Talk:Slayer/Archive 1

The Band
I think the slayer is the fuckin' relegious band, they are pure thrash metal wich this band is the biggest thrash band around the world.I have no words to discribe them.Bye. 82.114.95.6 08:39, 18 September 2006 (UTC)Vicky–

On Rick Rubin
In the section on Nazi accusations, it says Rick Rubin is Jewish. While in the Angel of Death article, it states he has Jewish roots. The article on Rick Rubin doesn't state anything about his religion or racial heritage that I can see. So, which is it? Caciss 13:56, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Bell High School
One of the members of slayer attended Bell High school. I do not recall which one.

If they met each other at a high school it would belong here, but if only one member went to that high-school you could at it to his wikipedia page. You will also need a source to back this up. M3tal H3ad 07:49, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Hot Topic
"This EP is exclusive to Hot Topic and will not be available anywhere else." I'm very certain that is not true. It's aviable in lots of stores!

Nope, only 5,000 copies through exclusively through hot topic. Remember this is Eternal Pyre, not Christ Illusion. M3tal H3ad 07:50, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Satan Laughs As You Eternally Rot
"Laughing As You Eternally Rot" is a line of the lyrics of the song Live Undead form Slayer's 1988 album South of Heaven, that spawned the acronym-discussion

The "citation needed" thing about Ian MacKaye can be found in the book American Hardcore. I'll be damned to lookup the exact page number, but if you guys really want it, drop me a message on my talk page.

15/05/06: It doesn't help that Behind The Crooked Cross is glossed over by the media, just as it's not juicy enough to report about. Angel Of Death was cold observational fact, whereas this was slightly more opinionated. Slayer don't make life easy for themselves though, probably just for kicks...Don't tell me there'll be no brewing about terrorist sympathies on forthcoming song 'Jihad'?! :D

It's also doubtful that a Nazi band would add some Nu-Metal progression, as was apparent on the last two albums.

But then Nazis shouldn't be playing any form of music that stems from blues!

I don't understand why everyone is making excuses for Slayer. If a band does not have songs that do not follow a left wing agenda, they are labled as "nazis" No where in the song Angel of Death do they promote the holocaust. Do people question Slayer's lyrics about Dahmer and try to make connections about Tom being a homosexual serial killer? As for Guitly of Being White, it has to do with racism felt from a white persons point of view. The majority of Slayer fans in North Americans are white anyways, so I don't see why a band can't connect with their fans.

(This nazism/racism theory doesn't make any sense because Tom is from Chile and Dave is from Cuba)

If Slayer are Nazi, they're certainly progressive...What with only 1 blonde haired, blue eyed member and 2 of Hispanic origin. And not only that but to sign to a big rap label, work with a Jewish producer, collaborate with rap artists, be friends of Sepultura, have a member feature in a video for Sum 41, and actually y'know acknowledge the holocaust happened to such a gruesome degree in a song based in a genre that thrives on shock? Man! Slayer have some explaining to do! Slayer push buttons. I've never heard and will never will likely hear tales of Hanneman removing non-Aryan members of his audience from gigs or King perform satanic rites on stage. It takes more than words and imagery to be a Nazi. Look at The British National Party. The real wolves dress up like sheep nowadays.

People really are stupid to be calling a band with two distinctly non-White members "Nazis." Assholes who assume that they are Satanist also need to know that Tom is a devout Catholic, and he fondly looks back on the times he attended church with his family. Idiots. Kerry King, the writer of most of Slayer's satanist lyrics, has said that he doesn't believe in God or Satan. However, as he said on the "Still Reigning" DVD, he believes that there is a greater shock factor in singing about Satan rather than singing about God.

In an interview, Jeff Hanneman was asked about Angel of Death and its apparent Nazi connations, and the fact that there is no sign of condemnation of Mengele in the lyrics. Hanneman stated that there is no need for condemnation, as it is quite obvious that what Mengele did was horrific, and he doesn't have to write it down in order to tell everyone. It is true that Tom and Dave are distinctly non-Aryan and this has been pointed out to those that have accused Slayer of being Nazis. I've heard that "Angel of Death" was actually banned in Germany (West or East, not sure) when it came out, but I'm not too sure about that, sue me if I'm wrong. The thing is, most people assume things before they actually look into it, for example, several hardcore punk bands, like The Exploited, Agnostic Front and Minor Threat had been accused of racism because so many skinheads were recruited by neo-Nazi organizations. Minor Threat's song "Guilty Of Being White" has been accused of being racist, but in fact the lyrics seem to say that it is more anti-racist than racist. The Exploited also had a huge fan base that were members of the National Front, and songs like "Hitler's On The Charts Again" caused some people to deem them racist. Of course, Jeff Hanneman would be the natural target for accusations of Nazism; he's a quarter German, and he's got proper Germanic looks. Kerry King would be the natural target for accusations of Satanism - what with that devil goatee and all his tats? :P

jbuttery 09:47, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC) OK, so this is my first edit, so try not to throw too many buckets of pig's blood on me if I did something wrong. That is pig's blood, right? Anyway, I mostly just rearranged some sentences and stuff to make it read a little more "encyclopedically", and didn't actually change any of the content _except_ that I took out the sentence about "Slayer is the only band that nobody's accused of selling out". I think it's a stretch to say that just because some people want to bash Metallica and some other bands that Slayer is the only one. I mean, look at Pantera, they're nothing if not progressively more noisy on every album. :P In any case, that's my justification for removing that sentence, and I deliberately didn't mark this edit minor so someone could maybe double check it when it comes up in the recent edits.

Ok we all love slayer, but this sounds almost like an advertizement, doesn't it?


 * It does a bit - I'll try to tweak it. --Camembert


 * Ah, much better... :-) -- 130.243.97.72

User:Michael just edited the article so that paragraphs two and three read as follows:


 * This saw them heard bands in concert, MTV or on the radio of their favorite albums of all times like AC/DC's Back In Black, Iron Maiden's The Number Of The Beast, Mercyful Fate's Don't Break The Oath, King Diamond's Conspiracy, Scorpions' Blackout, Judas Priest's British Steel, U.F.O.'s No Heavy Petting, Lights Out and Obsession, Kiss' Destroyer, or Diamond Head's Canterbury.


 * The 1986 album Reign in Blood from songs about suicide, history of evil, death and other evil positions for being like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest and Diamond Head, probably their best known 5-star album, is held in very high regard critically, and was described by the magazine Kerrang! as "the heaviest album of all time" and issued on a Rolling Stone magazine in 1989.

I'm afraid I can't make sense of it, and I doubt many other people will be able to, so I've reverted it to its previous state (I've kept Michael's date corrections, however). If Michael, or anybody else, can explain what's trying to be said here, then great. --Camembert


 * Michael just removed the above without response (also removed a note I left him on his talk page). I'm putting it back (for my own benefit as much as anything else) and I'll continue to remove the stuff he's adding unless it's explained. --Camembert

On the Nazi revert
I happened to read the Nazi edit before the revert. I just thought I'd chime in on why I think the revert was a good decision, though I didn't do it. Personally, being a long time Slayer fan and having had seen them 20 times in cocnert, I have never heard the Nazi criticism leveled on them. Even in Germany, where I saw them twice, where there is a hyper-sensitivity to all things Nazi, I never encountered that criticism. In their defense anyway, describing someone as a "sadistic butcher", as Slayer describes Mengele in "Angel Of Death" is hardly an endorsement. Further, when you read the lyrics to "Behind The Crooked Cross" you see that they are as critical of the Nazi program as anyone.

Metal bands, due to the graphic subject matter in their songs, are continually maligned for positions they have never taken. No one has ever claimed that George Romero advocates raising the dead to feed on the living because of his zombie movies. Creating art about something is not the same as advocating it. If the christian bible describes the exploits of Satan, it doesn't make it Satanic. Because of all that, adding baseless criticisms to this article is pointless.TheChin! 13:53, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Araya is not even caucasian (he's amerindian); How the hell could he be "Nazi"? ...that's a stupid claim, but I still don't understand the writer's comment about Angel of death being misunderstood, it's too PC; I mean, Nazism is "Evil", it's therefore normal to find it praised in Metal.--Agurzil 21:21, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

I don't believe Slayer are Nazis, but it seems silly to suggest that because Tom is not Caucasian that he couldn't possibly be racist. The comparison with Agnostic Front was interesting because of the two bands receiving negative press, although AF's early lyrics are far more questionable. The cover of "guilty of being white" probably didn't help because Ian Mackaye was also accused of being racist when it came out, so Slayer must have known it wouldn't have helped their position. Still Rammstein did the same thing when they used the film Olympia by Leni Riefenstahl in the video for Stripped.--Paul_Tew 03:45, 24 Jan 2006 (GMT)


 * About the nazi and racial stuff, since when hispanic (you know it comes from "Spain") ancestry forbids you of being a nazi sympathizer? "He's not caucasian so he can't be racist" but being racist is disliking other races, what does caucasians have to do with anything? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.66.178.80 (talk • contribs) 01:40, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Death? ;)
Aren't they playing death metal, instead of trash? Or at least trash/death? ;)

They have influenced the Death metal, but they do not play it.--Agurzil 23:12, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Slayer is without a doubt thrash metal. If you want death metal, look at Cannibal Corpse.

People classify them as death metal because they sing about things like death - M3tal H3ad

Is Jeff Henneman Jewish?
I read it somewhere, but I couldn't find a biography anywhere. There are many dumb neo nazis who think it's white power music.


 * he is NOT jewish

Question
Is "desactive" even a word? Found no results for it on Dictionary.com. (Referring to the bit in Statistics about status.) --Dalkaen 08:27, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

Jokes
The "Rotating Drummers" section says: "While not suffering the catastrophic disasters that have befallen many of Spinal Tap's drummers, Slayer have seen their share of musicians behind the drum kit." OK, this made me smile and all, but does this kind of jokes belong in an wikipedia article? Rbarreira 02:17, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Probably not, but there's nothing wrong with a little levity. We might as well leave it in. I wouldn't be too disappointed if it was removed, though. --Dalkaen 04:26, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

Tom threatning to leave?
I have searched the history and can not find any information or where it was 'learned' that Tom threatened to leave the band in late 2003 as stated in the article. I believe the information should be removed unless it can be proved correct or state where this 'information' was gathered from. (Sources should always be cited right?)

Dablink
It's getting rather ridiculous. I think Buffy the Vampire Slayer at least should be removed, because why would one search for an article called Slayer if they wanted to find an article about that show? Seems an unecessary disambiguation. Slayers is okay, I guess, but I wouldn't mind if it was removed either. --Dalkaen 21:02, August 24, 2005 (UTC)


 * Seems simpler to start using using - I've started the new page and moved over the paragraph of alternate Slayers. nae'blis (talk) 23:55, 13 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Good idea. I would have done that myself if I'd known about it. -- D a l k a e n T / C 02:10, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Is this really a thrash band
In my mind, Slayer is in every concievable way the same as Death Metal except for two factors. 1: Clean vocals 2: Popularity. I think this should be addressed a little more in regards to classifying Slayer.
 * Their lyrical content may reach death metal levels of brutality, but the music itself is missing several key elements. Death growling, of course, as well as blast beats, are absent. They were an inspiration to death metal, but not death metal themselves, I don't think. -- D a l k a e n T / C 07:27, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

It's hard to say where the line between the two is drawn, but I'd say they're thrash, but anything heavier then they are is death. Another argument against them being thrash is that they dont really sound like the other thrash bands of the 1980s, especially the other 3 main ones (Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax) so it can go either way I think. Then again, genres dont really matter as long as you like the music, do they?
 * Slayer is Thrash Metal. They might be an inspiration for many Death Metal bands (or indeed, for any genre, in an ideal world), but they are most certainly not DM.Shandolad 15:22, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

discography
As far as I can tell, the discography repeated on each member's page is identical to the one here (or should be). Someone more of a Slayerologist than I is welcome to step in, but I think this should follow IainP's lead on Megadeth and Anthrax in splitting out the discography into its own page at Slayer discography, or just maintaining it here in this section. Individual side projects should still be listed for each member, but we're asking for redundancy errors this way. Any objections? -- nae'blis (talk) 14:50, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

You wanna do it or should I? ;) IainP (talk) 15:37, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm in the middle of a database redesign here at work, so if you've got the time/inclination, you're the greater expert on this sort of transfer. i was going to wait a week or so to make sure there wasn't anything funny about this list. -- nae'blis (talk) 16:30, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Gimme a day or so. We're doing conversions at work at the moment and some muppet's decided to schedule 5 in two weeks. Meant to be one per week... IainP (talk) 19:28, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Done. I'll update the band members' pages, too IainP (talk) 22:14, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Should the singles section on the discography page really be set up that way.I mean none of Slayer's singles have ever charted? SOADLuver 13:46, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Footer template
Modified from the Iron Maiden (featured article) template, hope its popular, if not, revert --PopUpPirate 00:05, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Latin American and White Supremacy
Saying that they wouldn't be considered white by white supremacists seems pretty silly for two reasons. First, plenty of Latin Americans are white in the same way many Americans are white; they have European ancestry. Second, the caveat is unsourced. Has the band itself argued this? have their defenders? If so, it should be sourced. Until then, I deleted it. 69.209.196.144 20:28, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

They arent considered white by white supremesists for the simple reason that Latin Americans usually have non-hispanic ancestors, including the natives the spanish found in south america, and especially black ancestors, which gives them the darker skin. So they aren't considered white. In fact, if you arent 100% european ancestry, you arent considered white by them. 216.162.86.15 18:14, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

White supremacist groups exist in many Latin American countries, and there are even small Latino-oriented white supremacist groups existing in the Eastern USA (although none that I know of in California). The majority of US Latinos are of mixed ancestry, who would obviously be unwelcome in white supremacist groups, but there are white Latino members of American racist groups. As to Slayer's links to racist groups, they are nothing more than unsubstantiated rumor, but the persistence of these rumors to this day makes them worthy of note, particularly if the article includes denials of these charges from the band, which would help keep the article NPOV.


 * But surely if it is a rumour then it cannot be classed as fact and hence breaks the NPOV. I've yet to hear any rumours that make me believe they are a racist group. Paul Tew 14:57, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * "They arent considered white by white supremesists for the simple reason that Latin Americans usually have non-hispanic ancestors, including the natives the spanish found in south america, and especially black ancestors, which gives them the darker skin. So they aren't considered white. In fact, if you arent 100% european ancestry, you arent considered white by them."

What the hell are you talking about? Latin Americans ARE white. They come from Europe, they're white. VelvetKevorkian 07:29, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

What the hell are YOU talking about? Latin Americans could VERY well be of Native (Indian) descent. That would make them pretty much not White. Latin Americans don't all come from Europe, just as all North Americans don't.

Disputed Tag
I added a disputed tag to the Violation of Innocence section. Not sourced and there is no evidence this group exists. Group is on AfD, if it is deleted, this section should be removed.--Isotope23 20:21, 21 February 2006 (UTC)


 * S'fine. Given that the topic is "ultra-secret" or whatever, I'd be curious as to the sources of it. However, I just tidied up the spelling and left it as-is for someone else to query. Thank you for volunteering ;) IainP (talk) 12:11, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Minor edit
Changed "change the way slayer was written" to "alter the Slayer logo"


 * I barely noticed that they'd done that. The copy of the album I have comes in a black cardboard sleeve with the normal CD and case inside. The outer sleeve has the original Slayer logo in thin white print and that's the image that stuck with me for the album. IainP (talk) 09:21, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Ahm
"An argument is made against these theories both by Slayer's supporters and what seems to be definitive proof that these critics are wrong in their accusations."
 * both by... the fans (the supporters), and...?

Another thing: it is ok to expect from a fan or from supporters to think. But at the same time it is wrong to sing about a 'hot topic' without elaborating it... at least a bit. I understand that Slayer, as a band spreading whatever 'message' they have, probably isn't racist but for the sake of all the idiot racists who listen to Slayer thinking 'hell yeah!', they need to be adressed. Good to read that Tom spoke out about what he thought was obvious from the beginning: that not specifically accusing Mengele in 'Angel of Death' - but simply projecting the horror of... it/him - isn't a lack of accusation in his opinion. LIllIi 23:55, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

National Day of Slayer?
Well, we all love Slayer, but is this really worth it's place? If they manage to collect five hundred thousand rabid slayer fans and smash up a city, then it might be relevant to Wikipedia, but I'd doubt that the current entry is. I say remove. Shandolad 15:24, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Not official or sanctioned by Slayer or any organization directly involved w/Slayer. Jtravis

I disagree. National Day of Slayer is a known internet phenomema at very least. With Slayer fans however, it's a very important day for them as it "celebrates" Slayer as an established national act. I say it stays as it.

Can you help me with the images for the spanish version, every time i submit the imaages they are erased immediately, because i don't have the license, so can you help me?

I think it should be added. It's a significant date and will only happen once. Could also mention that some radio stations played Slayer all day. M3tal H3ad 07:52, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Shouting Slayer @ Festivals
My addition to the article was deleted the second time now. Even when it was deleted there was no explaination why. First of all is the described behaviour a fact that can be observed on several occasions. The german Slayer Article reports about this too. As a matter of fact this i not just a european beavior as i experienced it by myself even in Baltimore, MD. I really don't see a reason why something like this shouldnt be on the english wikipedia too By now i will add the few lines and if there going to be deleted again i would really appreciate if somebody could tell me why. --NackteElfe 16:31, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * We do need a published/"reputable" source for this (I'm not saying you're not being honest, NackteElfe, just that we need some way to back it up outside ourselves). The best thing I acn think of is that it figures largely in the start of the first track on Disc 1 of Decade of Aggression. Anybody got anything better from a concert review in a magazine, maybe? -- nae'blis (talk) 16:44, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * well i tried to do some reserch with google but is kinda hard to find evidence

Here is a Portland Mecury article (never heard of them though ;)) http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/Content?oid=32106&category=22187

And heres a british forum with a discussion about the behavior http://www.bloodstock.uk.com/_bs2/community/viewtopic.php?t=4407&start=30&sid=e2412454c9f958a7d20a763fc62ebad1 Of course is a forum not a really reliable source but it would be a lot of work to fake a discussion like this. And the only other proof i have is the german wikipedia where this behavior is described for a long time and had never been removed... Wish i had more ;) --NackteElfe 17:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Well i am probably not the only one who knows about people calling slayer... Somebody just added some information to my text. ;) --NackteElfe 21:18, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I deleted this as well, because it does not happen often enough to be considered a legitimate phenomenon and the sources cited above are somewhat flaky as to the consistency of the chant. I've been to many shows where Slayer was on the bill, and every once in awhile a Slayer fan will go nuts and start shouting, but this is only slightly more fanatical than someone yelling "AC/DC!" in a parking lot before a show–or "Pantera" or whoever you like.

The chanting during the opening bands' sets is worth a mention, I think, but again, you don't really see it happening at shows Slayer is not a part of. "Free Bird" is the only example I can think of where this actually happens, has been documented and parodied, and is a part of folklore. I would suggest creating a "Trivia" header in the main article and adding an abbreviated version of your sub-header there. 24.99.241.173 05:30, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Whoa fellas, I've been to about 50 metal concerts in the last two years alone (Mostly Danish underground), and we really do have a regular trend of yelling "Slayer!!!" at the band during the soundcheck, between songs and after the last song. This is not something which I would call a chant, but more like random outbursts which are used to tell the band that they're delivering a great performance. The reason why I mention a number of concerts is to establish the burden of statistic onto the people who deny a consistency. I have never heard anybody yell any other bands name during a concert except for "Slayer" - Well, except for the occasional pun at the worse bands, in which case we yell something like "Avril Lavigne" or a similar artist whose musical talents we deem to be less than average. Daniel A. A. 07:20, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't think Slayer's racist but...
I don't think Slayer is racist for a second. Many of their songs are about evil, and some about evil racists and racism. They do not champion racists or racism however. Nevertheless, I take issue with the article's suggestion that Slayer couldn't be racist because Tom Araya is from Chile and Dave Lombardo is from Cuba. This is absurd - being from Latin America doesn't mean you can't be a white supremacist. There are many whites in Chile and Cuba, and many of them are in fact racist. As a matter of fact, the population of Chile is predominately white. And while there are persons of mixed race in all Latin American nations, Arya does not appear 'mestizo' or 'mulatto'. Cuba's population, by contrast, is mostly black or mulatto. However, Dave Lombardo is clearly white. I agree the band's not racist, but this has nothing to do with the fact that Arya and Lombardo were born in Latin America.

Thanks, rocket scientist. First of all, in case you weren't paying attention for the last 20 years, it's ARAYA. Secondly, he Mr. Araya has very dark hair and a dark complexion. This would lead me to believe that he could very possibly be meztiso or mulatto. That aside, you're right about the racism comment. Anyone can be a racist. I don't belive they are, thgouh.

Actually, Tom looks very much like a mixed Native/Spanish/African mestizo because of his curly dark brown hair. The article on Chile's demographics says that many Chileans are around 57-60% European and 40-43% Amerindian. Anyone looking at Araya can tell that he definitely part Native American. His look can easily be explained by the possibility of having one parent who is mulatto (African mixed with European) and one mestizo parent but with mostly Amerindian blood.

POV
I just went through and revamped the entire page. There are still some grammatical miscues and POV issues, but I think most of the major problems are gone. Personally I think the "Current" subheader should be incorporated into "History," but I'll leave that up for debate. Wangoed 13:43, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Concert Photos from Slayer Show
Daniel - Why are you removing the external link to the concert photos from last nights Slayer show that I took? Our site is certainly less commercial than some of the other links like VH1 and this would be valid content

Ian Mackaye
Not to be anal or anything, but the Ian Mackaye reference (when he said 'That's so offensive to me') was not in reference to Slayer, but to a Polish fan who believed that Guilty of Being White was a white power song.