Talk:Slow-Carb Diet

Kefir
There is a contradiction in the article, in that it says the diet recommends kefir, but also says that dairy products other than cottage cheese and ghee are banned. My undertanding of The Four-Hour Body is that Ferriss only adovcates kefir (like milk and yoghurt) for people trying to build muscle mass and doing serious weight training. Solri (talk) 07:58, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I've made the appropriate emendations. Pengliujian (talk) 10:55, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Starvation mode?
Why does this article say that a day off is advisable to prevent the body from going into starvation mode, when the diet does not restrict the intake of permitted foods?


 * I suppose you'd have to ask Ferriss that. But I assume it's because there are no concentrated carbs. Pengliujian (talk) 08:47, 22 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I don't know, but I believe it is to prevent ketosis. Spikesdad (talk) 18:13, 9 October 2016 (UTC)


 * I doubt it, given that ketosis would accelerate the effects of the diet. It's to increase metabolic rate, as in a cyclic ketogenic diet: "Paradoxically, dramatically spiking caloric intake in this way once per week increases fat loss by ensuring that your metabolic rate (thyroid function and conversion of T4 to T3, etc.) doesn't downshift from extended caloric restriction." (4 Hour Body p. 75) Pengliujian (talk) 18:57, 9 October 2016 (UTC)


 * You are absolutely correct, he does talk about T4 and T3 levels as the reason, not ketosis. You won the argument. But, aren't T3 levels shown to be related to ketosis? I'll shut up now.
 * True, but "The drop in T3 does not appear to be linked to a drop in metabolic rate during a ketogenic diet." Pengliujian (talk) 11:48, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Criticisms/Responses
This article is lacking any information on any reviews/criticisms of the diet. Ozgod (talk) 14:04, 3 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I typed ["slow-carb diet" criticisms] into Google Scholar and got nothing relevant; in fact, "slow-carb diet" got nothing relevant. As far as I can tell there are no serious scientific criticisms of the diet, or, for that matter, endorsements; it simply hasn't been studied seriously. Ferriss has his own study, but its hardly peer-reviewed journal quality - he asked volunteers to track their results using Lift, but the sampling method invalidates it (these were all people who were enthusiastic enough about the diet in the first place to volunteer for an experiment, so we can expect a significant placebo effect). I've seen plenty of criticisms of the diet in blogs and forums, but nothing substantial. Most reviews of the diet I've seen, whether positive or negative, were either along the lines of "I tried the slow-carb diet, and this is what happened" or simply dismissed it because it contains X or doesn't contain Y. Pengliujian (talk) 06:34, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Update - the reason for this apparent dearth of scientific/medical studies is that the term "low glycemic index" is generally preferred to "slow carb", though a few use both. For this reason I have suggested moving the bulk of this article to Low-glycemic_diet (and the rest to The_4-Hour_Body ). Pengliujian (talk) 19:39, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Are you seriously proposing that when researchers write about low GI diets, they have in mind that the subject is interchangeable with a trademarked fad diet with its gimmicky cheat days &c. ?! And if so, your evidence is .... ? Alexbrn (talk) 19:49, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
 * POV much? Your opinions on whether the diet is gimmicky or a fad are not relevant here; it is not our job to evaluate the efficacy of diets. Your crusade to rid the world of fad diets and quack therapies may be laudable, but it does not belong in Wikipedia. But to answer the question - the term "slow-carb diet" is not trademarked AFAIK, and if it is, it can't have been trademarked by Tim Ferriss because it was already in use well before he wrote The 4 Hour Body (as you may have noticed, I edited the first paragraph to acknowledge that fact). A slow-carb diet is a diet that restricts carbohydrate intake to slow-acting (i.e., low GI) carbohydrates. It is therefore, by definition, a low-glycemic diet. Pengliujian (talk) 06:26, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
 * It's trademarked. It's obviously a fad diet (and we have sources of this obvious fact). Pretty much everything you are contending is wrong. Alexbrn (talk) 06:54, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I checked the trademark thing. "The Slow-Carb Diet" is owned as a trademark for "On-line journals, namely, blogs featuring information on nutrition and weight loss" by Krisa Performance LLC. I assume this is Ferriss's company, since they also have the trademark to the names of his books and indeed his own name. It does not cover other publications; indeed, as the article points out, the term "slow-carb diet" seems to have been first used in Harv and Patricia Haakonson's book Slow Carb for Life and a number of books published since then have "Slow Carb" in the title. Pengliujian (talk) 07:05, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Note - repetition here is due to an editing conflict. I wrote the last comment at the same time Alexbrn was writing hisPengliujian (talk) 07:05, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter if the term "slow carb diet" is trademarked or not. The term is used outside Ferriss's writings, and was in use before he adopted it. It also doesn't matter if it is a fad diet, since even if it is (and even if we could agree on a definition of "fad diet") it is a widespread and much-talked-about fad diet, and thus worthy of mention. You are pushing a personal agenda here. Pengliujian (talk) 07:11, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

"... widespread and much-talked-about fad diet ... " <- except you've yet to provide evidence it passes WP:GNG at the AfD. 07:18, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Basic Principles section
The section on basic principles mixes unmarked quoted material and summary, and duplicates much of what appears elsewhere in the article. As a result, it reads more like a "how to" article, and seems out of place here. I suggest keeping the first part and moving it up the article, since it's an excellent summary of the diet, and losing the rest or moving elements to the relevant sections. Pengliujian (talk) 11:07, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * OK, I did this.Pengliujian (talk) 08:51, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Multiple Issues Warning
I've removed the "multiple issues" template at the beginning of the article, as I don't think these problems exist any more.Pengliujian (talk) 08:51, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Contested deletion
I think this article needs more work, but definitely should not be deleted, since Wikipedia has a slew of articles on different diets, and this seems to be a fairly popular one. Earlier versions certainly did look more like promotional or "how to" material; I tried to rectify that with several substantial edits, but didn't want to go so far as to rewrite the whole article, not least because other editors have put in so much work. I'd be happy to edit more, but would be reluctant to do so if the article is doomed to deletion. Pengliujian (talk) 14:16, 15 March 2017 (UTC)


 * As an afterthought, the content could be slimmed down (no pun intended) and added to the article on Low-glycemic index diets. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pengliujian (talk • contribs) 14:30, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
 * "No pun intended"?! You were handed the perfect opportunity for a pun and you only accidentally took it? For shame! For shame!!! ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants   Tell me all about it.  00:21, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Merging
The article has been flagged for merging with The_4-Hour_Body (which also needs improvement). I'm prepared to take on this task, but it will be a while before I can start, as I have a heavy workload at the moment. Pengliujian (talk) 08:26, 24 March 2017 (UTC)