Talk:Smallville: Chloe Chronicles

Relationship between Andrea Rojas, Acrata, and the Angel of Vengeance
Debuskjt: You removed my cross-reference to Acrata, saying "Uncited, should be stated in article, not as trivia". I'm not sure exactly how you'd like to see this relationship represented. Moving some text into the main body of the section, sure, though I didn't see any really good place to put it since it's not part of the plot of the series. Citing, however... absent an explicit statement from the creators, how can we know whether or not the two characters are related? On their face, the facts that they have the same name and culture (and the fact that the Smallville Andrea says that her mother was part of an organization called Acrata) seem to suggest that the one character is loosely based on the other. (I say "loosely" because their backstory and powers are very different.) Would you be happier with a less definitive statement along the lines of "has the same name as..."? Note that, for instance, Cyborg asserts that the Smallville character and the DC character are the same character, when they have similar differences in their backstories and appearance.

It does seem appropriate to include some kind of cross-reference here. I'm not picky as to the exact form. Can you suggest something?

I considered a substantial reorganization of the Acrata page, renaming it to Andrea Rojas and splitting it into a section describing the DC character and a section describing the Smallville character, but that seemed like a lot of work for relatively little value. See my comments on Talk:Acrata.

Jordan Brown 01:07, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * You say Acrata is "slightly similar." Based on what? Says who? See WP:OR and WP:CITE. You stated to yourself... "seems to suggest." Someone outside of Wikipedia has to suggest it and you need to cite them. - Debuskjt 03:56, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

At some level I understand what you're saying, but I suspect that in this case that way lies madness. Has anybody ever said, in a citable way, that (say) the Lois Lane from Smallville is related to the Lois Lane from previous Superman stories? Consider other lesser characters. Run says that Bart Allen is the Flash. Jinx links to Mister Mxyzptlk as if they're the same person, yet the two characters are very different. Commencement links to Fortress of Solitude. Once we grant that Smallville is a variant of the Superman story, the default conclusion would seem to be that names that are the same between the two stories are related to one another. Do we ignore this obvious linkage except in cases where there's a citable statement from the creators linking them, or do we establish linkages (with appropriate caveats) where we observe them? It seems like the reader is best served by noting the linkages.

In the context of WP:OR, it seems like in many cases here the only materials available are primary sources (the videos and comic books). WP:OR says "An article or section of an article that relies on primary source should (1) only make descriptive claims the accuracy of which is easily verifiable by any reasonable adult without specialist knowledge, and (2) make no analytic, synthetic, interpretive, explanatory, or evaluative claims." OK, that doesn't seem unreasonable. A reasonable adult would agree that Smallville and DC comics both have a female character named Andrea Rojas, and might well agree that she's Latino. We could note that fact, and leave it at that, but it seems desirable to go a bit further and compare them a bit. When does material stop being descriptive and start being evaluative? We can say that the Smallville Angel of Vengeance wears black and red but that Acrata wears black and green; is that descriptive or evaluative?

Would you be happy with a statement along the lines of "Andrea Rojas is also the real name of Acrata, a DC Comics character with a different back story and different abilities. Another connection between the two is that the Smallville Andrea mentions that her mother was part of an organization called Acrata." I'm not happy with that exact wording, but does that satisfy your desire to avoid OR?

If something along those lines doesn't satisfy you, what would, that would note the relationship? Jordan Brown 07:01, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I think something along the lines of what you propose would work really well in complying with OR. - Debuskjt 14:24, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Episodes
3 series are mentioned, but how many 'episodes' are there, and how long is each one? - Matthew238 04:53, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Smallville: Vengeance Chronicles
Looking at IMDb, the Vengeance series is not really a part of the Chloe Chronicles, which has two listed series, and Smallville: Vengeance Chronicles has an entirely different entry. Perhaps Smallville: Vengeance Chronicles should be split off into a new page. Luthor210 14:45, 27 April 2007 (UTC)