Talk:Skateboarding/Archive 1

World
Quote: "So skateboard shops started popping up mostly in the west coast then in the East coast until it spread to where you can get a board and anything else you need and not have to travel very far."

There are more places than the country of USA. (This unsigned comment was left by the IP 121.208.47.228)

Sorry if I am doing this wrong. I am new here and am not 100% certain of the rules. I would suggest to add something about WHEELCHAIR Skateboarding. Seems like it could be a subsection of this catagory, as it uses the same ramps and involves many of the same tricks. Recently a young man, 14, from Las Vegas, Aaron Fotheringham became the first to do a backflip in a wheelchair, see a link to Aaron's famous backflip on Google videos:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6912276956901300644

I also have photos of Aaron that I can contribute. If this is of interest to someone who can add it in here, please contact me at EmmerGene AT Yahoo DOT com

Gene

theres nothing about the rise and fall of vert and gator the best vert skater that ever lived. but its an ok article

Anti-skateboarding
I'm kind of surprised there's nothing here about the very common anti-skateboarding attitude amongst non-skaters. If this article is going to be NPOV, it needs to mention this. -- LGagnon 21:29, August 2, 2005 (UTC)
 * Write it - it exists, but I've never experienced it much, except from security guards and cops. TBH, I think it affects you a lot more if you live the entire "skater lifestyle" - which might also be a good idea to mention, though - and I'm far from a stereotypical skater. --Kiand 23:04, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Something along the lines of "Skateboards often receive a lot of criticism, often extending to verbal or even physical abuse, from non-skateboarders while performing (note, thats a crap word for it...) in a public place. This is often based on a highly stereotypical public view of skateboarders as arrogant and careless".
 * Now, thats pretty highty POV as it is, but its something... --Kiand 23:11, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Just did a major rewrite of the paragraph on skateboarding culture - any edits are welcome, I just felt like anything was better than the paragraph that used to be there.Walkerb 17:27, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Salabanzi
I think mention of landing Salabanzi should be made, that is when you land with your legs crossed.
 * That should go to the Skateboarding trick article. Tp 10:30, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Yeah...cause everyone does that...right? Actually you're thinking of Shiloh Greathouse... he's the one who...sort of ... started that around the time that Bastein was 3. He used to do a type of kickflip called the pretzel flip... But it has never been a major trend in skateboarding, so there isn't really any reason to add it.

--Phil August 9th, 2005

Landing cross-foot was not started by Shiloh or Bastein. It's a freestyle trick that's around 30 years old. Steve-g 16:11, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Skaters and Social Groups
I think this subject deserves a section but the current one is just horrible. Skaters have been categorized into their own social groups since the punk-skater style started in the early 1970's. "Metal-head" and "preppy" have just been one of the "trendy" looks skaters have used since then and often many groups have existed simultaneously. In contrary to the current article I would say that poserism has completely lost it's meaning today because the "skater look" has become mainstream fashion and people no longer wear "skater clothes" because they want to be skaters, but instead because pretty much everyone wears them. Tp 07:26, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I would agree. The section definitely needs to be edited.  That said, I don't know what the scope and scale of any expansion should be.  "skaters and social groups" is a broad topic, one that has become even more important with the current developments in modern american pop culture (ie. most people depicted on advertisements take at least some fashion cues from old 'rebel' skateboarder fashion.  I think the section should either be moved into an article about american pop culture or should be changed from what it is now to a somewhat more comprehensive description of what skateboarding has done to American pop culture.Walkerb 17:02, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Skateboarding and Popular Culture
This section seems to change direction about half way through, is it meant to relate more to the public perception of skateboarding? It could be improved by including names of skaters with high public profiles: jason lee, spike jonze, jason dill, maybe even pharell williams from NERD. You could also go into the public perception of ACTUAL skating itself; why granny's hate us so much etc etc. Anyway, just a thought, sorry for sounding like a teacher!

Niall, 12/11/2005

Filming
There is no mention of filming which seems common now. Picture that might be nice to use that I took.

Aluminium
I'm not complaining on any grounds that the policy covers. "Aluminum" is -just wrong-, no two ways about it. The element is called Aluminium and is only spelt that way. Its not like other words which have two seperate spellings in different territories, "Aluminum" is wrong in the US too. These days its a typo, pure and simple. --Kiand 17:01, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Got a source? All the periodic tables at my college spell it "Aluminum". --Liface 17:05, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * They're all wrong then. The only valid spelling, worldwide, is the IUPAC spelling. Same applies for all elements. --Kiand 17:07, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) adopted aluminium as the standard international name for the element in 1990, but three years later recognised aluminum as an acceptable variant. Hence their periodic table includes both, but places aluminium first [7]. IUPAC officially prefers the use of aluminium in its internal publications, although several IUPAC publications use the spelling aluminum.[8] (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum#Spelling) --Liface 18:39, 22 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Kiand, see the manual of style and you will see that "aluminum" is listed as the accepted American version. It's really as simple as that. Kafziel 17:08, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Still wrong. Chart also has "India & Ireland" down as if we have the same variant of English here as half way across the globe, which is also clearly wrong, so thats any chance of accuracy out the window there. The element is named Aluminium, any use of "Aluminum" is as wrong as the British anachronism "Sulphur" - which my local petrol station still has on its pumps. Doesn't make it a correct spelling even here. --Kiand 17:12, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Aluminum
Although other countries have picked up on it, skateboarding is an American sport. Aluminium is spelled "aluminum" in America. In the same sentence, the American spelling of "fiberglass" is also used. It goes along with Wikipedia's policy for spelling. "Each article should have uniform spelling and not a haphazard mix of different spellings, which can be jarring to the reader. For example, do not use center in one place and centre in another in the same article," and, ''"Articles that focus on a topic specific to a particular English-speaking country should generally conform to the spelling of that country." ''

The word is still linked to the correct IUPAC spelling, of course. But the IUPAC's opinion on how aluminium is spelled is irrelevant to this topic. Kafziel 17:03, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Its not an "american sport" in any way more than soccer is a "British sport", its entirely international at this stage - I'd like to see you tell a few hundred thousand people across Europe its american, as well as three UK TV stations where it comprises a major part of their schedule, skatepark owners, etc, etc. And the spelling "aluminum" is wrong in the US too, so your argument is irrelevant. --Kiand 17:06, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Kiand, see the manual of style and you will see that "aluminum" is listed as the accepted American version. It's really as simple as that. Kafziel 17:12, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * For further reference, see http://www.merriamwebster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary. This is the spelling preferred by the American Psychological Association. Kafziel 17:34, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

problems with definition of ollie
"To ollie is to fly off the ground (flat or a wall) with the board without holding onto the board and land back on the board. It requires using the feet to press against the board in various complicated combinations, depending on the trick to be performed."

This definition is faulty - there are not "various complicated combinations" of the feet required to perform an ollie. You simply press down hard and quickly on the board with your back foot, and use your front foot to control the upward motion of your board. Secondly, the sentence isn't grammatically correct: it starts out defining how an ollie is performed, and ends with "depending on the trick to be performed". What do you all think of this?
 * I agree. The first sentence is especially lame; it says the word "board" three times. What you do with your front foot does depend on what you're doing, but it should be separated out of that sentence. Kafziel 12:49, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Skateboarding Culture?
The last heading on the article deals very briefly with 'skateboarding culture'. The perceived threat that 'posers' pose to skateboarders and the antagonism between skateboarders and authority figures should be mentioned - I'm not quite sure whether it should be here or should be on a completely different article.

Skaters sagging their pants does not take after hip-hop it takes after punk rock. while rappers sag as well, skateboarding & its culture has never had a hip-hop influence, maybe up until now. skater style and hip-hop style are 2 completely different styles.
 * while it is true that the fat pants phenonmena in skating happened before fat pants arrived in hip-hop, skating and hip-hop have had a mutual influence upon each other for over 20 years. Yes they are two different styles, just as punk rock and skating are.  Nonetheless, there is an overlap and cross pollination between these two musical styles and skating.  Just witness the Beastie Boys, which have influenced and been influenced by skating since their first hip-hop album.--Baoluo 17:53, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Editing mistake
Messed up reverting this article to a previous revision to erase vandalism - will someone take care of this for me?Walkerb 03:06, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

poser stuff
i deleted the bits i thought were retarded, you cant tell who a poser is by looking at their shoes, you could totally destory your shoes by attempting to do 1000000 ollies, wtf man.

I agree - this poser statements have no real basis and are just a "hater" term for anything they don't consider cool.--KoRnholio8 09:37, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

All you would have to do in order to tell who a poser is, would be to give them a board and tell them to do something other than an ollie. And or if they cant land shit then they suck.--BoboDaSk8ter

ok first off you cant tell some one is a poser by handing them a board! if you do that and they cant land "shit" then that means they just suck! no one is great when they first start out! now if they brag and say they can do all these awsome tricks and you hand them a board they will usualy back down and say " i dont wanna show you up" now that would be a poser! but i do agree with the shoes if they are brand new and they say they skate then they could be a poser, but they could have just bought shoes or they might have two pairs! so you cant really be shure! just dont be going and acusing them untill you see for your self! and an ollie has never tore up my shoes now kick flips could do a little damage but so far varials damage my shoes the most!

Skateboarding perception change
This section doesn't cite any sources, so if we can't find any, I'm deleting the entire section. --Liface 22:30, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree. It's subjective. Steve-g 19:34, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I deleted it myself after reading it again. It didn't even make sense. Steve-g 19:54, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Links section
We really need to decide something about this. It keeps getting vandalized by people who are adding personal websites. --Liface 14:43, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Policy is: No promotional links - case closed --DV8 2XL 15:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Element Featherlight Helium Skateboards
Is this worth mentioning? This is not new technology: many companies in the late 1970s made boards with pockets of air inside to reduce weight ('airbeams'). Are we crossing from innovation to advertising? Steve-g 07:48, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah I don't think this is worth mentioning. The same guy has added it twice. --Liface 15:11, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I removed it. Steve-g 08:25, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Fiberglass skateboards
The wiki article mentions fiberglass skateboard in 3rd generation, but Hobie made a fiberglass skateboard back in the mid 1960's (I had one of these), and later in the early 1970's. The earlier ones were more curved and a darker orange-beige color. The later ones were almost white. Pics of the later one. Missing is a decal that looked like wood down the middle, with a Hobie logo in the diamond shaped area:

http://jeffareid.net/pics/sktbrd01.jpg

http://jeffareid.net/pics/sktbrd02.jpg


 * Nice deck. Can you post a pic of the bottom? Interested to see the wheels. Yours is early '70s right? The '60s versions had deep rockers I think (I always thought they were plastic). Steve-g 19:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Forgot about this. sorry for the long wait.

picture of truck http://jeffareid.net/pics/sktbrd03.jpg

picture of the bearings http://jeffareid.net/pics/sktbrd04.jpg

decks suck, they dont last as long as the regular boards which are made with individual layers of different wood. Its just special because it has a peice of fiberglass in the center. Other than that you would be foolish to spend your money on a board like that.

Skateboard tricks in the 1960's
The tricks of the 1960s:

tic-tac (called kick turns in the 1960s) used to propel a skateboard.

360 (360 spins)

coffin (lie down and get back up without touching ground)

curb jump (the original ollie?) you'd jump up with your board to jump a curb.

endover (called switch ends in the 1960s), the goal was to see how fast you could do these.

handstand, since few could press into a handstand, it was OK to launch from your feet.

headstand, normally with a helmet, this was rare.

half-switch ends, one foot stays in middle, other foot goes to front to do end-over, walking like motion while skateboard is turned.

jumping - take off and land on same board. Flexible boards allowed big jumps, for jumping contest (over bamboo poles, borrowed for old tech high-jump equipment). There was a film showing some guy jumping over a small car (triumph tr6?) sideways and landing on the same board jumped from.

skiing - attach a rope to a bicycle or small motorcycle, hang on while standing on one or two skateboards. Whiplash moves were fun.

turn around - just turn around while on the skateboard, a bit tricky if trucks were loose.

wheelie - usually long ones while making a big turn, looked like a surfboard.

One of the differences for skateboarding in the 1960's was a skateboarder wasn't supposed to touch the ground. The skateboard had to be propelled using tic-tacs (from a standing start), or if going fast enough, by twisting back and forth. A variation was to maintain a wheelie while doing tic tac like movements.

I don't remember anyone skating in empty pools in the 1960's, but I do remember playgrounds with big ramped sides (school built on a hill). The "coolest" trick was to do 1 1/2 360's high up on the slope.

Jeffareid 23:48, 3 October 2006 (UTC) if there was a see through fiber glass skateboard you could put internal neon lights on the inside to create a sweet fliptrick effect.

Street skating
The text below was excised today. While imperfect and without sources for many vague assertions (like much of this article), it did slightly perform the work of explaining the evolution of street skateboarding in the 80's. So I might put it back in trimmed and edited form, unless someone strongly objects or wants to write a bit on how street took shape in the 80's.   Jackhorkheimer 07:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

'''While this wave of skateboarding was sparked by commercialized vert ramp skating, a majority of people who skateboarded during this period never rode vert ramps. Because most people couldn't afford to build vert ramps, street skating gained popularity. In the mid-eighties, street skating was done on wide clumsy vert boards with short noses, slide rails, large soft wheels. Skateboarding, however, evolved quickly over the next few years to accommodate the street skater. Since few skateparks were available to skater at this time, street skating pushed the skater to seek out shopping centers, and public and private property as their "spot" to skate. Public backlash, and the threat of lawsuit forced businesses and property owners to ban skateboarding on their property. By 1992 only a small fraction of skateboarders remained.'''
 * All I saw was a bunch of vandalism so I reverted to what I thought was the best version. Feel free to add it back. --Liface 08:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I put most of the above back in today. Didn't see the note here, but noticed the 3rd generation section had become really short. I cleaned it up a bit also. Steve-g 15:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

skateboarders
shouldn't we list proffessional skateboarders on this listtBwyard 16:28, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That could be a very long list and we would need to debate if pros from the '70s, '80s and '90s should also be added. Steve-g 18:16, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * There's a list already: List of Skateboarders--KoRnholio8 22:08, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

thanks i didn't know that there was already a list of pro skaters and that is a good point it would be a very long list

Protect this page
Has anyone ever nominated this page for protection? Reverting vandalism by IPs seems to be a bidaily task. --Jackhorkheimer 18:47, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I mentioned it to an admin once, but they didn't think it necessary. That was a while ago and the recent rise in vandalism may be because skateboard is now protected. Nominate it and if it comes to a vote, I'll vote in favour. Steve-g 21:20, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Next to do
Three sections under a "types of skateboarding" header: vert skateboarding, street skateboarding, and freestyle. --Liface 20:27, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh dear (re: vandalism and unprotection)
Two vandalisms in the hour since the page was unprotected. Is permanent semi-protection ever used? --Jackhorkheimer 00:01, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Skateboarding as art
As far as I'm concerned, this statement, "Because of its creative aspects, it can also be seen as an art form." Doesn't strike me as too debatable, simply because it is true by definition.

One of the American Heritage Dictionary definition of art: "The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or plastic medium."

Now, the only point which seems debatable to me is whether skateboarding has aesthetic value. Maybe I'm biased because I'm accustomed to appreciating skateboarding aesthetically. However, I don't think the inability of some to appreciate something aesthetically should preclude it from being identified as art--whether it be forms of dance without a respectable pedigree--such as ballet has, performance art, or styles of painting that aren't strictly representational.

That said, I do think something explaining the aesthetic value of skateboarding would be useful for those unaccustomed to thinking of skateboarding in terms of aesthetics. Until that time tho, and for the sake of having one clean header paragraph in a somewhat muddled article, I think it should stand as-is now. --Jackhorkheimer 21:37, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Spelling correction requested
Cara-Beth Burnside should be spelled with capital "B" for Beth. In the article her name has a lowercase "b" (Cara-beth Burnside). I'm a new user and not allowed to edit this article. Perhaps someone could make this change for me. Also, please correct the capitalization for the link. There was no article for Cara-Beth Burnside for the link, so I wrote one, but I used the correct capitalization for the article I wrote, so the current link in this skateboarding article with wrong capitalization (Cara-beth Burnside) does not lead anywhere.

Thank you.

Go4itgirl 06:40, 21 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Done. Don't forget to add new messages to the bottom in future, this will make it easier for people to find your message. --bainer (talk) 02:57, 22 December 2006 (UTC)