Talk:Six Flags Fright Fest

Six Flags Fright Fest
The article states Fright Fest was born at Six Flags over Texas in 1989. This is not factual. It was born at Six Flags AstroWorld in 1986 as Fright Nights, and called Fright Fest from 1987 on. If there is any discussion on this point, please post it here, otherwise I will be back to edit the article in a week or two. Oddjob84 (talk) 15:08, 1 February 2017 (UTC) ✅ Added AstroWorld, with links and citations. Unable to find citation to support Six Flags over Texas claim, will leave for another editor. Oddjob84 (talk) 15:01, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
 * OK, I'm back. I have decided to edit the article and improve it.  The first change has been to add an Attractions Infobox, and the Fright Fest Logo.  I have completed this directly into the Article, as I doubt it will be controversial.  I have made no other changes to the existing text. ✅ My next order of business will be to provide proper in-line citations.  If you have suggestions or objections, please make them below, rather on the Article page.  I will be slow and deliberate about any changes I make going forward, and will post them for discussion below first.  Oddjob84 (talk) 02:16, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

Proposed Changes
1. Add in-line citations. Oddjob84 (talk) 02:18, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Adding citations and locations to the attraction infobox directly to article. No changes to article text.  Oddjob84 (talk) 15:49, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Added citation to Herschend paragraph. Oddjob84 (talk) 01:17, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Adding citations to body of article. Oddjob84 (talk) 14:03, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

2. Since there has been no comment for a week, I am going to fix the Hersch / Herschend problem. The first change will be corrections and hyperlinks, without altering the text. Previous discussion moved below. Oddjob84 (talk) 00:59, 5 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Yikes! My first look for a reference turned this up: (quoting article) "It can also refer to "FrightFest" at the Hersch Family Entertainment parks like Darien Lake...."  It appears there is no "Hersch", but there is a Herschend Family Entertainment who used to operate Darien Lake, but is no longer involved.  http://www.hfecorp.com/ An internet search finds no other notable use of Fright Fest apart from Six Flags.  True there are a few one-off attractions using the name, but I'm skeptical that they should be included here.  I am inclined to eliminate the Hersch sentence from the introduction, and roll the paragraph on Hersch Family Entertainment FrightFest into a new "History" paragraph as a mention, and assuming I can find some reference source for this.  Any discussion?  Oddjob84 (talk) 04:00, 26 February 2017 (UTC)✅

3. Additional venues to be added to text of article (won't fit in infobox, title problems with La Ronde & Great Escape):  Great Escape (amusement park), ref https://www.sixflags.com/greatescape/newsroom/new-fright-fest-2016; Six Flags Discovery Kingdom, ref http://micechat.com/113844-fright-fest-stumbles-six-flags-discovery-kingdom/; Six Flags Mexico, ref https://frightfest.sixflags.com/mexico/; La Ronde, ref https://www.sixflags.com/larondeen/newsroom/new-fright-fest-2016. Oddjob84 (talk) 03:34, 12 March 2017 (UTC)✅

RE: Herschend; only one of their current parks Wild Adventures features a Halloween special event. Terror in the Wild ref http://www.wildadventures.com/Plan-Your-Visit/Special-Events/Terror-in-the-Wild Oddjob84 (talk) 03:34, 12 March 2017 (UTC) HFE thread: Six Flags sells to PARC Management 2007 ref https://web.archive.org/web/20071213091315/http://www.parkworld-online.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/232/Six_Flags_sells_seven_parks.html Oddjob84 (talk) 14:16, 12 March 2017 (UTC) Timeline: Premier Parks buys Six Flags 1998, becomes Six Flags; Six Flags sells Darien Lake & Elitch Gardens to PARC Management 2007; PARC terminated end 2010, Herschend manages 2011-2014; Premier takes over management 2014; Fright Fest operates 1998-2006; returns 2008; Darien changes to Harvest Fest 2015. Oddjob84 (talk) 14:37, 12 March 2017 (UTC) ref http://rochester.kidsoutandabout.com/content/frightfest-darien-lake-weekends-sept-21-oct-14 ref http://www.darienlake.com/harvest-festival  Oddjob84 (talk) 00:37, 13 March 2017 (UTC) ✅

4. Partially undid edit by user: GoneIn60 to infobox. I gather you meant to change "operating" to "open" (no problem), but you also deleted nine references in the process. Some other editor will then come along and delete everything because it isn't properly referenced. Oddjob84 (talk) 01:17, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Oddjob84 – First of all, are you having a problem with statuses getting challenged? If not, then please find another location for those references. We should avoid having inline citations and notes in the status field when possible. It automatically marks the article as having a custom status, when in fact, it doesn't. Also, I checked a couple of your references. What exactly are you using those to support? --GoneIn60 (talk) 02:51, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
 * GoneIn60: I have no problem with challenges of any sort, as long as they respect the efforts of prior editors. Your challenge was essentially technical in nature, which is fine, someone needs to mind the details.  What I did object to was your deleting nine references in the process.  If you didn't like where I put them, you could have moved them.  It took me two weeks to improve this page to a minimum encyclopedic standard, and I would rather not have to return to re-do it.  Your raising the references themselves as an issue seems peevish, but since you have asked:  The references are designed to "prove" that the venues cited are, in fact, Fright Fest sites, and that they are current or recent active participants.  This may not be important to you, but it apparently is to some.  I had to spend considerable time "proving" the venues for Pirates 4-D to two other editors who challenged their veracity.  Oddjob84 (talk) 14:40, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
 * OK, now I see what happened. These apparently weren't cited in the article's body as they should have been, and instead, only existed in the infobox. Let me save you some frustration down the road by letting you in on a little secret...for future reference, avoid adding citations in the infobox except when absolutely necessary. Quite a few parameters are written to accept certain criteria (e.g., numerals, specific words or phrases, etc.). Adding citations and notes can throw these fields off. Like the lead, the infobox is just a summary or reflection of what exists in the article's body, which should already be properly cited. It's often considered redundant to have them in the infobox as well, hence the reason for my swift deletion. I was making this technical change across dozens of articles and didn't take the time to assess mistakes like this.The content for each site seems very minimal and not worthy of the infobox template. It would be better to simply create a table with four columns – Location, Status, Debut year, and Ref (for listing each citation) – doing away with the infobox altogether. This would give the article a cleaner look, IMHO. --GoneIn60 (talk) 20:05, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
 * OK, that's good information on the infobox. I'm new to those, this being the first one I have had occasion to place.  I have tried out a table on Southern Star Amphitheater, and it worked well.  However, while we were discussing this, Ahecht dropped in and reworked the Fright Fest page, and pretty much fixed this problem.  Thanks for the help.  Oddjob84 (talk) 00:51, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Recent Edits
As the three of us collaborated on re-writing this article in March 2017, I thought I would get your opinions on this. The recent series of edits by new user (as of 6 Aug) ChrisGraslie appear to be in good faith, but I think they represent a considerable diminution of the article, and am inclined to revert them. Opinions? Oddjob84 (talk) 17:33, 6 September 2017 (UTC) PAGE''' ]]) 17:44, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Having a table that will eventually list every year of the event at every park is waaaaaay too much information for this article and bordering on trivia. If anything, it should be spun off as a stand-alone list, but I doubt that such a list would be notable enough or well sourced enough to survive AfD. --Ahecht ([[User_talk:Ahecht|'''TALK


 * I saved you the hassle and went forward with the revert. Not only was the list distracting, it was completely unnecessary. A chart/table would have been more appropriate, and references would be needed anyway. In addition, the breaking up of paragraphs into single sentence entries is unencyclopedic. ChrisGraslie can attempt to discuss the proposed changes here if needed. Thanks for the ping. --GoneIn60 (talk) 02:33, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

Proposed Additions Fall 2017
Event Summaries (Current Parks)==

Six Flags St Louis

Event Summaries (Former Parks)==

Six Flags AstroWorld