubmechanic 08:42, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I have had a go at rewriting this Lukewalsh123417 nov 2006

I've made a lot of minor grammar and arrangement edits, which I hope improves things. Please help out by continuing the refinement. LightYear 07:23, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I saw a request at the League of Copyeditor's page for help with the article. Here's my take on how I might rewrite the "Early Life" section...

Sitting Bull was born around 1831 on the Grand River at a place in present-day South Dakota that the Lakota tribe called "Many Caches", named for food storage pits that helped the tribe survive the winter. He was given the birth name Tatanka-Iyotanka, which describes a bull bison sitting intractably on its rear legs. Translated to English, Tatanka-Iyotanka means Sitting Bull, and it is this name that became famous towards the end of his life.

Sitting Bull first encountered American soldiers in June of 1863, when the Army mounted a broad campaign in retaliation for the Santee Rebellion in Minnesota, in which Sitting Bull’s people played no part.

The following year, his tribe clashed with U.S. troops at the Battle of Killdeer Mountain. The battle was a decisive victory for the Army, largely because of the devastating effects of their artillery.

I tightened up the prose by removing some redundant words without changing the meaning, and changed haunches (possibly an unfamiliar word to people who don't speak English as a first language) to rear legs. I didn't make the changes in the article itself. I wanted opinions first. Maybe my changes make the text too dry. Cheers, Itsfullofstars 01:45, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Well done. Better flow than my attempt, but loses none of the meaning that I've seen in the various revisions. I do believe "haunches" is better in this case though, since it describes the area at the back of the animal naturally used for sitting, not just the legs. I don't believe it is any more unfamiliar than "intractably". Missing a couple of wikilinks too. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by LightYear (talk • contribs) 01:10, 24 January 2007 (UTC).

I agree, a rewrite is necessary -- This section, under "fame" reades poorly and appears to requlire further evidence or citation
 * "...Although it is unknown if this was true, the Native American took this as evidence that he was still regarded as a great chief.


 * In his trips throughout the country, Sitting Bull realized that his former enemies were not limited to the small military and settler communities he had encountered in his homelands, but were in fact a large and highly-advanced society. He realized that the Native Americans would be overwhelmed if they continued to fight." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.92.129.125 (talk) 02:24, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Upon finding the article, there wasn't anything about Sitting Bull's life before 1876, at which time he was 45. So I added a bunch of pretty basic information about him and the growth of his importance to the Hunkpapa and his rising animosity toward the government and reorganized a bit. I also just cleaned up this talk page so all the stuff about rewrites was in one place and I moved some other topics so that people can easily navigate to the topic they want to comment about. I have been using Utley's standard text about Sitting Bull for most of the information, although I also have Vestal's biography (but it's a little outdated in light of the Lance and the Shield). I've been adding citations and outside sources as I go along, but I'm a bit of a citation-freak, so if you think there's stuff that needs to be de-cited, go for it. I hope I haven't stepped on anybody's toes in doing all this. poroubalous (talk) 03:05, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree. I had just finished reading a wonderful article on Bull's dealings in Canada with Inspector Walsh and company only to find that this whole part of Bull's history is not even talked about here. From what I have read it shows a nice balance to the blood shed that comes with the other events listed here, especially considering that it showed that he was a person who could be dealt with in a civilized way and not necessary with force. I would add the addition myself, but honestly, my thinking and writing is quite squirely and to take on a task like that would take me months. If someone with good writing skills would like to tackle his years in Canada, it would be greatly appreciated. Unfortunately I only have two links remaining regarding the history: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/nwmp-pcno/001032-119.02-e.php?&person_id_nbr=62095&page_sequence_nbr=1&&page_id=62095_1&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&PHPSESSID=usqv6isnkfvq22ipgdv324spe5 is the begininning of the official documents from the Canadian government, start with when Walsh first entered Bull's camp. (only pages 1 - 5, after which the government records jump to the order to move Walsh away from Bull. Here is the second article I ran across talking about Walsh's experiences with Bull that deals from the inital encounter to why and the reasons behind why he went back to the US and his death. http://www.historynet.com/sitting-bull-and-the-mounties.htm LittleMatchGirl (talk) 15:51, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Sitting Bull's name and title of article
I read somewhere in an old British enyclopedia. He was the son of 'Jumping Bull' this reference doesnt appear in Funk & Wagnalls surprisingly but might appear in Britannica. He was the son of Tatanka Psica, Jumping Badger (sometimes known as Jumping Bull or Sitting Bull), from http://nativeamericanrhymes.com/chiefs/sittingbull.htm

Shouldn't this article be under the heading Tatanka Iyotake and a REDIRECT command be placed under Sitting Bull? I know that 'Tatanka Iyotake' is not the widely know denomination but the other one smells to me sort of nineteenth-centurish, not very adequate for this century. Keeping this kind of translations seems to me very picturesque but quite outlandish for the 21st century. Why was never Julio Iglesias rendered into English as July Churches, Severiano Ballesteros as Harsh-like Crossbowmen or Plácido Domingo as Placid Sunday? - Piolinfax 23:26, 18 Dec 2003 (UTC)


 * Please see Naming conventions (common names) - Hephaestos 23:27, 18 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Yes, I know that stuff, and I don't have any problem to comply with it. It is just that I still don't understand why a person's name has to be changed into something he would probably never have accepted and keep it for such a long time. I find a redirect option more fair to the individual. I, personally would like to be shown a real name of a person (unless that person decided, for any of a number of possible reasons, to change it). I agree with the benefits of conventions for such complex works as this encyclopaedia but I think that conventions sometimes should be a bit flexible to allow certain complexities of human reality to take place. In the wiki in Spanish, the same thing as here has been decided but, anyway, I just find it plainly unfair. Anyway, I acknowledge that Wikipedia's option is sensible in some sense. -Piolinfax 23:49, 18 Dec 2003 (UTC)


 * I understand your concerns and share them somewhat myself, but I tend to think that guideline is the only thing stopping people from instituting articles at whatever their "favorite" name might be, which would be chaotic. I tweaked the intro to this one a bit. - Hephaestos 23:54, 18 Dec 2003 (UTC)


 * Yeah. I like it (the intro) better now. Ta, Hephaestos! - Piolinfax 02:25, 19 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Just a question, is the spelling "Tatanka Iyotaka" more correct or is it another accepted spelling? This is what the Cheyenne River Sioux's website has as Sitting Bull's Lakotan name. Could this be dialect differences?--okieman1200 07:22, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

I changed the original words in the first sentence from "Sitting Balls" to "Sitting Bull" as the first set of words was obviously from a funny vandalized version. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DrDHMenke (talk • contribs) 18:39, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

The Battle of Little Bighorn
I'm wondering if the term 'massacre' to describe the killing of Custer's cavalry is NPOV. It has certainly been described as a massacre historically, but doesn't seem any more of one than any number of historical battles with high casualties. Saforrest 13:12, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

I dont really think that statements of peoples intentions such as, "They did not mean to kill him, but when he refused to go and his warriors attempted to rescue him he was killed." , really belong in an encyclopedia. 68.71.35.93 21:55, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

I added a couple of lines about Custer's fame in order to put in to a bit more context the public's sentiment and the government response at the time. I felt that an understanding of Custer's popularity and the impact on the public consciousness of seeing his unit utterly defeated in the graphic manner that it was communicated at the time was important to understanding the government's response and the popular support for it. I kept it short, two or three sentences, and added the two references from which I got the information. Srajan01 16:15, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Leadership role and titles
Shouldn't his title not be clergyman but shaman? Clergy/clergyman is usually reserved for Christians. See http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/clergyman --Bodhirakshita 10:40, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Obviously it should be shaman and not clergyman - whoever put in clergyman has probably been doing some serious kitten huffing. 19 March 2006

He was not a leader in the sense that it is generally understood. Plains Indian "chiefs" were more like ambassadors appointed to speak to the washichu (because they would come in and say "Can I speak to your chief"). The real leaders varied from day to day and project to project (religious ceremony, hunting, trading, raids on other tribes, defense, natural disasters, etc.). People would listen to whoever made the most sense to them at the time. There were highly respected honor societies and warrior societies that a person might join, but these guys were not leaders either. The book that best describes how this worked is Mari Sandoz' Crazy Horse. Like many others, Sitting Bull seems to have "led" mostly through inspiration. He was not a political or war leader in any case but a wikchasa wakan (holy person). Any band of Indians might have one or a dozen of those, and there was not a the medicine man, in the same sense that they didn't have the leader. Keep in mind that Indians giving accounts of people and events to ethnologists, historians etc. often used the language they knew their audience wanted to hear, so might say "chief" even though it wasn't exactly that. --Bluejay Young 22:41, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I suggest that you add this distinction to the article, and since you seem to know something about the man help get this poor article into shape. Let's do Sitting Bull a favour here and get this page fixed! So long, -62.158.108.130 16:57, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Errors and things that need to be changed
Sitting Bull was not sent to the Standing Rock reservation with the rest of his people following his surrender. He was again lied to. He was sent to Fort Randall as a prisoner of war, where he stayed for 2 years before finally returning to his people at Standing Rock. In addition, he did take part in the Battle of Little Big Horn, though not as a war chief. He did not kill Custer, but was still present for the battle. Please see "Sitting Bull: Champion of the Sioux" by Stanley Vestal, published 1957.

--

Is it just me, or was Sitting Bull born the same year he laid siege to Fort Rice? Also, he apparently first encountered American soldiers five years before he was born. Is there some way to better reconcile the year of his birth?Ereid01 12:12, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Someone put profanity in this section - "horny" "shitting" "jacked off." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.114.180.173 (talk) 17:25, 15 April 2007 (UTC).

Pretty sure they didn't sing Mr. Roboto at his funeral. 129.105.203.249 21:54, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

KAWAII DESU NE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitting_Bull#Victory_at_Little_Big_Horn_and_the_aftermath ZOMG I didn't know that Naruto took place in the 19th century! Wikipedia sucks. 02:55, 25 May 2007 (UTC)02:55, 25 May 2007 (UTC)~

Counting two cats, the word "Native American/s" is in the article 15 times. It would be more accurate to include it zero times.
 * BtoAundulling 09:25, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Citecheck template removed
The citecheck template is for articles that may contain inappropriate citations, such as quotes taken out of context. I see not talk page discussion for the template on this article. Please go to Cleanup resources if another template is needed and discuss the matter on the talk page. Durova 02:23, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Jumping Bull was named Sitting Bull, but gave the Sitting Bull we know his name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.104.206.20 (talk) 03:34, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Things that need to be added
A map of his original place, Canada migration, reservations, military campaigns,... would be nice. The Buffalo Bill tour is not so important so you could leave it out. --84.20.17.84 10:25, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

What was his wife's name ,or did he have any other family? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.119.19.164 (talk) 22:10, 13 February 2007 (UTC).

I added information about Sitting Bull's family in the latest changes. poroubalous (talk) 03:05, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

-

Another bibliographical reference could be "Killing Custer: The Battle of Little Bighorn and the Fate of the Plains Indians", by James Welch with Paul Steckler, published by Norton in 1994 and Penguin in 1995. I have read several accounts of Sitting Bull's later life and death, but none as good as this. The author, James Welch, was a Blackfeet, and wrote "Winter in the Blood" and "Fools Crow". I wish I could have met him. If I hear no objections, I will add this reference.

Work with Buffalo Bill
The article includes "Often asked to address the audience, he frequently cursed them in his native tongue to the wild applause of his listeners[citation needed]."

This has the definite flavor of urban legend. It might be true anyway, but it needs a very good citation. If one is not forthcoming fairly soon, I'm scrapping the phrase. It's unfortunate that this uncited (probably actually wrong) excerpt is being featured on the main page. -- Vonspringer (talk) 19:47, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

This story is frequently cited in Historical texts, but the legitimacy is often debated. There are other stories about Plains Indians doing similiar things when encountering whites (i.e. smiling but calling them dogs etc). If you wish to re-include the idea, I have sources to back it up with the caveat that it is uncertain. Huntmog (talk) 16:58, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Good article
This article is well written and well referenced, and an excellent overview of the topic. I was particularly impressed with the breadth of historical coverage. The article meets all of the GA criteria... Johnfos (talk) 23:55, 14 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I just wanted to comment that this article is very well written and I enjoyed reading it. Regards --Npnunda (talk) 02:11, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

SK rating raised
The rating in SK was raised for this article SriMesh | talk  03:39, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Some Points:
Sitting Bull participated in a famous Sun Dance (religious cleansing that took place yearly) just days before the LBG battle. This needs to be described as his resulting vision was a major factor in the Sioux/Cheyenne's fight.

While I am a huge fan of Utley and used him a lot in my Senior Thesis on the Battle of Little Big Horn, it seems as though this article relies a little too heavily on him. A quick glance at the footnotes shows that he is very dominant is the referencing. I have many sources that make the same points that he has, is it ok if I subsitute certain footnotes so that we can get a little more variety? Huntmog (talk) 16:56, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Edits For Proportionality, 7/1/10
I have taken the interpolated edit about the supposed "Cheyenne primacy" out of the Red Cloud's War section where it most emphatically does not belong and placed it with appropriate cautions in the Great Sioux War section, where it does.

"Red Cloud's War" refers as sourced now to a series of military actions taken by Lakota bands led by Red Cloud and Sitting Bull against US targets, mostly forts along the Bozeman Trail, military units protecting these forts, and civilian miners encroaching on traditional Lakota hunting grounds - and to US military and diplomatic initiatives intended to end the conflict. The Lakota are almost exclusively involved in this conflict; Cheyenne participation was minimal.

There has been an unjust neglect of the Cheyenne role in the so-named "Great Sioux War", but only Dr. Liberty in the citation goes so far as to suggest Cheyenne primacy in the view of the Lakota. Overwhelming evidence in the newly-cited sources - these like Liberty's from actual Native American testimony - demonstrates both the implacable enmity felt by the majority of the Lakota toward the whites and the fact that in the federal government's view the Lakota were the primary target and major source of the hostility.

In any event, the interpolation of Dr. Liberty's novel and theoretical argument as factual into a wide range of Plains wars articles is problematic. It deserves mention but in clear proportion to its weight vis-a-vis other scholarly sources.Sensei48 (talk) 16:11, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Religion
Why does the article make no mention of Sitting Bull (and other Sioux) becoming Catholic? Found a NYT archive clip for reference: http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F10811F83E5411738DDDAA0994DC405B8384F0D3 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.238.7.47 (talk) 15:17, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Answering your question...because you haven't put it there. :) Be bold; that is how articles are improved. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—►  ((⊕)) 15:58, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Unclear
"The event occurred when he was 14 years old, and led a charge and struck before the opposing Crow forces could, resulting in victory for the Lakota people without any fatalities."

Huh? --68.83.137.93 (talk) 23:39, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Sitting Bull Catholic?
Hi Wikipedia

Note on your article on Sitting Bull there is the following:

Later in life Sitting Bull embraced the Roman Catholic faith and was baptized by a French-speaking Jesuit priest in 1883.[24][25]

I clicked on the doc titled 25 and it is a rather odd print of a news item... I have researched Sitting Bull's life intensely for the past 8 years and whilst I understand he embraced Christianity in a general sense, I do not believe he embraced the Roman Catholic Faith; I've never read this anywhere, ever.

love your website, thanks,

Karen 175.38.174.114 (talk) 08:48, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Karen, you should consider getting an editor's account. :)


 * Contradictory sources exist:


 * Life of Sitting Bull: And History of the Indian War of 1890-91 (p. 27) by W. Fletcher Johnson has him as Roman Catholic. Collections of the State Historical Society of North Dakota, Volume 1 (p. 280) by the State Historical Society of North Dakota seem to support this.


 * On the other hand, Sitting Bull, champion of the Sioux (p. 309) by Stanley Vestal says he wasn't Catholic...as well as Voices of Wounded Knee (p. 70) by William S. E. Coleman.


 * Maybe other editors can shed some light on this... ⋙–Berean–Hunter—►  11:58, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Birth place wrong!
Could anyone get Sitting Bull's birth place straight? It is claimed as being situated at the Grand River, SD, in most sources (also in this wikipedia article); however, an interview with Sitting Bull's closest living descendants, his great-grandson Earnie LaPointe in particular, has revealed that he was actually born at Yellowstone River, just south of present-day Miles City, MT.

Here's proof of this: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/specialsections/heritage/200711-sittingbull.html?c=y&page=3.

213.162.68.160 (talk) 14:01, 4 October 2011 (UTC) Oct. 4, 2011

No reliable source re: grave dispute
I altered the bio today because a source given did not in fact say anything about an alleged dispute regading the authenticity of the remains moved to Tatanka Iyotake's current grave. Until that claim is reliably sourced, I do not beleive iy belongs in the lede, in any case. SergeWoodzing (talk) 05:50, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Wrong Sitting Bull: File Removed
The Hunkpapa holy man Sitting Bull is not in the picture added to the Gallery today, which I have removed. Note that the legend denotes the man as "Mi-na-kon-you," a transliteration of what we spell in modern English as "Minneconjou." This is in fact the picture of an OGLALLA chief who, to distinguish him from his more famous counterpart, is usually referred to as "Young Sitting Bull." Young SB died at the end of 1876; the more famous SB was killed by police in 1890, leading to the Wounded Knee massacre.

The distinction between the two is clarified by Nebraska historian Marie Sandoz in a compilation called Selected Shorter Writings viewable on GoogleBooks here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=zuQokxhZgP4C&pg=PA104&dq=sitting+bull++country+sandoz&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NnvtTq-_BsjkiALykOmABA&ved=0CEQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=sitting%20bull%20%20country%20sandoz&f=false

Note that it is the Oglalla Younger who goes to Washington, not the older Hunkpapa who was a key figure in the 1876 war and the battle of the Little Bighorn.

This image is being misidentified across the web as a picture of the Hunkpapa, who was a much taller and darker person than the figure depicted here, as the many authentic portraits on Commons and on the web indicate. I am removing this image from the Wikipedia article on the Hunkpapa leader.Sensei48 (talk) 05:25, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Lead section does not make sense
Since about May 2011, as far as I can tell, the second paragraph of the lead section of this article has made no sense because it refers to a battle that has not actually yet been mentioned. At one time the lead section read like this, but then subsequent edits destroyed the sense of the flow. It's not great that a supposedly "good" article should have such a glaring problem in the first couple of paragraphs. Is anyone in a position to fix it? I have no knowledge of this subject and I do not want to be restoring bad information... 86.160.82.245 (talk) 23:16, 1 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I restored some text from that previous version to clarify. Seems like that Little Bighorn should be mentioned there. The text may need more adjusting though. -Fnlayson (talk) 23:41, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Succession Box?
Since he was Chief of the Lakota Tribe, should there not be a Succession Box relating to the position of Chief, and who his predecessor and successor were? The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 22:19, 23 April 2012 (UTC)


 * No, there were more than one chief at a time, leading a different camp. It's not like Sitting Bull was the only one at a single time.  Many times, chiefdom was hereditary anyway and the current Lakota and Dakota no longer have chiefs but elected officials to manage tribal affairs.   on  camera (t)  01:04, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I see, but if each chief had a particular subgroup of the Lakota ("different camp"), we could in that case do a Succession Box based on whichever subgroup he led. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 23:15, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

GAR
This artical needs to be GARed... 209.195.73.82 (talk) 02:35, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

I understand that Sitting Bull was at one point later in life transferred to a reservation in Minnesota. Is this so? There is no mention of Minnesota in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.40.117.97 (talk) 04:25, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Quote by Sitting Bull
"Nothing is so strong as gentleness, nothing is so gentle as real strength". Some links on Google connect this quote to Sitting Bull. Likewise, it was written on an image of him I have been having for years now. Wikipedia however connects this quote to St. Francis de Sales. Anyone here who can clarify this for me. Does any one know if Sitting Bull said these words ? Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.95.72.75 (talk) 10:39, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

regarding the "conversion" section of the article
Sitting Bull, in the image at the top of the article, is clearly wearing a big, giant crucifix and a rosary around his neck. It seems wise to attempt to explain this if he really wasn't Catholic. (though I've seen a lot of sources say he was in the past.)Farsight001 (talk) 22:55, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Not to offend, but may I suggest irony? Wouldn't be unlike him. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 12:41, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * It appears he was given the cruficix by a Catholic priest, according to Stanley Vestal, and thus probably wore it as a courtesy or a badge of honor of some sort. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 01:53, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Sitting Bull's Relatives
Since "Big Foot" is considered a derogatory name under Spotted Elk's page, should we change that under the Relatives section to be Spotted Elk instead?

71.170.0.132 (talk) 06:48, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Can someone explain to me how Sitting Bull and Spotted Elk are half brothers? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hagoodman (talk • contribs) 05:04, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Internal contradictions
The part about the Wild West Show and Annie Oakley doesn’t make sense chronologically. It indicates that Sitting Bull joined the show in 1885, stayed for four months, met Annie Oakley during this time, and symbolically adopted her in 1884. I would love to have been able to edit with a correction, but I can’t since I don’t know what the truth is, only that it can’t be exactly as described here. Could someone who knows this material better please fix it? Tupelo the typo fixer (talk) 21:19, 10 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks for catching that Tupelo. I rearranged some text and added a reference to clarify the chronology. Evenrød (talk) 23:26, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Sitting bull
You have his birthdate as 2007 don't think so — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.187.23.220 (talk) 11:11, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
 * You misread the text. Two footnotes follow a period after the sentence "Sitting Bull was born in Dakota Territory." The next sentence begins, "In 2007, Sitting Bull's great-grandson asserted from family oral tradition..." Sensei48 (talk) 12:49, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Tobacco Pipe
Perhaps a point of interest regarding the current location of Sitting Bull's tobacco pipe would be welcome in the article. The pipe shown in the "card" image is currently in Santa Fe, New Mexico, in Forrest Fenn's walk-in vault. --Desertphile (talk) 01:20, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Dakota territory (infobox birth place)
Clicking in the link takes you to an article which is about an entity that came into existence at the start of the American Civil War - some 30 years after Sitting Bull's birth. What was the area known as in 1831?--Máedóc (talk) 21:16, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 April 2017
————https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ASitting_Bull&preload=Template%3ASubmit+an+edit+request%2Fpreload&action=edit&section=new&editintro=Template%3AEdit+semi-protected%2Feditintro&preloadtitle=Semi-protected+edit+request+on+17+April+2017&preloadparams%5B%5D=edit+semi-protected&preloadparams%5B%5D=Sitting+Bull# — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.122.73.147 (talk) 17:34, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

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Sitting Bull's Lakota name
This question requires the input of a Lakota language expert, but the article is currently inconsistent

Tȟatȟáŋka Íyotake is given in first section, but later in the Early life it is given as "Tȟatȟáŋka Íyotaŋka".

On a Lakota language forum two responses suggest that Íyotaŋka is not correct http://www.lakotadictionary.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5693.

However the PBS documentary page gives his name as Iyotanka. http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/people/s_z/sittingbull.htm

But a biography by Michael Crummett is entitled Tatanka-Iyotanka: A Biography of Sitting Bull. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Welfairstate (talk • contribs) 09:49, 30 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Sitting Bull's closet living relative, his great-grandson Ernie Lapointe is a fluent native speaker of Lakota and has the name written as simply Tatanka Iyotake. Which is already referenced in footnote 10: .  At some point the name was inserted with the accent marks, etc;  which a common reader of the English language version of this article is going to find difficult to understand. Evenrød (talk) 17:28, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

It isn't the issue of accents, I think these are useful because this is how Lakota is written, but the presence of the ŋ in the Early Life section. I emailed Ernie Lapointe to confirm this, and he told me that Iyotanka is completely wrong. I recommend a change. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Welfairstate (talk • contribs) 09:00, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your work on this. If you want to make that change I will support it.  Evenrød (talk) 18:12, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 10 May 2018
9. Representation in Popular Culture Add "The character, Laughing Bull, from the Japanese anime series, Cowboy Bebop, is heavily inspired by Sitting Bull in character design." IamConfu (talk) 13:52, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. L293D</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b> • <b style="color:#000">✎</b>) 14:27, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Date of Sitting Bull's portrait
The caption of the header portrait dates the photo to 1885, but the source image is named File:Sitting Bull by D F Barry ca 1883 Dakota Territory.jpg". Which date is correct?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Threecardhighlow (talk • contribs) 19:58, 19 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Fixed. Thank you, -  FlightTime  ( open channel ) 20:17, 19 September 2018 (UTC)