Talk:Smith-Madrone Vineyards and Winery

All winery pages have a place in WikiProject Wine. Once the article passes through it should also be added to List of Napa Valley Wineries.
 * This confuses me. Are you saying that being a winery is an endrun around WP:N?  WikiProject Wine doesn't have the ability to suspend projectwide consensus on notability. Movingboxes (talk) 15:52, 30 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure what you're asking or saying here.  I'm a fairly new author trying to play by the rules, and contribute to a project I'm enthusiastic about. Because you don't feel it meets notability doesn't mean that's how other people see it. Exactly what do you feel doesn't meet notability? --Lucy456 (talk) 15:57, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Community consensus on what is and is not notable can be found at WP:N (see WP:CORP for company specific information). Your article, to my eyes, doesn't even make a claim of notability for this winery, which is why I tagged it for speedy deletion.  When you say "All winery pages have a place in WikiProject Wine," I wanted to point out that WikiProject Wine is part of the overall Wikipedia project, so WikiProject Wine doesn't have the right to make up new notability consensus for the rest of the encyclopedia.  Is there independent, third-party coverage of this winery?  That goes beyond how you see it or how I see it--it's right to the heart of what notability means here.  Please let me know if you have any more questions. Movingboxes (talk) 16:01, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, there is independent third party coverage of this winery. They are noted in the external links, most notably appellationamerica.com. Help a new author out. What do I need to do or change? --Lucy456 (talk) 19:05, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * appellationamerica.com is a sales site. If they're selling the product, then they're not an independent source.  Did you take a look at WP:CORP?  Here is part of it:  The "secondary sources" in the criterion include reliable published works in all forms, such as (for example) newspaper articles, books, television documentaries, and published reports by consumer watchdog organizations.  You need stuff like that.  Movingboxes (talk) 19:07, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Absolutely I can reference those sources. Thanks for the clarification. --Lucy456 (talk) 19:25, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey, I removed the speedy deletion template and replaced it with "notability" so the article won't be deleted while you locate sources. Movingboxes (talk) 19:29, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I appreciate that. I should have the sources up within 24 hours. --Lucy456 (talk) 20:03, 30 August 2008 (UTC)