Talk:Slammiversary (2008)/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

I will be happy to review this GA Candidate article. H1nkles (talk) 18:45, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

GA Review Philosophy
When I do an article review I like to provide a Heading-by-Heading breakdown of suggestions for how to make the article better. It is done in good faith as a means to improve the article. It does not mean that the article is not GA quality, or that the issues listed are keeping it from GA approval. I also undertake minor grammatical and prose edits. After I finish this part of the review I will look at the over arching quality of the article in light of the GA criteria and make my determination as to the overall quality of the article. H1nkles (talk) 18:50, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Regarding Lead

 * The lead is too detailed. Per WP:LEAD the lead is to be a summary of the article.  Language should be more general.  By nature the information in the lead will be repeated in the article but the purpose of the lead is to paint an overarching picture of the article.  While having not read the entire article I am assuming that the outcomes of each match are detailed in the article. Please consider removing the outcomes of the events from the lead.  I am new to reading professional wrestling articles and so if it is a consensus to list competitors and event outcomes in the lead then I will defer to community consensus but under protest as I feel as though it is too specific for the lead.  Please clarify this issue.
 * Per the project's MoS the lead is to not go too much into detail but just tell who won. So far alot of things are being changed in the lead since I did not know how bad it was. I'm following my recently promoted FA, Lockdown (2008), to fix the article.-- Will C  19:34, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You indicate that for the first time the World championship title was retained after the King of the Mountain match two times in the lead. Please remove one of these references as duplicative.
 * Working on it.-- Will C  19:34, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * To make the lead more summary in nature you should include more aftermath and ratings information if possible.
 * Aftermath was apart of the project's MoS but FA reviews thought it was not useful in the lead.
 * You over wikilink in the lead. I find this a lot with articles.  Specifically, Chronology does not need to be linked, also championship seems a bit unnecessary when you later link to the TNA World Heavyweight Championship.  It's debatable so I'll leave it up to you.  You have a lot of links in the lead and removing a few would help.  H1nkles (talk) 19:23, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I did not notice that until today. I'll fix it quickly.-- Will C  19:34, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Alright, I fixed the lead to the best I can at the moment.-- Will C  19:48, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Comments on Lead after fixes
This is both a response to your fixes and more detailed recommendations for further fixes.
 * If community consensus is to put results in the lead then so be it, I won't fail it for that.
 * You wikilink Promotion to Professional wrestling promotion. Upon reading this page it appears as though it is referring to various Pro Wrestling organizations (WWE, TNA, NWA) rather than a specific event such as Slammiversary or Wrestlemania.  This should either be delinked or the link should change, probably delinked in my opinion.


 * Delinked.-- Will C  22:06, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Quote, "Following the conclusion of the event, and while an independent construction crew hired by TNA was dissembling the event's set, a worker (Kevin "Angus" Sinex) fell to his death when the scaffold, which he was working, on broke and collapsed; causing him to fall nearly 20 feet (6.1 m) to the concrete floor below." This is a run on sentence and should be broken down into two or perhaps three sentences.


 * I felt the same way.-- Will C  22:06, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Look at the first sentence of the second paragraph. It is just an expansion on the KOTM sentence in the first paragraph.  In order to keep the lead summary in nature I would remove this first sentence in the second paragraph or remove the KOTM sentence in the first paragraph and introduce it here in the second, I would also completely reword it.  To do this I would end the sentence with "Rhino" and start a new one with, "In doing so, Samoa Joe retained his championship.  This is the first time a World Championship has been successfully defended in a KOTM match."  I would then remove the same reference about World Championship defense in the first sentence of the third paragraph.


 * I tried to figure out what you wanted, but I'm having a hard time understanding people today. I did a few fixes to the lead to try and fix the problems you have. I kind of like the way it is laid out at the moment.-- Will C  22:06, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Prose problem in this quote, "Another featured match saw A.J. Styles defeat Kurt Angle...." A match doesn't "see" anything.  Recommend rewording.


 * Worked on it.-- Will C  22:06, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Quote, "...in a Tag Team match for the championship, in which LAX retained. Petey Williams also retained the TNA X Division Championship against Kaz in another standard wrestling match." Change prose in these two sentences, specifically with, "...in which LAX retained."  If you are putting results in the lead this should be a separate sentence from the description of the match.  Also you use the word "retained" in the following sentence.  It's always good to not duplicate words in back to back sentences, consider changing the word to a synonym.  H1nkles (talk) 21:32, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

The background is probably going to have alot of problems so skip it and go to the rest of the article please while I work on the background a bit.-- Will C  22:06, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed it, giving it short and sweet now.-- Will C  22:06, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Oops didn't read your comments, sorry. H1nkles (talk) 22:16, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Would you like me to stop my review until you have time to work over the various sections? I can wait until Monday and give you the weekend to work it over.  It's a longish article for a GA so I don't mind giving you a little time if you'd like. I won't put a hold on the review, just give it a little more time.  What do you think?  H1nkles (talk) 15:49, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I can do it. I only feel the wrose section is the background. I was a bit busy yesterday. I'll get it fixed today.-- Will C  17:16, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Regarding Background

 * First paragraph is a stub, two sentences, consider expanding or combining with second.


 * Same one as in the Lockdown (2008) FA and in most other wrestling PPV articles. It hasn't been a problem yet.-- Will C  22:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delink Plots and Storylines as those links really do not apply to the article. If there are articles on general ideas related to Pro Wrestling storylines then this would be a useful wikilink.  Otherwise delink.  By the way, Hero and Villian are appropriately linked.


 * See above statement.-- Will C  22:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * A thorough prose edit should be performed on this section. An example of poor prose is, "The main event at Slammiversary was for the TNA World Heavyweight Championship in the annual King of the Mountain match (KOTM), in which it involved five competitors fighting to gain a pinfall or submission....".  Specifically, "in which it..." has too many articles.


 * Re-worded and tried my best at the moment.-- Will C  22:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Your links to some of the wrestlers' bios in this section are already linked in the lead. Delink wrestler bio articles that are already linked in the lead.


 * It is invloved in the project's new out of universe format.-- Will C  22:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delink folding chair, unnecessary wikilink.


 * Most cases it is in wrestling articles but delinked.-- Will C  22:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You already link "Special Guest Ringside Enforcer" in the lead, please delink it here. Same with "Standard Wrestling match".


 * Delinked.-- Will C  22:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Quote, "Later in that episode, Styles was attacked by Tomko, Booker T, and Team 3D after his qualification match with Booker T for the KOTM." Already stated earlier, consider rewording.


 * Well it is needed later, since I start explaining more about it.-- Will C  22:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Quote, "continued the beatdown", the word "beatdown" is inappropriate for an encycopedic article. Please rephrase.


 * Re-worded.-- Will C  22:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Quote, "after Sacrifice, Team 3D were scripted into a rivalry with Laz..." Is "Laz" supposed to be "LAX"? It's unclear.


 * That was a typ-o. Fixed.-- Will C  22:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Too many [] in "(Velvet Sky [Jamie Szantyr] and Angelina Love [Lauren Williams])"


 * Fixed.-- Will C  22:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Two "other" in this quote, " each other other the top rope." I think you mean "over".


 * Okay, I'll fix it.
 * Quote, "When it came down to the final two participants, it became a match in which you had to climb a ladder and retrieve a contract to win called a Ladder match." It's not appropriate to use the word, "you" in this context.  Please reword.


 * Re-word.-- Will C  22:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Was Abyss truly acting schizophrenic? Perhaps you should use a more general term like "insane" this is just a suggestion.


 * The links to the videos are referencing that section. To me he is. TNA placed them all up on their official youtube account.-- Will C  22:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delink Singer for same reason as above.


 * Done.-- Will C  22:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll take care of all of these after a little while when I perform another giant copyedit over the background. I'm not happy with the background prose at all. I nominated it on Niovember 17, which means I probably had the background done on the 15. Since that day I've gotten two other articles to GA and one article to FA. I've becomed more expirenced and this in my opinion is very sloppy and badly written. I'll probably take care of everything above and more. At one point I thought this was my best work, oh boy was I wrong. I really need to cut it down as well.-- Will C  23:13, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Glad to hear you're on it. I'll start in on the next section. H1nkles (talk) 21:00, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I fixed the background for now. I'll read it again later and go over it one more time.

Regarding Event

 * First paragraph about the Dark Match is a stub, it should either be expanded or eliminated.


 * That is actually the correct length of matches of those types. The undercard matches aren't supposed to be explained that much. Just the main points of the match.-- Will C  22:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You wikilink wrestlers names multiple times like Petey Williams, you should review the entire article and make sure you are not linking these names more than once.H1nkles (talk) 21:15, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The last time he was linked was the lead. Names are supposed to be linked in the lead and not linked again until it is a good way from the lead. Mainly the second or third paragraph from the lead in wrestling articles.
 * Ok, just link with caution, BTW Petey Williams is linked three times in the article.
 * The "Preliminary Matches" subsection also needs a good prose edit. Several small errors combine to make prose a problem.


 * Maybe you could point one or two out.
 * Examples include, "Williams wore a protective face guard during the match, the reason was announced by Mike Tenay and Don West as a result of an injury Williams sustained a few weeks before the event" unnecessary to say who announced it, we already know who the announcers are, "Williams wore a protective face guard during the match due to an injury he sustained a few weeks...." (a suggested rewrite). Another example, "Williams claimed victory in the match after he grabbed Kaz and jumped over Kaz's back, while at the same time pulling Kaz's head backwards with his legs, causing him to perform a backflip and slam Kaz's head into the mat with a move Williams dubbed the Canadian Destroyer to gain the pinfall victory and to retain the X Division Championship". This is a run on sentence.  Another example, "LAX won the match when Homicide pulling back on Devon's leg, which caused Devon to fall backwards" - If I understand the sentence correctly, "pulling" should be "pulled".
 * On a separate note, you have told the readers who the members of each tag team are earlier in the article, is it necessary to repeat it again here? H1nkles (talk) 22:52, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Quote, "The finish of the match saw Homicide pulling back on Devon's leg, which caused Devon to fall backwards" check use of the word, "saw".


 * Re-wrote.-- Will C  22:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Paragraph on the women's match is also a stub that should be expanded or combined with another paragraph.


 * That is everything that is important and merging it with another match wouldn't be a paragpah since it would be a different subject. Same length as the ones in Lockdown (2008).
 * Delink "Preacher" same reason as above. H1nkles (talk) 21:39, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Done.-- Will C  22:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you explain the concept behind the KOTM match, what the objective is? I don't recall.  At any rate if you don't, then you should in the paragraph about the KOTM match.  It is confusing for the layman reader to understand what the exact objective is.  H1nkles (talk) 22:32, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I did in the background.-- Will C  22:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Regarding Incident

 * The Rothstein quote is a bit confusing. Is this the official TNA press release/statement on the incident or is this a quote from a reporter for The Sun?  Your source seems to indicate that it is the TNA press release.  If this is the entire TNA press release then two things need to happen, One it needs to be ascribed to Dixie Carter as quoted in The Sun, since this is the person you ascribe it to in the article, and two you should remove the two quotes from the main article as the reader can read the full quote to the right and it isn't really necessary to quote a portion of it when the full statement is literally right on the same page.
 * Other than this the section is fine. H1nkles (talk) 22:42, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The Sun source is just a copy of TNA's statement. TNA does not keep stuff on their site for a long time. I couldn't find their statement so I got the one from The Sun since I believe they are reliable. Just a simple coppy and paste job.-- Will C  22:49, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem, the Sun quotes the TNA spokesperson. You should attribute the quote to the TNA and then indicate that it is found in The Sun.  As it stands the reader thinks that Rothstein said the quote when in reality Rothstein is the person who wrote the article for the Sun.  Does that make sense?  H1nkles (talk) 22:55, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I see you fixed it in the article, much better. H1nkles (talk) 22:56, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well last night I took a final copyedit of the background. I have nothing left to do. I'm out of ideas to fix things, so I guess it is up to you to find the problems now.-- Will C  21:07, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Regarding Aftermath

 * Quote, "Sting stuck Joe in the stomach and back with a baseball bat, which Sting held in his hand", do you mean "struck" or "stuck"?


 * Must of been a typ-o.-- Will C  00:10, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Quote, "that Booker T did not win the championship, as a result of Sharmell not being an official referee", "as a result of..." is not correct wording here, should be "due to the fact that..." or something like that.


 * Changed.-- Will C  00:10, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Quote, "Kurt and Team 3D claimed victory after Kurt's real-life bestfriend Frank Trigg". Where did Trigg come from. Throughout the article you are meticulous about naming each contestant in every fight. Where does Trigg come from, he is not mentioned in the fight's line up.


 * Sorry, I must of forgot to add that.-- Will C  00:10, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Quote, "Later, LAX challenged Storm and Roode to a match where real-life fans were placed around the ring with leather straps in-order to whip anyone who gets outside the ring in a match TNA calls a "Fan's Revenge" Lumberjack Strap match.[26] Storm and Roode accepted the challenge only after it was made for the World Tag Team Championship on the June 19 episode of Impact!.[26] Storm and Roode were defeated by LAX at Victory Road." This detail really has nothing to do with Slammiversary, it just discusses various people who were in Slammiversary but they did not fight each other or have any interaction during Slammiversary right?  I think you should cut this detail out.  H1nkles (talk) 16:13, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * It is mainly there to talk about What Roode went on to do and LAX with the Tag team championship, that is mainly what the aftermath section is for in PPV articles. Just to explain keys things that happened to people at the event. I tell about everyone from the King of the Mountain but Roode and that lead to Storm and Roode being one of the most important tag teams in TNA today. They actually won the belts from LAX in August. I'll remove it if you want, just thought to give reasons for inclusion.-- Will C  00:10, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Regarding Reception

 * Why is it a subsection of "Aftermath"? It does not appear to be related to the scripted aftermath of TNA but is instead a report of the quality of the show from an entertainment perspective, it should be its own section.


 * The project decided to give it a subsection. It is in the MoS of the project. I can make it a single section if you wish?-- Will C  00:15, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you have any quotes from Waldman as to why he gave the rating he did?


 * Nothing that will help the article besides maybe good match. Nothing that would say why he gave it a 7.-- Will C  00:15, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Quote, "The DVD remained on the chart for two consecutive weeks, although it ranked lower after the week of September 20, 2008. During its final week on the chart, the week of September 20, it ranked number sixteen." These sentences are poorly written and probably should be combined. H1nkles (talk) 16:19, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, I'll fix that.-- Will C  00:15, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Regarding Results
I assume the table format is consistent with community consensus within the Pro Wrestling Project, is that correct? They look fine I just want to make sure they are consistent. H1nkles (talk) 16:24, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is the same as other articles.-- Will C  00:15, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Regarding Notes

 * Check the accessdates on some of the older articles. You have some dates from July 20th, which would be nearly 6 months old.  For websites that can be ancient history.  Anything before September should be updated.


 * Okay, I'll check but all articles in Slammiversary should still be around since all of them keep an archive. I'll still check though.
 * You rely heavily on PWTorch.com for a lot of your citations. I counted at least 40 different references citing this website.  I'm a little uncomfortable with such a heavy reliance on one source.  I'm going to check some of the other Pro wrestling GA's to see if these passed with heavy use of this site.  H1nkles (talk) 16:34, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Well PWTorch is the most reliable result site the project uses. The FA reviewers agree with the use and I mainly used it for Lockdown 2008, plus their articles never get deleted they still have some uploaded from 2003.-- Will C  00:18, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Overarching review
So my review is completed, you've worked on several of my suggestions. I have not reread the article so I don't know specifically all that has been changed. I will use this space to address the GA criteria and where the article either meets or does not meet the criteria. I will then put it on hold for you to make any final fixes to deem appropriate and then I will reread the article for a final GA determination.
 * Criteria 1 - well written - complies w/ WP:MOS
 * I am not an expert on the MOS but I have tried to point out where the article contains WP:Jargon and quote issues. Prose is an issue and a thorough prose review is strong recommended.  If you have already finished this to your satisfaction then I will address it further when I reread the article for my final determination.  If you haven't already guessed I'm a stickler for quality writing.  I understand that this is a GAC not an FAC and I will not hold the article to FA level, but the writing should be far above average.


 * I'm not extremely happy with the prose myself but I have a bit of a high standard these days, I believe it is well written that people will understand it. I could write it better but I've forgot alot of things that happened around that time and I hope to before I take it to FA in the far future to have re-written the background if it doesn't suit me at the time. I plan to re-read it and make any changes I need to.-- Will C  00:31, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Criteria 2 - Factually accurate and verifiable.
 * My main concern here is your reliance on the source, PWtorch.com. I checked three other GAs on TNA wrestling, No Surrender 2008, Sacrifice 2008, Hard Justice 2008.  No Surrender used the source 8 times out of 61 citations.  Sacrifice used it 9 times out of 72 citations and Hard Justice used it 20 times out of 59 citations.  This article uses it 40 times in 92 citations.  I do look critically at any article that relies so heavily on one single web site for its source material.  I understand that this may be the only one available.  I would like to hear your thoughts on this concern. H1nkles (talk) 21:22, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Well as I've said above it is very trusted. I also wrote all the ones you mentioned and I'm in the process of re-writting Sacrifice. Hard Justice and No Surrender were passed by a good friend named Nikki311 who is apart of the project and an administrator. I have other sources to replace the PWTorch ones if there are too many. I just tend to try to use a low amount of sources. It is easier to keep track.-- Will C  00:31, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Your rationale makes sense, I will overlook it for GAC. H1nkles (talk) 16:33, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Another concern already highlighted were some of the accessdates. Please make sure they are updated to at least September.


 * I'll update them shortly.-- Will C  00:31, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Criteria 3 - Broad in coverage
 * I think for the most part this is good. I found myself bogging down when you were explaining every technical move involved in the various finishing moves that the wrestlers performed.  I feel this is a bit too much detail but I let it slide as apparently these are described in other articles to the same detail and I'm a big proponent of consistency between articles in the same genre.


 * Yeah I don't like to explain the moves, it gets annoying and hard. I still can't find a good way to explain a roll-up. You have to see it to understand it better though it is a very simple move.
 * I'm not sure where this suggestion would fall so I'll put it here, you have a tendency to overwikilink. I think you've corrected some of the links, which is good.  If you are going to reread the article again please look at it with a critical eye to the linking.  Look for multiple links of the same thing and also look for links to wiki articles that really do nothing to support this article (like plot and chronology already discussed).


 * I'll try to make sure I've got all the places that are overlinked. Anything else stilled is either needed or a project guideline.-- Will C  00:31, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Criteria 4 - Neutral
 * This is met, good for WP:POV.
 * Criteria 5 - Stable
 * This is met, stable article no edit wars or vandalism.
 * Criteria 6 - Images
 * The poster at the top of the article needs Fair Use rationale for use in this article. Please address that .  The rest of the photos do qualify for use in the article, they are also relevant.

So that is all for my review. I look forward to seeing your edits. I will put the article on hold until Friday, 1/16 and then I will do my final review unless you need more time to make corrections. H1nkles (talk) 21:41, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Final GA Determination
It looks as though your edits are complete so I have reread the article for final GA review. I put your article through the ringer and I think you did a good job of either fixing the problems or giving me good clear reasons why you disagree with my suggestions. As such I will pass the article as GA, congratulations! It was a pleasure to hash through this article with you. Many editors get defensive when I make suggestions or comments on their articles, it was nice to work with someone who was genuinely wanting to make the article better and was mature enough to take my suggestions as good faith attempts to help do just that. Please consider taking a look at the WP:GAC list and taking on a review to help with the backlog. In any event, well done and keep up the high quality work. Keep the faith my friend. H1nkles (talk) 16:33, 13 January 2009 (UTC)