Talk:Slavko Grujić

KBE
It is a convention adopted across biographical articles that "KBE" and other post-nominals issued by the British crown should not appear in article leads in every case, but only for people who were at some point subjects of that crown. It does not matter if a person "had the right" to use the post-nominal; Wikipedia editors have no business exercising that right on behalf of other people. Particularly in regard to political and military figures who made their reputations on service to their own countries, styling them as subjects of another country can be offensive. Grujić was a Serbian diplomat in London. As such, he was never a resident subject to the crown, but a resident representative of his own country. 73.71.251.64 (talk) 18:39, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for expounding here, I do not see a mention of that convention on MOS:POSTNOM or that it should be used only for people who were at some point subjects of that crown. Honorary knighthoods are bestowed to people who are neither British nor Commonwealth nationals but who have made a significant contribution to relations between the UK and their own country, ROYAL.UK Grujić was Yugoslav Ambassador to the Court of St James not just a "Serbian diplomat in London". A KBE does not “style someone as a subject", and one does not have to be a resident subject to the crown that's the whole point of Honorary knighthoods. A lot of biographical articles on Wikipedia use post-nominals for non-Britons who received an honorary knighthood like Esa-Pekka_Salonen, André_Previn, Sidney_Poitier, Mark_Getty, Kevin Spacey, Philip_Bobbitt, Tumani_Corrah, Hermann Hauser, Georg Solti, Kazuo_Inamori. I don't see how the use of Post-nominals here could be perceived as offensive. Aeengath (talk) 10:24, 9 August 2021 (UTC)


 * MOS:POSTNOM places limits on the use of post-nominals. If you do not see that it does, please read it again. If you happen to live in a British crown dominion where people routinely put their crown credentials out front, you might not appreciate that people do not do so everywhere. You might also not appreciate the sensitivities involved when, on behalf of a former imperial crown, you insert crown credentials into the Wikipedia article of someone who made a career in service their own country, perhaps a country that struggled for independence from that same crown. So please give that some thought. There is no problem mentioning these honors somewhere in the article, such as in the categories or an "awards and recognition" section. It is their use as a postnominal, as a part of someone's personal identity, that raises concerns. 73.71.251.64 (talk) 16:15, 9 August 2021 (UTC)


 * MOS:POSTNOM says: When the subject of an article has received honours or appointments issued either by the subject's state of citizenship or residence, or by a widely recognized organization that reliable sources regularly associate with the subject, post-nominal letters may be included in the lead section. Slavko Grujić was closely associated with the Crown since he was ambassador of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia to the Court of St James from 1935 to 1937; it is therefore perfectly appropriate to place post-nominals of his honorary British knighthood, after his name, in the lead. Aeengath (talk) 20:34, 9 August 2021 (UTC)