Talk:Sobraon (ship)

Wikipedia entry – Entry under Sobraon vs Tingira Geoffrey Stephenson (GDS) stands by all of his statements and references. Certainly the RAN is entitled to have its own reference to its own naval ship (HMAS Tingira) but such service was for only 15 years of an overall life of 75 years. Maybe the RAN should limit its commentary to the specific 15 years of the ship’s RAN service and link to a ‘Sobraon’ entry covering the other 60 years. Bastock is not a reliable source.

GDS chose not to seek to amend incorrect references in the Tingira because of the large number of errors and omissions, including: Tingira entry: •	Focus on Tingira service – only 15 of 75 years. •	Many errors •	Excludes under ‘Operational history’ (1) heading for NSS Sobraon (20 years) and (2) Elmslie. •	Under ‘Career Australia – Fate’ should state ‘sold to a private buyer, W M Ford, in 1929’. •	The ship was broken up in 1941 not while she was still owned by the federal government, and only after further use (refuge for homeless men during the Depression) and attempts to preserve the ship as a museum/exhibition. •	Sobraon - a tea clipper Tingira entry – reference Bastock: – ‘racing other ships back to England’. Sobraon was never in the tea trade – eg. she left Sydney on the homeward leg of her maiden voyage in April 1867 with more than 5000 bales of wool and 200 passengers. •	Launch date – November 1866 vs April 1866: Tingira entry – references (1) Bastock: states ship ‘launched in 1866’ (no date or month stated) and (2) Aberdeen Ships Database: states ‘launched November 1866’ – but this is clearly wrong. Other references in this entry are also wrong eg. (1) ‘Devitt & Moore … bought her in 1870’ (actually 1872), (2) the ship was ‘sold to the NSW government in December 1891 (actually January 1891), (3) ‘decommissioned on 30 June 1927’ (actually 27 June 1927), (4) ‘eventually broken-up after WWII’ (actually 1941) GDS entry: ‘launched at Hall’s shipyard at 2.00 pm on Tuesday April 17, 1866 and christened the Sobraon by Miss Hall.’This is a quotation from the Dundee Advertiser published on 18 April 1866, page 4. The ship was viewed by Cpt O’Reilly in London on 5 September 1866. •	Maiden voyage – 9 September 1866 vs 21 November 1866 Tingira entry – reference Bastock: states voyage began on 9 September 1866 and arrived in Australia on 4 February 1867. In fact the voyage took only 75 days, so the ship did not depart until November 1866. If the launch date was November 1866 (Aberdeen Ships Database) it was not possible for the maiden voyage to start on 9 September, or even in November 1866. •	Tingira ‘decommissioned’ vs ‘paid off’ Tingira entry – reference Bastock: states Tingira paid off on 30 June 1927. This is supported by Naval Historical Society of Australia: ‘Australian Naval History on 30 June 1927 – HMAS Tingira (training ship) was paid off at Sydney.’ GDS entry: reference Naval Historical Society of Australia: ‘So on 27 June 1927 HMAS Tingira was decommissioned.’ Identical wording was included in the Naval Historical Review, September 1979. Maybe the crew were not ‘paid off’ until 30 June 1927.

BookPOD (talk) 06:36, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * That's not a reason to have two separate article on the same subject, which we rarely have on Wikipedia. Issues with articles should be fixed at the article, not by creating a new one on the exact same subject. All the tone issues and such with this article still stand too. I'm not sure what you mean by "... the RAN is entitled to have its own reference to its own naval ship..." Manxruler (talk) 10:19, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * On the issue of this article, you refer to yourself as Geoffrey Stephenson. Are you the author of the book which is almost the only source you used when writing this article? Manxruler (talk) 01:34, 8 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Perhaps a redirect is in order. BookPOD can add his data to the relevant section of the HMAS Tingira article and discuss sourcing issues on its talk page. clpo13(talk) 03:34, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
 * A redirect is apparently the way to go. Who should carry it out? Manxruler (talk) 17:24, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Since there are no other volunteers, I'll go do the redirect now. Manxruler (talk) 18:35, 11 September 2015 (UTC)