Talk:Snowflake (gorilla)/Archive 1

Untitled
Why "infamously"? RickK 07:14, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Floquet de Neu, Not Pass Copito de nieve. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.129.86.207 (talk) 23:13, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:SnowflakeGorilla.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:25, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Testicles and Trivia
I removed the bit about Snowflake's testicles being removed for purposes of making more children. I couldn't find any sources on it, and it might have been vandalism. If not, feel free to add it with a proper source. I also got rid of a bit of trivial unsourced material, mainly pop culture references to Snowflake, some of which came off to me as original research.--CyberGhostface (talk) 01:59, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was to move the article to Snowflake (albino gorilla)

Requested move
This article should be at Floquet de Neu. Not only the ape was found by a Catalan primatologist, but it also has lived most of its life in Barcelona (Catalonia), and in a zoo whose working language is Catalan.

The Google Test used by the admin who moved this article to its current name is only an indicative test, and cannot be used as absolute proof. The article should either be called Floquet de Neu (native name) or Snowflake (original English name given by National Geographic). Copito de Nieve is downright wrong on an English-language wikipedia. Leptictidium (mt) 12:55, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Really take your point. Can't even remember any oficial use of the spanish name since it has always been Floquet de Neu.--Jey86 (talk) 19:27, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Could an admin please move the page to its correct title per the arguments listed above? Leptictidium (mt) 10:43, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Oppose move to Floquet de Neu. For a start, it is a translation of the name originally given to the gorilla in 1966. Any quick newspaper archive check would confirm this. Copito is used in English language media (BBC, Reuters, etc). It has significantly more relevance than a politically motivated choice, as Catalonia regional government insists on translation of all names and toponyms into Catalan (a policy that is neither relevant nor binding to Wikipedia). Barcelona Zoo's official website gives the gorilla's name as Copito de Nieve / Floquet de Neu / Snowflake / Nfumu Ngu (in this order). So, the argument that Floquet de Neu is the preferred name is leaking badly... Asterion talk 15:58, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * In that case, the article should be moved to "Snowflake", which as you point out is the original name of the gorilla. If the original name of an animal is in English, why should it appear in Spanish in an English-language encyclopedia? And I assure you this primate's name was not "translated" by the Catalan regional government – they have got better things to do than to impose names on an ape. Calling Floquet de Neu "Copito de Nieve" is tantamount to calling Girona "Gerona" or Parc Güell "Parque Güell". Leptictidium (mt) 16:21, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * In the first drawings that Sabater made in Africa in 1966 he put the inscription Floquet de neu: Collection Sabater Pi at the University of Barcelona. It is not a late stage translation. Floquet was translated to English and Spanish. --Vriullop (talk) 16:59, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe so, but the name is still not the most common one. That is the issue at hand here. Once again, reliable sources are needed to prove that Floquet is used in English language to refer to the albino gorilla, not just a curiosity of the sort "also called by some". On the other hand, Copito is used by BBC Online, New Scientist, Associated Press (AP), The Independent or The Daily Telegraph. Regards, -- Asterion talk 09:27, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Such a leak argument saying that it was the name originally given since no use of catalan was allowed by then! Using this argument Girona should still being Gerona as (I'm sure) this was the only name used by english sources in the 60's. And so on... Some must notice that things have changed--Jey86 (talk) 10:41, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * If Gerona were the most used name in English language, this would be the term to use. In the same way that we have Seville and not Sevilla. Please, let's stick to the debate at hand. I invite you to present any evidence that Floquet de Neu is commonly used in English language to refer to the albino gorilla. Regards, -- Asterion talk 11:39, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You have provided no evidence whatsoever that "Copito de Nieve" is the correct name in English, you just keep presenting "proof" that it is the 'most widespread name. I am giving you the following reference that "Copito de Nieve" is neither the correct name nor the original one in English:
 * Riopelle, A.J., "Snowflake the world's first white gorilla", National Geographic 131:442-8, March 1967
 * Besides, your argument of "most common name in English" does not even stand the test: see Snowflake (32,000 hits in English language) vs. Copito de Nieve (1,400 hits in English language). I can also show you references of reputed sources using Snowflake.
 * MSNBC
 * BBC News
 * PBS
 * Discovery Channel
 * ABC News
 * Snowflake
 * New York Times
 * Leptictidium (mt) 12:35, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * For a start, do not put words in my mouth that I never said. Copito is more used in English language that Floquet. Secondly, despite this and the fact either Copito or Snowflake are the two most common names in English media, you insisted on having the article moved to Floquet de Neu (not Snowflake). Aside this, the article was subjected to a continuous tendentious campaign by some anonymous editors to remove every single mention of the name Copito and replacing it with Floquet, resulting in breaking many of the interwiki links (as Copito de Nieve is the name of these articles in most of the other language wikipedia editions). So what is it going to be? As the article cannot be moved to Snowflake (this is a disambiguation page and this is not its most common meaning), the options to assess should be either Copito de Nieve or Snowflake (albino gorilla). Regards, -- Asterion talk 13:00, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * PS: Google hit count using search keywords albino gorilla + name: |countryGB&rlz=1C1CHMG_en-GBGB291&q=floquet+albino+gorilla+-copito+-wikipedia&start=10&sa=N Floquet: 11 results, |countryGB&rlz=1C1CHMG_en-GBGB291&q=snowflake+albino+gorilla+-copito+-virus+-wikipedia&start=120&sa=N Snowflake (exc. wikipedia sources): 123 and |countryGB&rlz=1C1CHMG_en-GBGB291&q=copito+albino+gorilla+-wikipedia&start=20&sa=N&filter=0 Copito (exc. wikipedia sources): 92 results. -- Asterion talk 13:00, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

So, if some people argued to use Snowflake or Floquet de neu, and the others argued to use Snowflake or Copito de nieve, and also Snowflake is the most used word... we can have a consensus! This article should be called Snowflake (albino gorilla), only because Snowflake is presently a disambiguation page.-Loquetudigas (talk) 16:12, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I insisted on moving the page to Floquet de Neu because it is the original name of the ape. But, if that is impossible because it is rarely used in English, then Snowflake is the second option, and not Copito de Nieve. I don't see the problem with moving the article to Snowflake (albino gorilla), we've done it already with Knut (polar bear). Finally, the breaking of the interwiki links is no problem, as the bots will have corrected them in a matter of hours. Leptictidium (mt) 10:58, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * While I disagree with your reasons for wanting to choose the Catalan language name, I believe that my suggestion to move the article to Snowflake (albino gorilla) is agreeable to all parties, therefore the best possible choice. As I cannot see the point of delaying things, I have been bold and closed the Requested Move petition myself. Regards, -- Asterion talk 19:38, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Full likeness pic
CAN SOME ONE GET A FULL LIKENESS PIC AND DA PAGE NEEDS ANOTHER IMAGE ANY WAY!!!!4DJONG (talk) 20:31, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * What is "full likeness" supposed to mean? Even toes included? The subject of the article seems very well-depicted to me, and I would not mistake the picture for anyone/anything else's likeness. PS: PLEASE STOP YELLING.   SMcCandlish    Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs.  07:44, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Floquet de Neu (Catalan for little snowflake) is incorrect.
In the line "he was then nicknamed Floquet de Neu (Catalan for little snowflake) by his keeper Jordi Sabater Pi.[1]" This is wrong it means "new snowflake" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.214.17.140 (talk) 14:55, 23 May 2011 (UTC)


 * It is the above comment which is incorrect. The Catalan for snow is indeed neu and the anonymous contributor above is confusing it with nou (new).


 * I lived in Spain during the 1960s and I clearly remember a TV presenter called Félix Rodríguez de la Fuente who appeared many times on TV talking about the story of this albino baby gorilla. In the 1960s of Francisco Franco the Catalan language was not encouraged very much and the gorilla was always referred to as "Copito de Nieve" in all regions of Spain, including Catalonia. What his keeper might have called the animal in private was not relevant. I am all in favour of the Catalan language being promoted and encouraged but I disagree with attempts within Wikipedia to re-write history to fit in with linguistic pride, separatism or arrogance. Ant501UK (talk) 15:12, 12 February 2012 (UTC)


 * The asteroid is named "Copito" but the real name is Floquet? Be serious. Please, let´s keep Wikipedia neutral, and don´t let some people use it to prop-up nationalistic agendas and rename facts and historic events. I reverted the name back to the original "Copito de Nieve", and the other clearly biased changes.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.39.6.32 (talk) 22:33, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Chinchilla?
I'm pretty sure Snowflake is a "typical" albino. Most albino humans have blue eyes, and I'm pretty sure gorillas are more related to humans than rabbits. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.36.133.70 (talk) 02:25, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Wording

 * The official story is that an ape specialist, Jordi Sabater Pi, found the animal in 1966 in Ikunde, in the Spanish colony of Spanish Guinea, modern-day Equatorial Guinea. The only albino gorilla known to man, he was captured outside Nko, in the Equatorial forest of Nko, near Rio Campo, in the Rio Muni region, on October 1, 1966, by Benito Mañé, an ethnic Fang farmer, who had killed the rest of his group (all charcoal black in color) in order to obtain this unusual albino specimen.

This almost makes it sound like it is acceptable to kill an entire family in order to kidnap their children. This wasn't acceptable in 1966 and it isn't acceptable now. If these gorillas were protected at the time, that needs to be said. If they weren't protected, then that also should be stated. Viriditas (talk) 10:32, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

The "official story"
You don't start out a section with "The official story is that . . . " unless later on your intention is to present something that contradicts this official story. Did I miss this?HuskyHuskie (talk) 17:03, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Only albino gorilla?
Speaking of official stories, I distinctly remember when Snowflake was discovered and made known to the world, that his mother was also said to have been albino, but that the discoverer killed her (supposedly fearing her to be a ghost or something). Was that a BS story he made up? Is that why there is a reference here to an official story? HuskyHuskie (talk) 17:08, 15 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Given gorillas travel in groups, I highly doubt he saw one white gorilla and thought it was a ghost. I don't think "he" made up the ghost story, the "official" story of his slaughtering the whole family of gorillas seems to be the definitive one. I'm not sure the person who "found" snowflake made any attempt to cover the fact he had slaughtered the group.  FYI, that's also how poachers get baby monkeys for exotic pets. They slaughter the tribe and take the babies.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.244.230.178 (talk) 22:08, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Skin cancer?
Can anyone spell out what exact diagnosis was the disease? There are hundreds of skin cancer out there. Epithelium (talk) 15:17, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Inbreeding paragraph
HuffPost is NOT an acceptable source for this sort of thing. Granted, I understand people assume that they got their info from somewhere else that supposedly is legitimate, but that's not how encyclopaedic citations work.

I fixed up the sentence about the genetic data shared by Snowflake's parents, and deleted the rather amusing suggestion that he could have been the product of mating between "aunt and niece". The person might have been going for "aunt and nephew", but given I have dubious sources myself, I'm unwilling to make the assumption that this is accurate.

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