Talk:Slide guitar/Archive 1

Classic bluesmen
Using a butterknife isn't in this article at all, and is a noted way to play, e.g. T-Model Fordz — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.172.116 (talk) 04:30, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

The article really should mention names of some of the classic bluesmen who invented this technique (or at least were the first recorded examples). -- Jmabel 16:18, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)
 * Since no one seems to be following through, I've just ventured to blindly assert this in the article. I'm not expert here & don't have names of who may have originated the technique, but it certainly was used by both Robert Johnson and Mississippi Fred McDowell. -- Jmabel 18:28, Aug 5, 2004 (UTC)


 * I added a date and instrumental origin, but I don't have one for the first recording. That would be interesting to have. Hyacinth 03:55, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Diddley-bows
The reference to diddley-bows belongs here somewhere, but not within the discussion of the history of open tunings. It's nonsensical to claim that open tunings derive from a one-stringed instrument... --RobHutten 13:20, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Slides
This is from the old "Bottleneck guitar" article. It is uncited and I'm not sure if a list of specific DIY slides is that notable or informative or whatever. Hyacinth 03:55, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * "Other items used for slides and noted in album notes or instructional books include other types of glass or metal tubing, a long 9/16 inch (14 mm) socket wrench socket, an old glass Coricidin pill bottle, and, in the case of Mississippi Fred McDowell 'a beef bone, filed with a file'."

speaking from experience and my own personal knowledge of slide guitar, potentially anything tubular can be used as a slide, considering that slide guitar started from using old bottle necks I think it's worth noting other kinds of slides. However, i think it's worth mentioning for any future slide guitarist the most suitable kind of slide and portray these other kinds of slides as unorthodox, the limitations behind using pill bottles and sockets is that you need to lay your fingers behind the slide in order to prevent overtones (these sound high pitched and not too good) and also certain alternatives will give a very poor dampened sound for example if you were to play with a highlighter pen. I think the article should say "a glass slide can give a full soud, a metal slide'll give a tinny sound (etc.) alternatively sockets and pill bottles can be used but they can be very dubious. Do you agree?--Mikeoman 11:43, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't call the sound of a metal slide "tinny". It tends to provide a louder sound.  However what we are getting into here is individual preferences; also this is not meant to be an instruction book for would-be slide players.  An important difference is between slides which fit over a finger, and allow use of the other fingers for fretting, damping overtones etc., and objects which must be gripped.  This applies only (obviously) to guitar held in the normal position. I agree that this article is about technique rather than the instrument, but that's what it is - a technique which can be used on almost any string instrument (cf. Gus Cannon's "Poor Boy" using slide banjo).  Instruments specifically-designed for slide playing should have their own section.  121.99.84.227 (talk) 20:18, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Butterknife!!!198.228.201.153 (talk) 16:57, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Needs rewrite/repair
Overly condensed from previous slide guitar and bottleneck guitar articles; has lost all differentiation between slide/bottleneck playing in regular guitar position, and playing slide on lap or flat position. Gzuckier 20:14, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

A slide guitar is not a bottleneck guitar. The article should make reference to fretted and fretless guitars and positions they are held. Also the use of vibrato bars in guitarists such as Don Felder.--Fuwah 12:09, 7 May 2005 (UTC)


 * The article seems to be about a playing style - not about the actual instruments used. The actual instruments can be a regular steel-string guitar (electric or acoustic); a steel-string with the nut and bridge raised (in this case it can oly be played with a slide); a dobro guitar; a steel-guitar or lap steel (the ones typically used in country music) and the Weissenborn. Whatever your instrument of choice, its about draging something across the strings. Well, that's a big list! Do we need it here? I don't think fretless guitar playing qualifies as slide - its cool, but maybe it deserves its own article? It has more to do with experimental and micortonal stuff than with bluesy roots. Vibrato or tremolo bars are not "slide" as such, and if understood this way we would qualify half of '80s heavy players as "slide" - absurd, no? --Modi 09:43, 12 May 2005 (UTC)


 * i have added the name of a veery famous person playing slide :: David Gilmore of THE Pink Floyd (anon 21 July 2005)

Image
What is the theory under which the Rough Guide photo here is fair use? -- Jmabel | Talk 03:50, July 27, 2005 (UTC) Gzuckier 04:18, 27 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I've removed the picture. The fair-use criteria would certainly work for an article about the album, but we can't use it as an illustration for another article.   — KayEss | talk 04:22, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Lightnin' Hopkins
I removed Lightnin Hopkins as a prominent slide player, since he was not. He might have played some slide though I don't know of any recordings. He was a magnificent guitar player and perfect example of no compromise real acoustic blues (fingerstyle) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.118.56.179 (talk • contribs) 29 Aug 2005

Open D
I added a link to the Open D article I wrote. DanG 12:01, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Hendrix
To my knowledge, Jimi Hendrix did not ever play slide guitar while playing the Star Spangled Banner, and I'm 100% sure he didn't at Woodstock, which is his most famous rendering of the Star Spangled Banner. He got his "wailing and screaming" sounds primarily with the Whammy Bar. Because of this I've removed the reference from the article. Jhayes94 02:32, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd just like to say that Jhayes is correct, I think it's worth noting though as recently I saw a video of Hendrix playing at wood stock, that he was wearing something on his hand that could he confused with a slide, but it's not(i'm not sure what it is but it's not a slide). i've read the tab and there are a few of trills(hammering on or off is very difficult with a slide due to the weight), as Jhayes said, he used the whamy bar and he did slide towards the begginning, but it's important to note that he only did so with his fingers and he didn't use a slide.

Structure
This edit removed much of my work to reorganise the article to give it a more consistent structure. It moved a lot of text into a vague "introduction" section which just resurrected the problems of the old version before my reorganisation, which is that there is a huge chunk of unstructured text which is hard to navigate.

I have restored the structure I gave the article, plus my own edits to the text itself (PLEASE don't do reverts like that again!), but also preserved the intervening edits where these made sense, and carefully added the material I deleted (which I felt was either redundant or unencyclopaedic) which U Go Boy saw fit to reinstate. I've also put the history section at the bottom. I thought it was better further up, but apparently others disagree. Hairy Dude 16:28, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Race bias
This article sure does talk disproportionately about white people in describing a playing technique of African American origin. - Jmabel | Talk 19:01, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

While I tend to agree with you, I suspect it's reflective more of the racial demographic of contemporary slide players than it is of any actual collective racial bias of the contributors. It's almost definitely the case that there are currently more white than black active interpreters of African American traditional music, slide guitar or otherwise. --RobHutten 02:39, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed. But it's definitely currentism. Most of the great innovators of the technique were Black. - Jmabel | Talk 19:36, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Question
Is there a difference between slide guitar and lead guitar, or is slide just a style of playing lead? I ask because it confuses me when I read that Duane Allman played both slide and lead guitar with the Allman Bros. Cubs Fan 04:08, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Orthogonal terms. Slide guitar is a technique, using a slide rather than the fingers of one's left hand on the fretboard. Lead guitar means guitar as a lead instrument, usually involving a good deal of single-note playing, distinct from the more chord-oriented rhythm guitar. Rhythm guitar typically combines with the bass and drums to form the rhythm section of a rock band. - Jmabel | Talk 01:34, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Slide type info
Added the info that is always interesting to me about the hawaiians bringing the sound over in the 1900s, and added name of the person who invented the ceramic/porcelain guitar slide. Very encouraging. Really like the info about Sonny Landreth. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Brassys (talk • contribs) 26 November 2006.


 * Do you have citation for Hawaiian origin? I've always presumed Black Southern origin. (It could, of course, be independent discovery.) - Jmabel | Talk 07:19, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Improving the history bit
The history bit I think is mostly good, however I think the focus is entirely on western music, I was reading somewhere that in India there are guitarists who have their own interpretation of slide guitar, where they sit down with a classical guitar on their lap facing upwards and the play slide, i've never heard this music however and I was wondering if anyone did and if they could contribute? --Mikeoman 12:15, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Somebody please do something about the discrepencies. In the intro, someone mentions that indeed slide guitar usage was most likely invented by the Hawaiians. However, in the History section, someone mentions that africans were using a similar tool to create similar sounds most likely first. some one please get to the bottom of this. I thought this website was somewhat reliable until I started reading a realized it was run by...us!(gasp!)

I may've misworded my question, so i'll rephrase it. Are there examples of how slide guitar has been used in a national/regional music? for example as the last guy said about Hawaiian music styles, in African music, or in aisian music?--Mikeoman 18:41, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * deleted a couple of laudatory phrases clearly inserted by fans of a specific artist or song 121.99.84.227 (talk) 20:06, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Different techniques
different bands, such as goldcard, pond or the flaming lips, also use the slide on the picking hand as a way to create the sound of orchestration. maybe we can work that in somehow, if maybe someone knows more about the topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.24.136.240 (talk) 07:14, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

John Paul Jones
I don't believe he is playing a bass guitar in this photo. I believe it is a Mellobar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jowston (talk • contribs) 05:01, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

No Hawaiian players?
Frank Ferera signed with Columbia Records in 1915 and Joseph Kekuku was touring the United States performing and teaching as early as 1904. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.72.244.157 (talk) 01:44, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Why no mention of Hawaii?
There was a massive fad for Hawaiian music in the late 19th century that included the use of slide (what would become known as "steel") guitar. This predates and probably was the grandaddy of almost all use of slide guitar in (mainland) American music - especially in country and western swing. Though it may be argued that blues slide developed separately, this article makes it seem that slide guitar sprang from the blues tradition alone, which is patently false. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.243.100.239 (talk) 05:24, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree. Hawaiian guitar recordings were available in the US South in the early 20th century (it was a craze, as noted), and were undoubtedly heard by blues players, with a strong possibility that they influenced blues techniques.  One might also cite the remarkable slide version of "St Louis Blues" by the (probably white) Jim and Bob (effectively slide jazz guitar) as a product of Hawaiian influence. 121.99.84.227 (talk) 08:00, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Blues Guitar
is blues guitar playing really synonymous with slide guitar? First time I ever knew there was no difference in 35 years of guitar playing. Stub Mandrel (talk) 15:43, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

fireslide
An approach to slide guitar that does not use a bottleneck worn over a finger is to use the index and middle fingers to hold a weighted BIC® lighter (sold as the fireslide ) against the strings. The middle, fourth and fifth fingers are used to fret between the slide and the bridge, allowing the player to perform sliding barred chords and scales.

67.193.179.147 (talk) 22:38, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

10/2017 edits to lead
"The lead serves as an introduction to the article and a summary of its most important contents... It should identify the topic, establish context, explain why the topic is notable, and summarize the most important points... Apart from basic facts, significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article."
 * MOS:LEAD includes:

Much of what appears in the current version of the lead should be in the main body of the article and have inline citations to reliable sources. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:40, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi, Ojorojo, I am currently working on the body of the article to ensure it is includes information alluded to in the lead. I have added several sources. Best --Eagledj (talk) 15:01, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The lead has been greatly improved. The History section could use some similar trimming – it has far too many rock examples and is almost entirely unreferenced.  Also several of the existing refs seem to be blog-type user generated, links to retail sites, or are dead. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:22, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks—have thinned it out and deleted some weak/dead refs. It's coming along. While I have you, would you weigh in on this merge proposal discussion of lap slide guitar per the template above that article?--Eagledj (talk) 18:45, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
 * More good trimming. A couple of points: Winter's style was well-developed before his association with Waters (this isn't mentioned in the AllMusic ref) and I'm not sure why Rogers is included (both come later). There could be more discussion of Nighthawk, Earl Hooker, Waters, and James (the Mount Rushmore of electric blues slide). Also, it may be worth mentioning the Stones' "Little Red Rooster", with Jones' slide, was probably the first song with a blues slide to reach number one (December 1964).  Bloomfield and Bishop with Butterfield might also merit a mention as among the earliest blues-rock using slide (1963–1964).  "The" isn't capitalized mid-sentence for "the Beatles" and the song titles should be in "quote marks", rather than italicized. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:59, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * , Great points, I will certainly include them. Now looking at the "Tunings" section, considering whether to delete it entirely. It is boring and is covered elsewhere HERE. Also, the lap slide has be redirected to our article.--Eagledj (talk) 19:12, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, it should probably be added (briefly) to Technique, with the main ones in prose: Standard, open G, and D. Raising the pitch with a capo, etc., may also be noted, but listing them all is for the Open tuning article (which needs a lot of work) . —Ojorojo (talk) 16:47, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Take another look, particularly at the "Lap slide guitar" section. I am being careful in my words to reconcile "steel" and "slide" terminology, and need feedback on it. I didn't put capo in, but I believe the other suggestions are incorporated. I debated about Weissenborn being in, but it has diehard fans. Took out Roy Rogers. Great article HERE, got most of them.--Eagledj (talk) 19:01, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Too cool, even if he borrowed Mt. Rushmore (?!?). I've never heard of Jerry Douglas, but he is obviously a player.  Sounds more like a steel player.  The section has very few references, which definitely needs to be fixed. I'll have to look more at Weissenborn. —Ojorojo (talk) 22:25, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
 * You've managed to take a mess of an article and turn it into something well-researched, balanced, referenced, and very readable. The lap slide section looks good, but may have a bit too much technical info. If you're interested, a more thorough review might be part of a WP:GAN. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:38, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi Ojrojo,Yes, I'd be interested in a WP:GAN. I have been through the review process once before on THIS, which was nominated by Fuhghettaboutit, who has been my mentor. Your collaboration on the Slide guitar article really helped me. Will you nominate it?  Incidentally, your Red House (song) was a textbook GA. Congratulations. Best--Eagledj (talk) 14:11, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The GAN instructions indicate a preference for someone who has "contributed significantly to the article". You've added all the text, found the refs, etc., while my contribution has been limited to the few comments here.    questioned why you haven't nominated before.  Maybe it's time. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:17, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Guitar slide redirect, hatnote
I just added a hatnote linking to slide (guitar technique) & pick slide, because guitar slide redirects here. "Slide guitar" unambiguously means what's described here. But while "guitar slide" can obviously refer to the object used to play that way, at least my first association with this search term would be the general technique of sliding on the frets with fingers, used only on some notes — which is ubiquitous in Pop, Rock, and any other style I can think of. (Unfortunately, slide (guitar technique) currently just redirects to glissando... It is already linked on the Slide disambiguation page, though, and it deserves its own article/subsection.)

A hatnote on top of this article doesn't feel like the ideal place for disambiguating this, but the current situation seems confusing to non-guitarists, and I couldn't think of a better solution — at least as long "Guitar slide" links here (which, again, seems reasonable but not ideal)... Suggestions?

(Also, I was struggling with wording the hatnote in a way that is short but doesn't use too much terminology.)

Sorry if I'm being too wordy here — I'm somewhat new to WP and not very familiar as a guitarist with playing slide, and I don't want to come across as disrespectful, downplaying the importance of this style, or wanting to clutter this lovely article. Toxide (talk) 11:08, 10 October 2018 (UTC)